Murli points on Ram

[pbkindiana]

sachkhand wrote:
Sakar Murlis: Adulterated by Dada Lekharaj.
Advanced Knowledge: Is also adulterated by Dada Lekharaj.

But the most important thing is,
Advanced Knowledge: according to you is spoken by Veerendra Dev Dixit (Rambap according to PBKs) who is a human soul too.
Sakar Murlis: Is spoken by Shiv, the Supreme Soul.

i would like to apprise you that most PBKs have their own churnings and despite our differences in our churnings, we have complete faith in Baba Dixit as the soul of Ram and will become Prajapita. The most fundamental aspect is we believe in Baba Dixit as the practical form of ShivBaba and when Baba Dixit has attained the 100% nirakari stage, the true Gita will be sermonized and paradise will be prevalent.

So, it is better to read and understand Sakar Murlis, where there is guarentee that it is spoken by Supreme Soul Shiv ( although is interfered by Dada.) and wherein the Supreme Soul has taken the responsibility of any mistakes done by the interfering soul Dada Lekharaj.

Shivsena, the others and you have been reading Sakar Murlis for years, so can you tell me whether you have received the truth about this study or have you received the inheritance by just saying Baba as it is said "say Baba and you will receive the fragrance of inheritance."

Whereas in Advanced Knowledge a human soul (Dada Lekharaj) is interfering another human soul i.e., Veerendra Dev Dixit (according to you)who himself is not complete or not 100% emulating Shiv at present according to you.

Any knowledge that is being interfered by a non-100% nirakari stage soul is not the true Gita and will never lead to sadgati. You can continue reading Sakar Murlis till your last breadth but you will not achieve sadgati as it had been interfered by a soul who has not attained the 100 nirakari stage.

Are you not being arrogant while condemning those who ask questions based on the points given in Sakar Murlis (which are spoken by Supreme Soul Shiv) and Dada Lekharaj(whose responsibilty has been taken by Supreme Soul)?

I don't condemn those who ask questions in a civilized way, unlike you who had laughed at me when i answered your questions in a different thread. Don't expect me to take insults lying down. Also please don't vouch for shivsena as he is very capable of retaliating.

indie.

[shivsena]

when Baba Dixit has attained the 100% nirakari stage, the true Gita will be sermonized and paradise will be prevalent.

Dear indiana.
You and i both agree that real Gita will be narrated in future when Ram=shiv. I call that single entity as Ramshivbaba and you call it only ShivBaba. And you say that Gita will be narrated by incorporeal Shiv only. So how do you differentiate between Ram and shiv, when both have merged together and become one entity.

shivsena.

[shivsena]

Dear indiana.

Since you have asked Murli proofs to prove that Ramshivbaba is Gita -sermoniser, i am producing two Murli points which clearly say that.

Murli 5-6-02 says: "Tum atma Ramshivbaba Shri Shri ki mat par chalte ho" [meaning: 'You souls(108) follow the mat given by Ramshivbaba Shri Shri.']

The above Murli point clearly points out that 108 souls will get Shri Shri Ramshivbaba ki mat in future when Ram becomes 100% incorporeal like shiv, and so Ramshivbaba ki mat can be easily be called sacchi Gita (Gita-sermoniser).

Murli 10-12-05 says: "Tumari budhi mein koi bhi deh-dhari Bap-teacher-Satguru nahin hai. Tum jaante ho videhi ShivBaba hamara bap teacher Satguru hai" [ meaning: "In your(108) intellect, no bodily person(Baba Dixit) can be Bap-teacher-Satguru. You know that bodyless ShivBaba(meaning one who has no body-consciousness) is Bap-teacher-Satguru."]

Whenever the word ''Tum'' is used in Murlis, it always refers to only 108 rudra souls(not 9,16,000), who are king quality souls and who are koto mein koi who recognise the practical personified Ramshivbaba (not bindi ShivBaba) and they will never accept any bodily guru(baba dixit) as Bap-teacher-Satguru, nor they will accept bindi ShivBaba (like BKs and PBKs) as Bap-teacher-Satguru. Videhi ShivBaba in the above Murli does not mean bindi Shiva( who has no body at all), but means that one(Ram paramatma) who has lost all body-consciousness and become 100% incorporeal stage like incorporeal Shiva. It is also said in early cds by Baba Dixit that parampita=Shiva and paramatma=Ram(one who is supreme among all 600 crore human souls) and so Parampita paramatma means Ram+shiv (Gita sermoniser).

So from both the above Murli points it is very clear that it is Ramshivbaba (Ram+Shiva = one single entity) who is Gita-sermoniser and Bap-teacher-Satguru.(combined)

shivsena.

[pbkindiana]

shivsena wrote:
You and i both agree that real Gita will be narrated in future when Ram=Shiv. I call that single entity as Ramshivbaba and you call it only ShivBaba. And you say that Gita will be narrated by incorporeal Shiv only. So how do you differentiate between Ram and Shiv, when both have merged together and become one entity.

only the nirakari stages will merged but not their souls. Eventhough Ram will emulate Shiv's nirakari stage but it said as Shiv-Shankar and not Shankar-shiv, so it is the incorporeal ShivBaba who will sermonize true Gita. The body is one but there are two souls and so their roles are different as it is said in MU 10/4/99 -- "Shiva God, the highest on high, whereas Shankar is a subtle deity. So how could Shankar be merged together with Shiva? Their roles are different."
It is also said that Shiva speaks to soul conscious children, so when we have attained constant soul-consciousness, our souls will know who is speaking - whether it is the soul of Shiv or the soul of Ram.

indie.

[pbkindiana]

shivsena wrote:
Since you have asked Murli proofs to prove that Ramshivbaba is Gita -sermoniser, i am producing two Murli points which clearly say that.

Murli 5-6-02 says: "Tum atma Ramshivbaba Shri Shri ki mat par chalte ho" [meaning: 'You souls(108) follow the mat given by Ramshivbaba Shri Shri.']

The above Murli point clearly points out that 108 souls will get Shri Shri Ramshivbaba ki mat in future when Ram becomes 100% incorporeal like Shiv, and so Ramshivbaba ki mat can be easily be called sacchi Gita (Gita-sermoniser).

I disagree with you equating mat with true Gita. Mat and knowledge are two diffferent aspects. This Murli quote (11/2/03) -- "The directions of Brahma are also remembered, even by following his directions, the Father becomes responsible. You should also follow the directions of the mother because the mother becomes the Guru." When it comes to mat, then there are two or three personalities giving but when it comes to knowledge, then a single soul will give.

So i still want a single Murli quote that says "Ramshivbaba is the sermonizer of Gita" whereas i can provide you few Murlis quotes such as:
( MU 11/12/02) --"The God of Gita is Shiva from whom we receive the inheritance of heaven." and

(MU 10/2/04) -- "Only the Incorporeal Shiva is the bestower of the knowledge of Gita, the bestower of the divine eye."

Murli 10-12-05 says: "Tumari budhi mein koi bhi deh-dhari Bap-teacher-Satguru nahin hai. Tum jaante ho videhi ShivBaba hamara bap teacher Satguru hai" [ meaning: "In your(108) intellect, no bodily person(Baba Dixit) can be Bap-teacher-Satguru. You know that bodyless ShivBaba(meaning one who has no body-consciousness) is Bap-teacher-Satguru."]

Whenever the word ''Tum'' is used in Murlis, it always refers to only 108 rudra souls(not 9,16,000), who are king quality souls and who are koto mein koi who recognise the practical personified Ramshivbaba (not bindi ShivBaba) and they will never accept any bodily guru(Baba dixit) as Bap-teacher-Satguru, nor they will accept bindi ShivBaba (like BKs and PBKs) as Bap-teacher-Satguru. Videhi ShivBaba in the above Murli does not mean bindi Shiva( who has no body at all), but means that one(Ram paramatma) who has lost all body-consciousness and become 100% incorporeal stage like incorporeal Shiva.

only the eight will recognize the practical form of ShivBaba for them to become bap-samaan. When it is said bodyless ShivBaba, then it denotes the unlimited Father who does not have a body of His own enters into the appointed Chariot and plays the role of Bap-Teacher-Sadguru. Also provide one Murli quote that says Ramshivbaba is Bap-Teacher-Sadguru whereas this Murli quote (19/1/04)-- "Only the Trimurthi Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul Shiva who is also the Teacher and Sadguru grants salvation to everyone at this most auspicious sangam yug."

It is also said in early cds by Baba Dixit that parampita=Shiva and paramatma=Ram(one who is supreme among all 600 crore human souls) and so Parampita paramatma means Ram+Shiv (Gita sermoniser).

it is amusing that you who loves to condemn advanced knowledge is using it to corroborate your views. So you condemn advanced knowledge when you find it not helpful to you and you say that Baba Dixit is playing double-standard but using his churnings. This Murli quote (15.9.08) -- "The Father too says: "Om Shanti," I too am a soul but i am called the Supreme Soul because I always reside in the Supreme Abode. I do not enter the cycle of birth and death." By this Murli quote, it denotes that Shiva is also referred as Supreme Soul as it is always said as "Supreme Soul Shiva and not Supreme Soul Ramshivbaba."

Mu 16.9.08 -- "The Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul Shiva is also called the flame."
Can you provide any Murli quote that says "parampita=Shiva and paramatma=Ram(one who is supreme among all 600 crore human souls) and so Parampita paramatma means Ram+Shiv (Gita sermoniser)"

indie.

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.
Dear Indiana,

The most fundamental aspect is we believe in Baba Dixit as the practical form of ShivBaba and when Baba Dixit has attained the 100% nirakari stage, the true Gita will be sermonized and paradise will be prevalent.

Similarly the most fundamental aspect for BKs is that they beleive in Avyakt Bap-Dada and consider The Avyakt form itself to establish Paradise. And people in India have their own gurus whom they beleive to be the practical form of God. With this kind of attitude I think there is no need for sharing views and discussing knowledge.

Shivsena, the others and you have been reading Sakar Murlis for years, so can you tell me whether you have received the truth about this study or have you received the inheritance by just saying Baba as it is said "say Baba and you will receive the fragrance of inheritance."

Yes, I have had many experiences and I got clarifications supporting my experiences in the Sakar Murlis. Based on them I have my own churning and views. I hope you have no objection for that as you too differ in some aspects even with PBKs.

Any knowledge that is being interfered by a non-100% nirakari stage soul is not the true Gita and will never lead to sadgati. You can continue reading Sakar Murlis till your last breadth but you will not achieve sadgati as it had been interfered by a soul who has not attained the 100 nirakari stage.

The above reasoning can be applied even to PBKs who are hearing from a non-100% nirakari stage soul of Virendra Dev Dixit (according to you) and seeing those VCD. I am not saying that all the points raised by Virendra Dev Dixit are wrong or irrelevant. But I think the explanation given to them now by him are not correct. Even Virendra Dev Dixit have raised thse points after reading the Sakar Murlis os Shiv through Dada Lekharaj.
I think it is better reading Sakar Murlis (although interfered by soul of Dada Lekharaj) where responsibility is taken by Supreme Soul Shiv, as is said in the Murli. But reading the Murlis should not be just mechanical, but with real interest and love and thirst for understanding ShivBaba.

I don't condemn those who ask questions in a civilized way, unlike you who had laughed at me when i answered your questions in a different thread.

Surely, one should be civilized in asking questions, similarly those answering the questions too should be civilized and
rational.

Don't expect me to take insults lying down.

If you are not able to forget that incident and continue to hold grudge against me (without my fault), then surely henceforth I will not reply to your posts.

Also please don't vouch for shivsena as he is very capable of retaliating.

Are you vouching for Arjun, bansy, Andrey and other PBKs on the forum? (actually I do not know the meaning of vouching, but based on the circumstance I think it means speaking on behalf of)
I think I have the right to putforth my views and ask questions to get clarifications about their views in this forum. It is OK if someone does not want to clarify.
And I think I am not asking illogical and irrational questions. And I even do not say that those ideas and views which are not completely clarified at present are false. May be at the right time we will get clarification to them. I am just sharing my views and gaining from others views and Murli points given here.
Thanks.
sanjeev.

[shivsena]

it is amusing that you who loves to condemn advanced knowledge is using it to corroborate your views. So you condemn advanced knowledge when you find it not helpful to you and you say that Baba Dixit is playing double-standard but using his churnings
indie.

That is exactly what i am trying to say, that the teachings of Baba dixit are not uniform and consistent; he teaches one thing in 7 days Advance Course and then he says something in one cd and another thing in another cd (which many PBKs agree). God ShivBaba would never teach such contra-dictory things to his children.

The main teaching of advance knowledge rests on one fact ie. "Ram is prajapita" and then to say in cds that Ram is paramatma and then to say in another cd that Ram is Sangamyugi Krishna and Ram is Shankar (Murli says that ''Shankar ko prajapita nahin kahenge''), is a clear indication that Baba Dixit (personified Maya) is purposely trying to confuse the PBKs and trying to test the PBKs whether they are able to think independently or not and have the guts to oppose him or not.(Maya se samna karne ki shakti); only those who have a deep study of Murlis and Vanis will have the courage to oppose personified Maya.

shivsena.

[pbkindiana]

indiana wrote:
it is amusing that you who loves to condemn advanced knowledge is using it to corroborate your views. So you condemn advanced knowledge when you find it not helpful to you and you say that Baba Dixit is playing double-standard but using his churnings

shivsena wrote:
That is exactly what i am trying to say, that the teachings of Baba dixit are not uniform and consistent; he teaches one thing in 7 days Advance Course and then he says something in one cd and another thing in another cd (which many PBKs agree). God ShivBaba would never teach such contra-dictory things to his children.

dear shivsena,
you have misunderstood what i have quoted. What i meant is - you love to condemn advanced knowledge but you are using Baba Dixit's work to corroborate your views. What a low mentality you have. I have never come across any members of this forum who condemn advanced knowledge but using the same knowledge to support his views. what sort of a personality you are who doesn't have any regards for Baba Dixit but using his work to support your views.

The main teaching of Advanced Knowledge rests on one fact ie. "Ram is prajapita"

it is a fact.

is a clear indication that Baba Dixit (personified Maya)

first you say that brahma Dada lekraj is Maya, now you are saying that baba dixit is Maya. You like to twist your views just to benefit yourself. Only a crooked mind has such a mentality.

only those who have a deep study of Murlis and Vanis will have the courage to oppose personified Maya.

it is said "anything that is seen with these physical eyes is Maya" so those who have a deep study of Murlis and Vanis will recognize the Maya within ourselves and try to conquer it so that we shall attain the eye of the intellect to see anything.

indie.

[pbkindiana]

sachkhand wrote:
If you are not able to forget that incident and continue to hold grudge against me (without my fault), then surely henceforth I will not reply to your posts.

suit yourself!

indie.

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.

suit yourself!

Dear Indiana,
I did not understand what it means. So better you make it clear.
And also you have not answered to my other points in the reply.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[pbkindiana]

sachkhand wrote:
I did not understand what it means. So better you make it clear.

You said -- If you are not able to forget that incident and continue to hold grudge against me (without my fault), then surely henceforth I will not reply to your posts.

I replied -- suit yourself.

It means that do not reply if you don't want to.

And also you have not answered to my other points in the reply.

I did not answer because it is irrelevant.

indie.

[shivsena]

The main teaching of Advanced Knowledge rests on one fact ie. "Ram is prajapita"
it is a fact.
indie.

Is this fact that "Ram is prajapita" ever mentioned in Sakar Murlis.
shivsena.

[pbkindiana]

shivsena wrote:
Is this fact that "Ram is prajapita" ever mentioned in Sakar Murlis.

All the important points have been deleted from the original Sakar Murlis, so there is no direct evidence to proof that Ram is prajapita. Ask yourself who is powerful to become prajapita -- is it the soul of Ram or the soul of Brahma alias Krishna. It is also shown in bakti that Ram, his queen and his subjects but is there in bakti where Krishna, his queen and his subjects is depicted. I am not so good in Indian mythology, so i don't know whether I am right or wrong regarding whether Krishna and his queen ruled his subjects in his kingdom.

So if there is Ram who ruled his subjects in bakti, then there should be a prajpita who will rule his subjects in Confluence Age as it is said bakti is based on whatever has happened in sangam yug.
Also there is a Murli quote --"Prajapita is called Jagadpita."
So can the soul of brahma Dada lekraj become Jagadpita when it is said "this brahma is your mother."

indie.

[shivsena]

So can the soul of Brahma Dada lekraj become Jagadpita when it is said "this Brahma is your mother."
indie.

Dear indiana.

It is said in Murlis :" prajapita brahma mata bhi hai, toh pita bhi hai, toh baccha Bhai, toh banni bhi hai''. And "Ram is parampita paramatma". That is why there is a saying in the world "Child is the Father of man" (meaning mankind). Ram can never be a child(rachna) of Shiva.

So prajapita's part can only be played by Krishna's soul who will be playing various parts in future and Ram will be spiritual Father combined with shiv in future; that is why it is said in Murlis "ShivBaba(rachieta) ki mahima alag aur Krishna(rachna) ki mahima alag."

The whole confusion arises only when you try to seperate Ram from shiv; if you see them as one single entity then things become crystal clear.
shivsena.

[shivsena]

Dear pbk brothers.

Sharing a important Murli point about "Ram and Ravan".

Murlis 4-2-02 says: "duniya wale naa Ram ki, naa Ravan ki biography jaante hain; din prati din Ravan ki pag badti jaati hai; duniya patit hoti jaati."
[ meaning: ''The world (ie pbk world in behad ka sense) neither knows Ram's biography nor knows Ravan's biography ; day by day Ravan's influence keeps on growing (in the pbk world); the world becomes impure(with adulterated advance knowledge) "]

The above Murli clearly says that no one knows about who is personified Ram and who is personified Ravan in the pbk world and the world keeps on deteriorating under the influence of Ravan who keeps on giving impure adulterated knowledge.

The above Murli also proves that Ram and Ravan are two different personalities and not the same as advance knowledge propagates.

shivsena.