Shivsena, if you profess that Brahma alias Krishna is Prajapita, then what do you say to this Murli quote below:-shivsena wrote:
So prajapita's part can only be played by Krishna's soul who will be playing various parts in future
Dear indiana.pbkindiana wrote: MU 2.9.03 -- "There would surely be Prajapita Brahma, the Brahmaputra, the God of knowledge."
indie.
Just hope that you will manage to get the Hindi versions of this quote as soon as possible so that you will not miss the bus to get a seat in the rosary of 108. Anyway even if you come across this Murli quote, it will not change your mindset that Brahma alias Krishna is Prajapita. For your information, I got this Murli quote from a bk friend who allows me to read the Murlis. Since you do not believe this Murli quote in English translation, then i feel i am wasting my time posting English translation of Murli quotes which is not to your satisfaction.shivsena wrote:
I have never read any Murli point like which you have quoted.
Maybe you have read only the English translation and i would like to read the original Murli in Hindi before i comment on it.
Doesn't Ram become equal to Shiv, thus Ram can also be considered as ShivBaba.Again the above point raises many queries.
If prajapita is God of knowledge ie Ram's soul then who is ''ShivBaba who is also known as Ram"
Because Ram himself doesn't really know who is He or what his part is before taking the 7 days basic course. If you ask Baba Dixit whether He is Ram or Prajapita or the personified form of ShivBaba, the reply from him will always be "no, I am not!"and also if Ram's soul is prajapita (God of knowledge) then why does HE have to take the 7 days basic course from another ordinary soul
On what basis are you saying that Ram studied the Murlis for 3 years?and why does HE have to study the Murlis for 3 years to realise his part and
Advanced knowledge is the explanation of Sakar Murlis which Shiv spoke in a decode formwhy does HE invent such a Advanced Knowledge which is ambigious and causing conflict
If one doesn't have complete faith in Father and leave him, that will lead to girti kalaa.and taking the PBKs in girti kalaa. This is what i cannot understand.
So according to you, when Ram=shiv, then HE is ShivBaba and prajapita both ....is that what you are trying to say??pbkindiana wrote:
Doesn't Ram become equal to Shiv, thus Ram can also be considered as ShivBaba.
I cannot accept Ram(Gyan surya) taking knowledge from some other soul because i feel that the whole knowledge should emerge in the intellect of Gyan surya Rambap at the right time in this behad ka drama and that is why i am now thinking that Baba dixit may not be Ram's soul at all in the first place and all PBKs have been kept under an illusion by mayavi Krishna.Because Ram himself doesn't really know who is He or what his part is before taking the 7 days basic course. If you ask Baba Dixit whether He is Ram or Prajapita or the personified form of ShivBaba, the reply from him will always be "no, I am not!"
I was told this fact personally by Baba dixit that it took him 3 years ie in 1973 that there has to be another Chariot for revelation of ShivBaba.On what basis are you saying that Ram studied the Murlis for 3 years?
This is what i also used to think before i started studying the Murlis and Vanis; but now i think it is Krishna ki jhooti Gita (well camouflaged) by mayavi Krishna to make Bharat into jhoot khand and take himself and PBKs into girti kalaa.Advanced knowledge is the explanation of Sakar Murlis which Shiv spoke in a decode form.
I think that if one has blind faith on any deh-dhari dharm guru (Baba dixit), then one will certainly go in girti kalaa and that is what PBKs(bharatwasis) are experiencing at present and hence leaving the knowledge and returning back to lokik life. If PBKs were experiencing chadti kalaa then no one would have left Baba Dixit. That is simple logic.If one doesn't have complete faith in Father and leave him, that will lead to girti kalaa.
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Prajapita's part is from the beginning till the end whereas ShivBaba's part begins only when the Incorporeal and the Corporeal's nirakari stages merge.shivsena wrote:
So according to you, when Ram=Shiv, then HE is ShivBaba and prajapita both ....is that what you are trying to say??
It is always said "churn and know who are you and what's your part", so the soul who will become the conqueror of the world should churn first and know who is he and his part. If the soul of Ram doesn't do the 'swardarshan chakradhari', then none will do.I cannot accept Ram(Gyan surya) taking knowledge from some other soul because i feel that the whole knowledge should emerge in the intellect of Gyan surya Rambap at the right time in this behad ka drama and that is
No one is compelling you to believe that Baba Dixit is the Ram soul. Why are you arguing for nothing when you do not know who is the corporeal Chariot of Shiv when it is absolutely obvious that Shiv is unable to establish paradise without a corporeal body. Shiv will never breach His pledge that He will never leave till He has established paradise.why i am now thinking that Baba dixit may not be Ram's soul at all in the first place and all PBKs have been kept under an illusion by mayavi Krishna.
I still repeat that to-date there is no sach Gita in the brahmin world, so neither reading Sakar Murlis can bring anyone to chadti kalaa.This is what i also used to think before i started studying the Murlis and Vanis; but now i think it is Krishna ki jhooti Gita (well camouflaged) by mayavi Krishna to make Bharat into jhoot khand and take himself and PBKs into girti kalaa
To know Shiv is via the corporeal body and only the weak PBKs will leave Baba Dixit. To have the understanding that Baba Dixit still has not emulate Shiv's nirakari stage and the interference of Brahma alias Krishna's soul in advanced knowledge is the most fundamental aspect of this study.I think that if one has blind faith on any deh-dhari dharm guru (Baba dixit), then one will certainly go in girti kalaa and that is what PBKs(bharatwasis) are experiencing at present and hence leaving The Knowledge and returning back to lokik life. If PBKs were experiencing chadti kalaa then no one would have left Baba Dixit. That is simple logic.
Which is the beginning??...is it in 1937.pbkindiana wrote:
Prajapita's part is from the beginning till the end whereas ShivBaba's part begins only when the Incorporeal and the Corporeal's nirakari stages merge.
You tell me first that who do you presume to be the corporeal Chariot of Shiv since you know very well that Shiv is unable to do carry out His task without a corporeal Chariot and also you are aware that Shiv will never leave till He has established paradise in this impure world. So who is that fortunate Chariot whom Shiv will be revealed; as discussing Gyan with someone who doesn't know who is the corporeal Chariot of Shiv is non-beneficial.shivsena wrote:
Which is the beginning??...is it in 1937.
When ShivBaba's part begins in future, what happens to prajapita's part ??
Can you please clarify.
...i cannot understand on which aspect do you think that this point prove that Ram cannot be prajapita or Bharat? see first of all baba had asked us to have a practice of "sakari se aakari, aakari se nirakari phir sakari"....so automatically characters get categorized according to the stages for Ram's soul....shivsena wrote: Murli 12-2-90, ''Ram ek parampita paramatma hai, jisco Ishwar bhi kahete hain aur bhagwan bhi kahete hain"(Ram is parampita paramatma who is also called Ishwar or bhagwan ie God); so how can Ram be prajapita or Bharat??
....hope above answer clarifies this....Murli 12-10-99; "Ram kaha jaata hai parampita paramatma ko, issliye gaya jaata hai Gyan- surya pragata, agyan andher vinash"(Ram is parampita paramatma that is why it is sung when the sun-ocean of knowledge rises then all darkness of ignorance will vanish.)
Murli 14-4-76; ''Ram kaha jaata hai ShivBaba ko'' ; Shiva sees Ram as ShivBaba in the 100% incorporeal stage and is describing his final stage and that is why Shiva has never said in any Murli that Ram is Bharat or prajapita.
dear brother first understand that Shiv+Ram=ShivBaba.....combination of Sakar and nirakar.....now Shiv is always Buddhimanon ki Buddhi...he don't have mann i.e mind.....if he has 'mann' than he falls in category of 'manushya-mann wala'... but it is not so....We were always taught in Advanced Knowledge that just as a soul has mann-buddhi-sanskar, so also the Supreme Soul has mind (mann is Brahma) -- intellect (buddhi is Shankar) and Vishnu is sanskar. Were you not taught these things when you took the 7 days Advance Course?
....dear brother, parmatma is nothing but the title given to a hero partdhari for playing a supreme role that is param role with comparison to all of the human souls.....and this title doesn't stand's for SHIV...this stand's for the Saakaar.....Ram Baap....so it is correct because Ram's soul do possess mind-intellect-resolves....Murli also says, "jaisi atma waise paramatma" (this does not mean that atma is bindi, so paramatma is also a bindi), it means that just as a soul has mind-intellect and sanskars so the Supreme Soul also has mind-intellect-sanskars.
...Shiva says in Murlis that "Main garb se janam nahin leta hun" ; Bap toh aate hi Gyan sunana shuru kar dete hain" (meaning that "I do not take birth through the womb; The Father comes and starts giving knowledge''); So how can Shiva take birth after being in the womb of Advanced Knowledge for 20 years; this is what i am not able to understand.
....dear brother,in murlki it has been said that "mere bindi ka naam shiv hai"....then why you are considering ShivBaba as bindi.....in Murli it has never been told that "mere bindi ka naam ShivBaba hai"....ShivBaba itself states the combination of Nirakar+Sakar.....Shiv+Ram....your usage of word 'Ramshivbaba' is nothing but a confusion.....stick to Murli which says 'ShivBaba'...shivsena wrote:
It has been said in Murlis "Saari mahima Ek ShivBaba ki hai". (meaning: "all the praises are of one ShivBaba")
Now who is this one ShivBaba which Shiva mentions in Murlis many times. Is it bindishivbaba who stays in Paramdham above for more than 4900 years and has no body-conscious for 5000 years and who does not put any effort in Sangamyug... or ...is it the one soul Ram who remains body conscious for almost 4950 years and after reading Murlis and doing purusharth for one birth achieves the 100% nirakari stage like Shiv and becomes personified Ramshivbaba. So who is more worship-worthy and praise-worthy !!! Is it bindi ShivBaba or Ramshivbaba ???
....sorry brother but i have objection....for simplicity let me make you understand through small example...someday by seeing the clouds gathering in sky Father asks us to carry umbrella with us while going out and some other day when sky is clear he asks us not to carry umbrella....this doesn't prove that Father speaks dual.....nope....it is according to the situation,according to the soul how ShivBaba gives knowledge.... because he very well knows how to give knowledge as he is the only supreme teacher.....problem with you is that dear you are not satisfied by the accurate knowledge what ShivBaba gives through the permanent Chariot.....baba had always stated that "Tumko sadaiv yehi samajhna hai ki tumhe ShivBaba padha rahe hai."....so why you are not following ShivBaba's shreemat.....instead of moving from the topic and considering Krishna as the one who is presently leading the Yagya with cruel intention,instead of considering yourself as the one who can directly contact with Ram or Shiv or whatever why don't you pay more attention towards ShivBaba's mat.....if you feel something else than it seems that your manmat is asking you to move away from ShivBaba....True knowledge(truth) never undergoes refining and changing, but it is our interpretation of The Knowledge in the Murlis that undergoes refining over the years as our intellect matures.
So who knows maybe the present method of rememberence is also not the final word and some other method of rememberence will emerge in future.
I did not grasp your question. But from shivsena Bhai's quote I suppose he is asking as to how can the role of Father start after a gap of 20 years. As regards the Murli point that The Father comes and starts giving knowledge, I suppose it applies to the period of the beginning (1936-37) when Father Shiv sowed the seed of knowledge through Prajapita.rudraputra wrote:Arjun Bhai might be able to put some more light on this or can ask from Baba and answer....humble request to Arjun Bhai
....Dear brother,shivsena wrote:
Your queries are quite valid. I have done research and churning about only Ramshivbaba (one who attains 100% nirakari stage = incorporeal Shiv) and i too have similar queries about tretawala Ram and chandravanshi Ram and Ram who failed and the idol Ram who is worshipped in Bhakti. At present i have no answers to your queries.
When Ramshivbaba touches my intellect (as He has done in past) then i will put my views on the forum.
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