Democracy

[andrey]

It is not partial if everyone is happy with his own position and occupies his own seat that is meant for him, that he will never be happier with any other. All are different and are not suitable for every position. Everyone will be happy only wherever is his place, when he fits in the whole puzzle and there is balance and harmony amongst all. We are unhappy because we don't know who we are, who we were, who we will be, where is our place, what is our role.

This is the consciousness of the soul that we now practice. It is just a role that the soul plays. Souls are different actors and can play different parts. The best actor can play any part, good, bad, small, big. Bad actor can play only one type of parts, because he cannot change himself a lot. If we look that everyone is a soul then why should there be partiality. We are all the same. It is said in the Murli that what is this actor that don't knows his part - a foolish actor.

In the stage of the world how many are those souls that know their part? That's why there is this mess and chaos on stage.

[mr green]

:lol:

[fluffy bunny]

An "independent judiciary" means a judiciary that is not put in place by the rulers or ruling party but puts itself into place or is elected ... and can hold the rulers or ruling party to justice

This is in contradiction to say, a dictatorship that choses judges from amongst its cronies knowing that they will do as they say or kills off ones it does not like.

I am sorry andrey, but you are showing your ignorance of the complexities of reality whilst ignoring the real question ... so how is Virendra Dev Dixit going to cope with running the combined BKWSU/AIVV by himself?

More than that, you appear to be forcing us all back into a caste system ... so what will be my position within it? (No need for an answer, it is another "magic wand" question. I know, another wave of the magic wand, or "magic flute", and all the molecules in creation will fall back into their original state).

Democracy is an ongoing process, no one would suggest that we have reached the destination yet. But there have been huge and evolutionary leaps especially in the Anglo-Saxon and Nordic countries, who have, after all, been exploring democracy governments for 1 or 2 thousand years (with a tip of the hat to the Greeks). All the BKWSU has to offer is a heavenly fantasy ... and enough evidence 70 years on to prove they stink to high heaven judged by standards most people in the West would expect as normal.

They are mired in the mould of third-world dictatorship, time warped and run like a local bhaibund ... albeit a relatively benign one. May be.

Even the Jews and Muslims have their own legal systems and courts ... are these more memorials ... are they not much less spiritual and enlightened beings? Ignorant Vyasa or Shudras?

[andrey]

Dear brother ex-l,

So you say to me that i should wait some more 2-3 thousand years, for the evolution of the democracy enought to create it a perfect place? But i want to live well here and now. This body will not last so long. Can you compare something so old and something created for 70 years?

It is said that in Karachi there used to be a sample of heaven. You can see from the story of Dada Chandrahas and whoever else he may be - he will just narrate lovely memories of peace and happiness.

You expect that there will be evolution, but we won't believe you anymore, because even without the knowledge it is so easy to see the signs of catastrophe approaching. Population, environmental problems etc. So there is no need to run this whole big world. In the new world there will not be crime so that there should be judges, be they chosen by the public or put by the king.

There are also many ways of ruling. To give freedom is also a kind of rule. To use force is also a kind of rule. This kingdom is compared to a home. Now hell is at home and home becomes heaven. There is quarelling amongs us - the brothers and we are asked to live with a lot of love amongst us. Now we will not quarrel anymore. It is not so deep a knowledge really.

There is also the practice of controlling the vibrations, one's own body, then the world comes into control. As if you still expect some imposition. Even this knowledge we give for those who may like it. This comparison with democracy is just for to draw the contrast. Still you cannot offer me that democracy will create the world i dream for. Why should we lower our standards and accept - yes, democracy is not a perfect rule, but who and what is perfect. It is no problem, but still we need to have some aspirations for something perfect, some aim, ideology, a dream to start fire in you and make you move, otherwise we are just sitting in incontentment. This perfect, happy world can come only when we forget about others and start thinking only about the self.

[fluffy bunny]

There was not a sample of heaven in Karachi ... that is just sale pitch. The book is a hagiography no where near an objective history. You can sample the same type of heaven by I falling in love with someone too. That is all it was. Falling in love ... a lot of exciting, weird psychic stuff going on and a lot of weird political stuff that made life interesting and made them feel special. Devotees of all gurus, and a few pop stars, would say exactly the same thing.

They were also on one big holiday on someone else's money, for the most part. Hands up who would want to live for 14, 15, 70 years without having to go and work in this world!?! No wonder it felt like a heaven, especially to Hindus in India ...

So you say to me that I should wait some more 2-3 thousand years, for the evolution of the democracy enought to create it a perfect place? But I want to live well here and now. This body will not last so long. Can you compare something so old and something created for 70 years?

Well, one lot are just ignorant human beings trying to sort it out themselves, the other is God inspired, God driven, God controlled ... can we not expect better? I would say there already is better out in the lokik world.

You have to remember, they told me it would be 50 years to Destruction and 50 years of Creation ... so they are past their timelimits. What is the PBK timeframe for the creation? Does it happen in one second? Everything gets worse and worse, even in the Brahmin family, and then in 'one second' heaven appears?

• I am not being cynical, I just want the truth. Can we have a fixed deadline and some guarantees?
  
  They seem to have broken all the promises up until now ... who is to say that in 2036 they will not just turn around and say, "ah, well ... 2036 did not mean 2036 ... it meant 2036 in an unlimited sense!!!"

There is a more than 50% chance that I will be dead by 2036. I am not waiting until then. I will accept the here and now as the best there is and attempt to make a few incremental changes for the better.

[peterbindi]

Dear all.

Democracy in this world is,making dam,s were,s from nature the water must flo.
The real problem is to go to plan A and they always stoc in plan Z.
For one the problem is of,for the second the problem strikes.
Not everyone is happy with this democrasy.

greetings peterbindi

[andrey]

Devotees of all gurus, and a few pop stars, would say exactly the same thing.

I agree. That's why i think we just have to find our own star.

Can we have a fixed deadline and some guarantees?

From one side you complain to when deadlines are given and on the other side you request such. It is always said that we have to fix the date, because as you say we are the ones to make the world better.

[fluffy bunny]

Really the point I am trying to make is that the nature of the many forms of "democracy" are far more complex and extensive than your "one man, one vote" election fever impression for the point of view of an extremely immature in the ex-Communist Block. Indeed, the large proportion of democratic procedures exist and happen without the parliamentary process.

To put aside all the hard won benefits that the pursuit of democracy have given birth too is not just idiotic but criminal, i.e. the banning of the slave trade, the stopping of child labour, female emancipation, workers rights, national insurance policies and social benefits, animal protection and nature conservation, the banning of hunting, immigration policies providing numerous refugee status ... not just to mention the administration of develop nations and the provision of infrastructure. The list goes on and on.

Read up about the excess of Stalin, Mao, the Indian Rajput lavishing themselves whilst their peasant castes starved or died for the want of food and clean water.

And don't twist my words, andrey ... I am not complaining "when deadlines are set". I highlight the continued manipulation of BK followers by false and then re-written predictions dating right back to the start of the Yagya. 50 years of Creation, 50 years of Destruction, that is what the unelect, unaccountable, incumbent and current leadership used to teach us, day in day out.

I am asking for this God to be held accountable. Of course, the PBKs would say he is not God (BapDada) so you are excuse from this criticism. Personally, I am not actually a democrat but I would never dream of ignoring reality. Indeed, I attempt to practise a greater awareness of it (reality) each day. Get real.

[andrey]

The way you know communism is only from the books. There is a lot of propaganda now and at the time of the "iron curtain" there were a lot of false propaganda on both sides.

Today the greatness of the democracy is being propagated around the world. To a monarch or a democrat still it is clear the issue the world faces is not political and no policy or rule is going to work. Even the great disbeliever still holds hopes for some supernatural power.

Whilst i criticize democracy it is not in the favour of the wrong practices. The contrast to be drawn is not between the democracy and other rules that we know, but the rule that we live now in, the world that we live now in and a world that is possible, but we don't find in the past and we now have to create, that is still only a dream and for this we may of course take all the good from any rule we know up to now eg. no slavery, no violence etc.

It is of course our past, but we don't remember it and don't find traces anywhere, so for now it is only our future. It is more difficult not to forget the past and learn from it. Since we have passed through a long story and we have seen fails in all systems, it is now time for something new and different. We won't find it if we stick to what we already know and have seen. We have to fly a little bit, imagine, otherwise we will create just the same old type. Come on, get real but get some thrill.

I don't believe in evolution and it does not make me feel good if i know that future generations will live well. I will have to work now slowly for the future advancement. Better we make some drastic change so that we can live well here and now. Do you believe it is possible in reality?

I believe we both have headed for the same goal, but we have come from different position. Whilst you start being very angry and dissapointed I am very happy to have found the bk knowledge.

[fluffy bunny]

I don't believe in evolution and it does not make me feel good ...

Andrey, I really tired when BK-types tell me that I am "very angry" or "over emotional". What I take it to be is a sense of being challenged by the strength of the argument I am presenting. A discomfort from being woken up from their child-like intoxication by the demands of something near 'passable' intellectual rigor.

OK, by The Knowledge "Democracy" (although I maintain that there are many forms of democracies not one) is a lower and worst state that the murderous despots of the Middle Age, the exploitative Imperialists of the Hispanic and Victorian Era and the soul sucking rajputs. A far worst stated ... totally impure.

Can you explain how and why social democracies are much worse than these previous expressions? ( ... there are two answers I can think of; one of them is we are evolving as a species).

From my point of view both the living standards and human rights (another by-product of democratic lobbying) of individuals have increased hugely under this form of governance and I far prefer living in a world where some ruler does not cut off my head on a whim ... even if they might cut off my Murli supply on a whim.

[andrey]

I believe that the times change, so our perceptions. What we today consider bad, tomorrow may not be bad. The same is with the past. We look at the past now with the eye of today. Our eyes of today are worse than the eyes of yesterday. We see in the past the bad things which at the time of the then may have been different.

Fo example you use the example of chopping off the head, but as i see it in this there used to be some ... dignity. People have been killed in the name of religion or ideology, or policy or power in its truer sense. People used not be afraid to speak and be killed. Today we are free to speak. No one will kill you for this. Our speaking has become meaningless.

I can assure you that today our life is much more threatened and in danger than in the past and our death can be so pathetic like ice pendant to fall on your head, to die of drugs or by overeating.

[alladin]

Hi ex-l. Re-writing, editing, hiding, destroying data and scriptures is a traditional task of high hierarchies in religions. Probably because of the connection with those holding secular power, so they had interests in manipulating the truth or making up stories.

So, being the BKs the top knot, they set the bad example.

[fluffy bunny]

as I see it in this there used to be some ... dignity.

Well, 'freedom of speech' is also the fruit of democracy, can you explain to me what the dignity in slavery was and why life degraded for those affected by it being stopped? Or the people under the Spanish Inquisition?

You are being ridiculous andrey and sort of dishonest in your answer. It is not a question of "our perceptions" I am questioning the fundamental premise of Gyan; the BK World History view. All I am asking for it a clear explanation. Of course, the lower classes ... in fact, everyone ... were afraid to speak up. Read some history books.

Even, "Today we are free to speak ... our speaking has become meaningless". Is a second hand (and non-Gyani) opinion.

For me, the increase in human, animal and environmental rights ... never mind healthcare, technology etc ... poses a big problem for the BKs. How does it fit into their World view? According the the theory, the world should have been destroyed by now and we should have been half way to the creation of their Golden Aged Palaces. 50 years for Destruction, 50 Years for Creation. Life should all be getting worse. I am sorry andrey but unlike you I spent time inside the organization and I know what I was told.

They had 10,000s of us, for decades, jumping through hooped backwards to please them on the premise that, by now, we should have been living in utter disaster or digging the foundations for heaven.

No detailed explanation is given on WHAT or HOW the social orders will be achieved ... except, "they will be the royalty ... and if you suck up to them, you might become their courtiers". All you have is a Hindu comic book version of a magic wand being waved, full-dressed deities popping out of stars falling from heaven, Dadi's wearing crowns and jewel encrusted palaces rising out of the ground.

Even Disneyland is more real ...

[andrey]

Now there is no slavery, but there is subtle slavery. We are said to be slaves of tehnique. It depends on what we look at.

I know example from a play of when the serfdom used to finish in Russia and people there became free. For them this used to be equal to death.

I believe slaves of the past could have been more free than an office clerk today. Freedom, happiness, peace are states. We cannot compare by facts and documents. We have to ask a person of today and a person of then how does he feel, but because we cannot have a person of then, we can have pictures. See the pictures of men from the past and see older movies. What does their eyes reveal, their features and the face.

Look how the gеnres in films and books change. They invent technolgies and this if both for good and bad. They create fantasy films that look like miracle but also disgusting horror films. We have gained something with time, but lost something else. On picture today we present the past in more real way then it used to be. A killing in the past no one used to see. To see murder or a dead men was rare. It can also be seen live. Today every evening the whole familly looks at mass murders in front of the tv.

We live more comfortably, but we lost touch with nature. Machines save our time, but also consumes it. Our faces and eyes have lost some inner, spiritual glow. Our life has become very rich externally and very poor internaly.

Vices has become more intense and i don't have to look a long back, but just see children that gather in the yard. What we were doing at their age and what do they do now.

You say killing means bad. Slavery means bad. There are 12345 times and more types of killing that can be even heroism and a slave that can feel at home and receive such threatement that will not receive when free.

Just now i watched a programm about a jail for the youngsters. You look at their face and they seem more righteous than people that walk the streets. They say i killed and raped and burglered and there is some thinking, some balance, some wisdom. Some say for me it is better to live here, otherwise i don't get clean, white sheets to sleep on and food to eat regularly. One says i did it for the thrill i was not in need of money. One says i did not know what i was doing then. One is asked do you believe in god and he says "Whom should i believe if i don't belive in him, in the devil?". And there is some inocence in front of the camera. One is ahamed of what he has done and does not like to confess he has raped. If someone does like this to my own daughter - he says - i would not feel well.

At the same time on the streets people walk that have raped and has beaten the woman and has paid her and has raped her again and has paid the lawyer and has a big house and familly and is in the parliament and behave like angels in front of the camera and reap applauses. At the same time these children eat soap for they don't know what it is and write letters to their parents and never receive a response. Of course there are all types there too. This is the misbalanced society we live in.

[andrey]

The Karachi period used to be like a sample of Heaven, because there use to be unity. There used to be one controller. There used not to be zones and zonal in-charges. And they were one family inside which everyone used to be a Brahmin, for everyone used to be one mother and Father. And they did not have concerns for food, shelter, anything only for the study. And they were not thinking of the outside world, nor seeing it, nor having any contact with it. They were happy with what they had found and did not need doing anything - even service - in the beginning.

The practice of Yaad used to be so simple and easy, because Baba used to be in corporeal form. no one used to think, what and how to remember. Everyone used to have practical conection with Baba.