Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

[Roy]

That One(Supreme Soul Shiva) enters this one(BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) and adopts him. He Himself says: I, the incorporeal One, have to take the support of this one. Therefore, I also change his name.

Yes, Father Shiv adopts Dada Lekhraj's body and names him Brahma, in 1947, whilst he is in Karachi... but this in itself does not make him a mouth born progeny or true Brahmin... He has to be adopted as a Brahmin or mouth born progeny of Brahma through knowledge that he receives through his ears... Receiving visions is not the path of knowledge, especially when those visions are not clearly understood. So how where his visions clarified?... i.e. through whom where they clarified? So the question is... through whom was Brahma Baba Krishna actually adopted as a mouth born progeny himself?... What role did those souls who were the heads of the Yagya between 1936 and 1947, play in this matter?

“The (directly narrated) Murlis have started since (the days of) Karachi (in 1947). Earlier (Shiv)Baba did not narrate Murlis (directly to the children). He(Dada Lekhraj) used to get up at 2 o’clock in the night and write 10-15 pages. The Father(Shiv) used to dictate (to Dada Lekhraj Krishna, through the body of another), then they(i.e. the two of them) used to issue the copies (to the children of the Yagya).” [Mu 26.05.78]

"Those people(i.e. the non-Brahmins of the outside world) do not understand the meaning of vaanprasth as well (as the BKs, who fudge this issue, when they speak of Brahma Baba Krishna being fifty-fiveish, or sixtyish, in 1936/7, when there is now proof that he was about 52, and thus not at the vaaprastha stage at this time). They have to enter the vaanprastha stage; this is why they feel that they should seek a guru. They seek a guru after 60 years of age. This rule has started now (in the Confluence Age). The Father says – I become his (Prajapita-Ram's) Satguru in the vaanprastha stage (when he was 60 years old in 1936/7, in his previous birth) at the end of the many births of this one (Brahma Baba Krishna, who would be about 50 years old at this time)." [Mu 20.07.09]

"Where did Prajapita Brahma come from(i.e. who did Father Shiv enter in order to adopt him, in 1936/7... i.e. who played the part of Brahma through whom he became a mouth born progeny)?... no one can understand these things. In the last birth of Krishna(Dada Lekhraj, who was about 50-52, in 1936/7), the Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul, made him(Prajapita Brahma aka Ram who was in the vaanprasth stage i.e. he was 60) His Chariot (in 1936/7). This is not in anyone's intellect (before 1976)." [Mu 20.11.12]

“Was he Prajapita, without having become a Brahmin (first)? If he is not a mouth born progeny (of Brahma himself), then how can he be Prajapita?" [no date]

"This Brahma is adopted. Brahmins are (adopted) through Prajapita Brahma." [Mu 06.02.71]

"Brahma is not the mouthborn progeny of Shiv." [Mu 26.10.07]

"At this time, you are mouthborn progeny, the Brahmins adopted by Prajapita Brahma. Nobody understands its meaning. If you adopt someone he is not your child, he is your mouthborn progeny." [Mu 24.03.79]

"It is explained, that through (Prajapita)Brahma's body, Supreme Father Supreme Soul(Shiv) comes (and) adopts Brahma(Baba Krishna)." [Mu 11.12.83]

"This Dada was not a Brahmin before (he had his visions explained to him). Actually there was an elder (or more knowledgeable) Brahmin. But he had left (the Yagya)." [Mu 10.07.87]

"They stayed for 10 years, (and) would go into trance... They would make even Mama and Baba perform the drill. They were sitting as heads. Baba gave directions (by) entering them. There was so much respect. Even Mama and Baba were their students. They also are not here today. There was not that much knowledge at that time." [Mu 25.07.67]

“The Father gave (spiritual) birth (at the beginning of the Yagya, in 1936/7) to Krishna(Brahma Baba) through the Mother Gita.” [Mu 14.12.93]

"You should not have your sight on any bodily being. Krishna(Brahma Baba) is also a human (with a) child(-like intellect), (who) takes (spiritual) birth from the womb(-like intellect, of Gita Mata... the seed of knowledge having been implanted in her, by or through the creator Father, Prajapita Brahma aka Ram)." [Mu 28.08.03]

"Krishna(Brahma Baba) has also taken (spiritual) birth through the womb(-like intellect, of Gita Mata, in whom the seed of knowledge was planted by Father Shiv, through Prajapita-Ram)." [Mu 21.08.03]

[Golden Heart]

Sweetest, Beloved Golden Hearts,

Baba gives you directions. ShivBaba will not go into the streets and stumble around. If this one (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) goes, it means that ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiva) has to stumble around. You should have regard for Baba. It is the children's duty to do THIS service (of going around).

In stark contrast to the above Shrimat of Supreme Soul Shiva, the chief instrument soul of the Principal Adulterated Trimurti, who is considered as ‘living’ ShivBaba after 1976, wanders and stumbles from place to place, providing ludicrous reasons for doing so, gullibly believed by his ‘innocent’ followers!

Mother Jagadamba (OmRadhe) is the bestower of fortune. It is the mother who attains her status. She too says: Remember ShivBaba, I imbibe knowledge from Him and then also inspire others to imbibe, I make you fortunate. You are bestower of fortune for Bharat, so you should have so much intoxication. Whatever is Mama's (OmRadhe’s) praise is the praise of the Father (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) and also of the Grandfather (Supreme Soul Shiva) . . .
The Father sits here and explains who this Jagadamba (OmRadhe) is. She is the bestower of one hundred-fold fortune for Bharat. Her Shiv Shakti Army is also renowned. Jagadamba is the head , that is, she is the head who is instrumental to establish the ONE Government in Bharat.

In the Confluence Age, the ‘FIXED and ONLY’ (Mukrar) Chariot of Supreme Soul Shiva, (Supreme Soul Shiva being the Supreme Mother&Father of ALL Human Souls on the ‘seed’ level), is BrahmaBaba-Lekhraj Kirpalani, the 84th corporeal vehicle of the first prince of Golden Age-SriKrishna, (subsequently delegated to play the ‘static’ ‘Father’ role of Supreme Soul Shiva, as JagatPita, on the corporeal and subtle levels). BrahmaBaba-Lekhraj Kirpalani is AdiDev, as well as AdiDevi; Adam, as well as Eve; JagatPita, as well as JagatAmba; the Mother, as well as the Father of ALL embodied Human Souls, the ‘PeakCream of Humanity’. The ‘active or dynamic’ ‘Mother’ role of Supreme Soul Shiva, which is also primarily delegated to BrahmaBaba-Lekhraj Kirpalani, as JagatAmba, is then re-delegated to his SoulMate, OmRadhe, who is the first princess of Golden Age-SriRadha.
This represents the ONLY SINGULAR UNADULTERATED Trimurti of the Cycle in the Confluence Age.

In stark contrast, the chief instrument soul of the Principal Adulterated Trimurti implies JagatAmba to be KDD-S; with whom he had physical sexual intercourse for several years, using various contraceptive methods to avoid pregnancy, after which she leaves him, declares in writing she has nothing to do with AIVV, and gets married to BS and gives birth to two children, son V now aged 11, and daughter C now aged 4, presently living in her second residence, after she left AIVV, at Rishikesh, India. This is clearly the ‘shooting’ of the latter half of the Cycle, and these aspects would be discussed in detail later, having carried out very intimate study and interaction with concerned AIVV surrendered sisters, including KDS, since 2010, in this specific connection - (considered by some AIVV sisters to be the 18th Chapter of the Gita)!

Who can make shudras into Brahmins? Definitely, Prajapita Brahma is needed. How was he adopted? Just as you say, ‘this is my wife’, how did He make this one His? He was adopted. The Father says, you call Me the Mother&Father, I am the Father. Where can I bring my wife from? So, I enter this one and name him Brahma. A wife is adopted. Just as a physical Father adopts a wife and creates a creation from the womb, so Baba entered this one, adopted him and created the mouth-born creation through this one’s mouth. You say, we are Brahmins. Definitely, this one's name is Brahma. Whose child is Brahma? Shiv Baba's. Who adopted him? The unlimited Father. The example is very good, but only those in whose intellects this has sat will be able to explain. If it is not in someone's intellect, he won't know how to explain. There is a physical Father and a spiritual Father. He (physical Father) adopts a wife and says, ‘She is mine’. That One(Supreme Soul Shiva) enters this one(BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) and adopts him. He Himself says: I, the incorporeal One, have to take the support of this one. Therefore, I also change his name.

BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani is a true Brhahmin because Supreme Soul Shiva entered BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani and adopted him as a Brahmin or mouth-born progeny, through Divine Knowledge, which he received through the mouth & ears of his OWN physical vehicle (and not merely through earlier visions, which were clarified by Supreme Soul Shiva DIRECTELY through the mouth of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani himself, gradually, subsequently). It is crystal clear from the above version of Supreme Soul Shiva that Supreme Soul Shiva ENTERS BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani ALONE, and adopts him, BOTH, as His ‘WIFE’, as well as his first-born ‘CHILD’, leaving NO ROOM for any ambiguity WHATSOEVER for souls with a CLEAR, PURE, DIVINE INTELLECT! The souls who were made instrumental to conduct drills in the very beginning, as a matter of regard and training only, eventually FAILED to recognise both the Parlokik and Alokik Parents, and left the Yagya, since storks and swans could not continue to exist together, and since they rule in Treta Yug or later during the Cycle - to be clarified later.

“The Murlis started since Karachi. Earlier Baba did not narrate Murlis. He used to get up at 2 o’clock in the night and write 10-15 pages. The Father used to dictate, then they used to issue the copies.” [Mu 26.05.78]
Supreme Soul Shiva used to dictate the versions to BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani directly through his own mouth (mouth of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) !

"Those people do not understand the meaning of vaanprasth. They have to enter the vaanprastha stage; this is why they feel that they should seek a guru. They seek a guru after 60 years of age. This rule has started now. The Father says – I become his (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani’s) Satguru in the vaanprastha stage at the end of the many births of this one." [Mu 20.07.09]
Obviously, the birth-certificate available was recorded based on the verbal information provided by the parents in an Indian village, where it was normal practice to record same only several years, after the actual birth, only IF and WHEN same was required for legal documentary purposes, and the year had to be guessed based on major historical events, and sometimes deliberately adjusted for specific reasons - to be discussed further later.
It is crystal clear from the above version that Supreme Soul Shiva refers to BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani without an iota of doubt whatsoever, regardless of the actual ‘birth-date’ issue, which is meaningless to souls who are currently practically receiving the direct sustenance from Avyak BapDada, and becomes an issue only for the ‘baby-intellect’ or ‘absolute spiritual idiots’ (maha-murkh) children who have a part to play with the IshwariyaRup or GodlyForm of Maya, as per Drama Plan, and as already clarified by Supreme Soul Shiva in several SMs.

"Where did Prajapita Brahma come from? ... no one can understand these things. In the last birth of Krishna, the Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul, made him (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) His Chariot. This is not in anyone's intellect." [Mu 20.11.12]
Explicitly clear to souls with a CLEAR, PURE, DIVINE INTELLECT that Supreme Soul Shiva is referring to BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani!

“Was he Prajapita, without having become a Brahmin? If he is not a mouth born progeny, then how can he be Prajapita?" [no date]
BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani is a true Brhahmin because Supreme Soul Shiva entered BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani and adopted him as a Brahmin or mouth-born progeny, through Divine Knowledge, which he received through the ears of his OWN physical vehicle, therefore he became Prajapita, after he became a Brahmin in this manner.

"This Brahma is adopted. Brahmins are (then adopted) through Prajapita Brahma." [Mu 06.02.71]
Brahma and Prajapita Brahma refer to the same personality BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, in this version.

"Brahma is not the mouth-born progeny of Shiv." [Mu 26.10.07]
In this version 'Brahma' refers to the perfect reflection (Brahma in the Subtle Regions at that time) of the effort-maker Prajapita Brahma (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) on the corporeal sphere.

"At this time, you are mouth-born progeny, the Brahmins adopted by Prajapita Brahma. Nobody understands its meaning. If you adopt someone he is not your (physical) child, he is your mouth-born progeny." [Mu 24.03.79]
Refers to BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, at that time !

"It is explained, that through Brahma's body, Supreme Father Supreme Soul comes and adopts Brahmins." [Mu 11.12.83]
Obviously, there is an error in the last word, which has been ‘captured well’ by Maya to twist the versions of Supreme Soul Shiva, as is the case with every such version, to the capricious advantage of the followers of the GodlyForm of Maya, who PROVE themselves to be ABSOLUTE SPIRITUAL IDIOTS (Maha Murkh), again and again !

"This Dada was not a Brahmin before. Actually there was an elder Brahmin. But he had left." [Mu 10.07.87]
Require more lines of the SM to properly comprehend this version. The soul of DLR was OBVIOUSLY NOT a TRUE Brahmin, BEFORE the ACTUAL entry of Shiva! In any case, ALL who had left in the early years, HAD FAILED the EARLIER TESTS and had to leave the Yagya, since they were failures, who rule in Treta Yug or later during the Cycle.

"They stayed for 10 years, (and) would go into trance... They would make even Mama and Baba perform the drill. They were sitting as heads. Baba gave directions (by) entering them. There was so much respect. Even Mama and Baba were their students. They also are not here today. There was not that much knowledge at that time." [Mu 25.07.67]
Refers to the trance-sisters who were placed in charge by BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, as a matter of regard, and for training purposes. However, they FAILED to recognise both the Parlokik and Alokik Parents, and left the Yagya, since storks and swans could not continue to exist together.

“The Father gave birth to Krishna through the Mother Gita.” [Mu 14.12.93]
Here Mother Gita refers to the Feminine personality of Supreme Soul Shiva who gives spiritual birth to human souls through the Divine Knowledge of the True Gita (also termed as Mother Gita) which emerges from His Intellect in Sangamyug.

"You should not have your sight on any bodily being. Krishna is also a human child, who takes birth from the womb." [Mu 28.08.03]
Supreme Soul Shiva has clearly specified in several SMs and AVs NOT to remember ANY BODILY BEING, in stark contrast to the ‘kumat’ of the last soul of Treta Yug who instructs his followers to remember the Supreme in his own corporeal vehicle ('shooting' of worship of ShivLing on the Path of Devotion).
‘Krishna’ refers to the first birth of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani in the Golden Age.

"Krishna has also taken birth through the womb." [Mu 21.08.03]
Refers to the first birth of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani in the Golden Age.

It is to be noted well by all concerned, that for every PURE version of Supreme Soul Shiva high-lighted, the GodlyForm of Maya will motivate the followers to counter-act with minimum TEN TWISTED points of Knowledge, being the specific characteristic of Maya-Ravan, depicted with TEN HEADS and the head of a donkey too; and for every clarification of each such twisted point, the followers will be further motivated to deliver minimum TEN other twisted versions. That is why Supreme Soul Shiva has clearly cautioned the TRUE Brahmins not to indulge in any debate, discussion or argument with any such 'innocent' followers (spiritual donkeys), being a PURE WASTE OF TIME and ENERGY!

Watch this space for further comprehensive assessment of the emerging scenes in the Confluence Age!

With Eternal, Infinite, Imperishable Divine LOVE . . . In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,
Golden Heart

[Roy]

In stark contrast to the above Shrimat of Supreme Soul Shiva, the chief instrument soul of the Principal Adulterated Trimurti, who is considered as ‘living’ ShivBaba after 1976, wanders and stumbles from place to place, providing ludicrous reasons for doing so, gullibly believed by his ‘innocent’ followers!

"I (Ram ShivBaba) am a Ramta Jogi (a wandering monk, all over India to teach the poor children). I can uplift anyone (spiritually)." [Mu 24.04.70]

The mother role was a static role... whereby just as mothers in the broad drama traditionally stay at home and look after the children, so did the world mother Brahma Baba Krishna aka Jagadamaba. However, it is the fathers in life who traditionally go out into the world... and this is the case with the part of the spiritual Father... He goes out into the world to meet the children who are too poor or who are in bondage, and cannot travel to see Him. It is much more practical for Him to go to them, than the other way around. This is God's love for His children. This is not the same thing as stumbling in the streets, or going to huge fairs... Baba sits in relatively small gatherings and speaks to the children face to face and encourages questions... which is totally the opposite of what happens in the BK Yagya when Brahma Baba Krishna visits the BK children through Dadi Gulzar, when their are huge gatherings of many thousands and a microphone is essential to be heard.

"However large may be the public gatherings, but the Father meets personally(not in large gatherings) even in public. But nobody (in the Brahmin family) can understand this deep secret." [Av 30.04.77]

"(Shiv)Baba will not sit in big gatherings (of many thousands)." [Mu 04.09.73]

"Father (Shiv) cannot go to large gatherings. This is children's work. (Father will) ask questions and get answers from children. Sanyasis(BKs) etc. will not meet Father(Ram ShivBaba) face to face (as they haven't recognised the part of Father, that is played via Prajapita-Ram). They(BK Dadis) want respect(i.e. positions of power in the Yagya) and, (Ram Shiv)Baba's role is very wonderful (and incognito)." [Mu 12.10.72]

"How can an educational course be received through a loudspeaker (as is the case in Mount Abu)? How could the Teacher(Ram ShivBaba) ask His questions?" [Mu 24.01.71]

In stark contrast, the chief instrument soul of the Principal Adulterated Trimurti implies JagatAmba to be KDD-S; with whom he had physical sexual intercourse for several years, using various contraceptive methods to avoid pregnancy, after which she leaves him, declares in writing she has nothing to do with AIVV, and gets married to BS and gives birth to two children, son V now aged 11, and daughter C now aged 4, presently living in her second residence, after she left AIVV, at Rishikesh, India. This is clearly the ‘shooting’ of the latter half of the Cycle, and these aspects would be discussed in detail later, having carried out very intimate study and interaction with concerned AIVV surrendered sisters, including KDS, since 2010, in this specific connection (considered by some AIVV sisters to be the 18th Chapter of the Gita)!

Are you saying that Kamla Devi herself has spoken to you personally and given you intimate details of her's and Virendra Dev Dixit ji's sexual relationship?.. and that this relationship was witnessed first hand by the surrendered sisters you speak of?

BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani is a true Brhahmin because Supreme Soul Shiva entered BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani and adopted him as a Brahmin or mouth-born progeny, through Divine Knowledge, which he received through the ears of his OWN physical vehicle (and not through earlier visions, which were clarified by Supreme Soul Shiva DIRECTELY through the mouth of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani himself, gradually, subsequently). It is crystal clear from the above version of Supreme Soul Shiva that Supreme Soul Shiva ENTERS BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani ALONE, and adopts him, BOTH, as His ‘WIFE’, as well as his first-born ‘CHILD’, leaving NO ROOM for any ambiguity WHATSOEVER for souls with a CLEAR, PURE, DIVINE INTELLECT! The souls who were made instrumental to conduct drills in the very beginning, as a matter of regard and training only, eventually FAILED to recognise both the Parlokik and Alokik Parents, and left the Yagya, since storks and swans could not continue to exist together, and since they rule in Tretayug or later during the Cycle, to be discussed later.

These souls were the heads of the Yagya who taught even Brahma Baba the drill of meditation. Why wasn't this being done from day one through Brahma Baba Krishna, if he was playing the role of the spiritual Father?... It doesn't make sense the way you are trying to explain it. The shooting of the beginning of the Golden Age was being done at this time, whereby child Krishna was born of parents(the world mother and Father), who were superior in knowledge(elder) to him.

"Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be called spiritual Father (as this role is not played through him... it is through Ram's body that the part of spiritual Father is played)." [Mu 28.10.90]

"It is this Brahma(Baba aka Dada Lekhraj) who becomes Shri Krishna (the first prince of the Golden Age). Brahma(Ram) is called (the true) Prajapita, the Father of the People. Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be called this(i.e. the true Prajapita). Incorporeal God (Shiv) created Brahmins through the mouth of Brahma(Baba Krishna). Shri Krishna (himself) was a small child(i.e. Brahma Baba was not strong in Gyan - child intellect). The God of the Gita (in the corporeal world) is the Incorporeal Supreme Soul (in the body of Prajapita-Ram i.e. Ram ShivBaba aka Shiv Shankar Bholenath - who is remembered in the form of the Shivlingam - not Brahma Baba Krishna - the one with the child intellect - who did not understand the deeper aspects within the Murlis, whilst he remained in the body). The Krishna soul(Dada Lekhraj Brahma Baba) made effort and claimed that status (of the first prince of the Golden Age). Only first-class children can explain this deep aspect tactfully." [Mu 01.02.03]

It is to be noted well by all concerned, that for every PURE version of Supreme Soul Shiva high-lighted, the GodlyForm of Maya will motivate the followers to counter-act with minimum TEN TWISTED points of Knowledge, being the specific characteristic of Maya-Ravan, depicted with TEN HEADS and the head of a donkey too; and for every clarification of each such twisted point, the followers will be further motivated to deliver minimum TEN other twisted versions. That is why Supreme Soul Shiva has clearly cautioned the TRUE Brahmins not to indulge in any debate, discussion or argument with any such 'innocent' followers, being a PURE WASTE OF TIME and ENERGY!

I must have missed that memo! This is not an instruction i have ever come across personally... only that one should back up his point of view with Murli points... I never check how many i actually post.

[fluffy bunny]

Are you saying that Kamla Devi herself has spoken to you personally and given you intimate details of her's and Veerendra Dev Dixit ji's sexual relationship?.. and that this relationship was witnessed first hand by the surrendered Sisters you speak of?

I understand that Virendra Dev Dixit had sex with a number or perhaps even all of the original sisters ... is not that true? It's not a problem for me as long as whoever did it was happy to do so and was not coerced to do so. I think doing so would 'fix' a lot of BK sisters.

If this part of the history is the part of the history that made the BKs so unhappy, then it should be discussed at some point. I understand how difficult that might be but if it is the root of the BKs attack on the PBKs ... and it certainly came up in false criminal allegations ... then it should be discussed openly and maturely.

Of course, it seems the BKs are also hiding stuff in the same area relating to Lekhraj Kirpalani in the Om Mandli, and perhaps even Om Radhe, so it's all cultural silliness until they open up and speak about it.

[Roy]

If this part of the history is the part of the history that made the BKs so unhappy, then it should be discussed at some point. I understand how difficult that might be but if it is the root of the BKs attack on the PBKs ... and it certainly came up in false criminal allegations ... then it should be discussed openly and maturely.

This is my feeling on the matter too... If these events really did take place, they are significant and have to be acknowledged and understood... but I am not at all interested in hearsay and speculation, which is all that seems to have emerged so far. It is also accurate as fluffy Bhai has mentioned, to acknowledge the claims that were made about Lekhraj Kirpalani and Om Mandali... You cannot grandstand about bringing forth evidence about Virendra Dev Dixit ji, and ignore the things that went on in the early days of Om Mandali... This is not the path of knowledge or truth... its politics!

[fluffy bunny]

... And it also fits the given model that the one reflects the other.

[Roy]

... And it also fits the given model that the one reflects the other.

Good point!

[Golden Heart]

Sweetest, Beloved Golden Hearts,

Nothing contained herein is directed specifically towards any particular individual, groups of individuals, or any Organization or ideology, with any malice. Hence any offence which may inadvertently be caused to any particular individual or individuals is deeply regretted. There is no malice directed towards anyone, whatsoever! An attempt has been made to highlight and differentiate the major interpretations of the Spiritual Knowledge, for the benefit and appreciation of ONLY THOSE who are specifically concerned and genuinely interested in these matters, and none should take any offence whatsoever!

"I am a Ramta Yogi (a wandering yogi). I can uplift anyone (spiritually)." [Mu 24.04.70]
Version meant for mouth-born progeny, through Prajapita Brhama (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani), and not for the sole Chariot of Supreme Soul Shiva. It has been adulterated by soul of last Ram of Silver Age, (when he becomes instrumental to play the deceptive role of Ravan), to justify his wandering, jostling and struggle, particularly in the initial years, to-date. The donkey depicted over the head of Ravan is the memorial of this laborious part played by the soul of last Ram of Silver Age, who does not recognise the accurate roles of either his Parlokik Father (Supreme Soul Shiva) or his alokik Father (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani), as yet, and makes his followers believe that he is ‘living’ ShivBaba, Supreme Father, Supreme Soul, Prajapita Brahma, JagatPita, Vishnu, Shankar, Sangamyugi Krishna, Sangamyugi Narayan, etc. - COMPLETE DECEPTIONS - perfectly, as per Drama Plan.

"However large may be the public gatherings, but the Father meets personally even in public. But nobody (in the Brahmin family) can understand this deep secret." [Av 30.04.77]
Version meant for those specific Brahmins who have already developed an Avyakt or angelic stage, number-wise, by virtue of which each such soul can experience an exclusive private, personal meeting with BapDada, regardless of the size of the Brahmin gathering. Only Supreme Soul Shiva has the potential to give such an experience to each such soul, simultaneously! The ‘innocent’ followers of apparent or false Ram ShivBaba, who have been trapped in body-consciousness, are not afforded such an experience due to their ‘innocence’ of body-consciousness and therefore become extremely vulnerable to being readily influenced by the adulterated interpretations of their bodily guru, which they accept blindly and keep repeating like a parrot (a parrot does not possess a discriminating intellect of its own).

"(Shiv)Baba will not sit in big gatherings (of many thousands)." [Mu 04.09.73]
Version meant for ruler souls of Golden and Silver Ages who met Supreme Soul Shiva exclusively through the sole Chariot of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, prior to 1969. Also, Supreme Soul Shiva will not sit in big gatherings of the OUTSIDE WORLD, since He meets only those Brahmin children who truly recognise Him.

"Father (Supreme Soul Shiva) cannot go to large gatherings. This is children's work. (They will) ask questions and get answers from children. Sanyasis will not meet Father face to face. They want respect and Baba's (Supreme Soul Shiva) role is very wonderful (and incognito)." [Mu 12.10.72]
Refers to LARGE GATHERINGS of the OUTSIDE WORLD. Father meets only His children who recognize Him truly, regardless of the size of the gathering. Sanyasis of the outer world, including BKs, who do not recognise the accurate roles of either the Parlokik Father or the alokik Father, cannot meet Supreme Soul Shiva directly, face to face, when He plays His role through the sole Chariot of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani. The Sanyasis of the outer world are arrogant and want respect, the ‘seed’ of this spiritual arrogance emerging from the soul of last Ram of Silver Age, in the 'shooting' period of the latter part of Sangam Yug, after 1969 !

Version meant for ruler souls of Golden and Silver Ages who met Supreme Soul Shiva exclusively through the sole Chariot of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, prior to 1969. Educational course refers to the initial course, which was also conducted by teachers, individually or in small groups, earlier. In contrast, although this point was used extensively by soul of last Ram of Silver Age to wean away unwary BKs in the early years, loudspeaker is now being used at his gatherings.

"Krishna cannot be called spiritual Father." [Mu 28.10.90]
The child Krishna of Sat Yug cannot be called a spiritual Father, since he is not the sermonizer of the Gita, as is erroneously believed on the path of Devotion. The part played by soul of last Ram of Silver Age, masquerading as Sangamyugi Krishna, and as Ram ShivBaba in Sangam Yug, causes this erroneous belief in the outer broad Drama.

"It is this Brahma (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) who becomes Shri Krishna (the first prince of the Golden Age). (This) Brahma (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) is called (the true) Prajapita, the Father of the People. (Child ) Krishna (of Satyug) cannot be called this. Incorporeal God (Supreme Soul Shiva) created Brahmins through the mouth of Brahma (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani). Shri Krishna was a small child . The God of the Gita (in the corporeal world) is the Incorporeal Supreme Soul. Krishna’s soul (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) made effort and claimed that status (of the first prince of the Golden Age). Only first-class children can explain this deep aspect tactfully." [Mu 01.02.03]
No ambiguity whatsoever for any soul with a CLEAR, PURE INTELLECT. APPARENT or FALSE, IMPOSTOR 'Ram ShivBaba', who possesses not only a ‘baby-intellect’ but who is an ‘absolute spiritual idiot’ (maha murkh) to-date, represented by the image of a donkey on the head of Ravan, and who has yet to recognize the accurate roles of either the Parlokik Father or the Alokik Father clearly, and who is thus an orphan, is the chief instrument (mukrar rath) of Ravan, instrumental to indirectly give the inheritance to concerned souls to rule in Ravan Rajya or the Kingdom of Ravan in Copper and Iron Ages. All souls who have to play such roles will be powerfully attracted to this personality, considering him to be the Real 'ShivBaba' – ALL PERFECTLY, as per Drama Plan, of course - NOTHING NEW!

The PURE, UNADULTERED KNOWLEDGE WILL NOT MAKE SENSE to an impure intellect, and any discussion with a soul of such an intellect is pointless, meaningless and unfruitful!
For those who know, understand and appreciate, NO PROOF IS REQUIRED; and for those who do not wish to know, do not wish to understand and cannot appreciate, NO PROOF IS POSSIBLE!
The Knowledge itself is hearsay and speculation, until same is EXPERIENCED first-hand, but that too can take place, ONLY NUMBER-WISE, depending on the PURITY of the INTELLECT of individual souls, as per Drama Plan!

There is NO NEED for you to DEBATE with anyone! Renounce ALL the religions of the body, along with the consciousness of the body, become bodiless and consider yourself as a SOUL. Even if we have read the Scriptures, yet why should we DISCUSS? When the Father (Supreme Soul Shiva) has said to Remember Him ALONE; and another direction is to remain PURE, like a lotus flower, while living within the house-hold! Sins can be incinerated only through this FIRE of Yoga. God Speaks: God is the Supreme Soul.

To say that the soul is the Supreme Soul is such a GREAT MISTAKE!

The soul of Ram implies and justifies that he is the Supreme Father as well as the Supreme Soul, in his discourses, PROVING himself to be the greatest ‘spiritual idiot’ (maha murkh) in the human realm!

Dada (Supreme Soul Shiva as GrandFather) (‘d’ pronounced as in ‘day’), Baba (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani as Father) and Mama (OmRadhe as the Most Beloved Child) – this new creation has taken place in Sangamyug

This represents the ONLY SINGULAR UNADULTERATED Trimurti of the Cycle in the Confluence Age.

"Those who hath a CLEAR, PURE, DIVINE Intellect to Perceive, let them Perceive!"

Watch this space for further comprehensive assessment of the emerging scenes in the Confluence Age!

With Eternal, Infinite, Imperishable Divine LOVE . . . In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,
Golden Heart

[Roy]

"However large may be the public gatherings, but the Father meets personally even in public. But nobody (in the Brahmin family) can understand this deep secret." [Av 30.04.77] - Version meant for those specific Brahmins who have already developed an Avyakt or angelic stage, number-wise, by virtue of which each such soul can experience an exclusive private, personal meeting with BapDada, regardless of the size of the Brahmin gathering. Only Supreme Soul Shiva has be potential to give such an experience to each such soul, simultaneously!

I believe you have interpreted this point accurately.

The ‘innocent’ followers of Ram ShivBaba, who have been trapped in body-consciousness, are not afforded such an experience due to their ‘innocence’ of body-consciousness and therefore become extremely vulnerable to being readily influenced by the adulterated interpretations of their bodily guru, which they accept blindly and keep repeating like a parrot.

Here is an interesting point, which as always i have added my interpretations to in brackets...

“(Shiv)Baba has been to Amarnath as well. Baba saw everything as to how they make the Shivling (naturally in ice). They say that Shankar narrated a story to Parvati there. Well what kind of degradation did Parvati undergo that he sat and narrated the story to her? Actually, you all are Parvatis; you pass through the cycle of birth and death(i.e. pass through the cycle of faith and doubt in the Confluence Age)... and you are listening to the story(i.e the Advance Knowledge, narrated through Shankar) to achieve true salvation(liberation from ignorance and doubts). So, when it was asked there – where is Shivling?... then he said – the Shivling emerges automatically(i.e. Shankar emerges through his study of the Murli; i.e. through the Water of Knowledge, the Ganga, beginning in 1969/70 - this water makes Shankar's organs cool, like ice - that is, he becomes completely bodiless as a result of his studies/churning and Yoga). Arey, how can this be possible? Pigeons are also shown there. Pigeons never learn to speak (the secrets of Advance Knowledge, they only create a mess or obstacles, with their droppings or manmat - i.e. opposing opinions). Parrots speak when they are taught to speak... they are able to recite (the truth, the clarified knowledge narrated by Father Shiv, through Shankar). You (parrots or true Brahmins) wear a bead necklace of knowledge (i.e. a necklace that represents the understanding of ShivBaba's Murli, that has been acquired through Shankar).” [Mu 05.09.08]

So you may want to correct your usage of the word parrot, as i am quite happy to be called a parrot... but would not like to think i am a pigeon, opposing the revelation of the true spiritual Father... Shiv Shankar Bholenath, with my manmat.

[fluffy bunny]

Hi golden heart,

I am a passive observer of this discussion, and am not taking any side, but, just out of interest, could you clarify for me what your personal motivations are?

Can you please just step outside of the 'us' versus 'them, BK versus PBK, mould for a moment, and tell me in simple language what you see is going on?

For example, have you had past experiences with the PBKs and gone back to the BKs? Are you an independent BK now? How do you relate to the BKWSU?

Thanks.

As I say, my position is independent and non-judgmental in this matter.

[arjun]

In stark contrast to the above Shrimat of Supreme Soul Shiva, the chief instrument soul of the Principal Adulterated Trimurti, who is considered as ‘living’ ShivBaba after 1976, wanders and stumbles from place to place, providing ludicrous reasons for doing so, gullibly believed by his ‘innocent’ followers!

ShivBaba does not wander. He goes places to meet His children. And this is not anything surprising because it has been declared in the Avyakt Vani that wherever you establish a mini-Madhubans BapDada will come there. This has not materialized in BKWSU because Avyakt BapDada has been coming only in Mount Abu or Abu Road since 1969. And even that has been becoming less frequent over the years and this year it has almost decreased to a few minutes meeting or no meeting at all.

Moreover, ShivBaba used to visit many places all over India through the body of Brahma Baba. So, why should you worry and defame when the same ShivBaba is visiting places through another medium???

In stark contrast, the chief instrument soul of the Principal Adulterated Trimurti implies JagatAmba to be KDD-S; with whom he had physical sexual intercourse for several years, using various contraceptive methods to avoid pregnancy, after which she leaves him, declares in writing she has nothing to do with AIVV, and gets married to BS and gives birth to two children, son V now aged 11, and daughter C now aged 4, presently living in her second residence, after she left AIVV, at Rishikesh, India. This is clearly the ‘shooting’ of the latter half of The Cycle, and these aspects would be discussed in detail later, having carried out very intimate study and interaction with concerned AIVV surrendered Sisters, including KDS, since 2010, in this specific connection (considered by some AIVV Sisters to be the 18th Chapter of the Gita)!

You say that "Nothing contained herein is directed specifically towards any particular individual, groups of individuals, or any Organization or ideology, with any malice." But in the above statement you are clearly defaming without any proofs, not just one but four individuals, one of whom has left AIVV and two of whom are small children and have never been connected with AIVV and cannot defend themselves on this forum. You have chosen a user name of 'golden heart' but you do not bother about those little hearts. What is their crime for being defamed here? A few years from now when they start using internet and read your above statements, what would their hearts feel dear 'golden heart'?

The soul of Ram implies and justifies that he is the Supreme Father as well as the Supreme Soul, in his discourses, proving himself to be the greatest ‘spiritual idiot’ (maha murkh) in the human realm!

He has nowhere claimed that he is the Supreme Father as well as the Supreme Soul. Either you are misinformed or you have not studied the AIVV literature completely.

No ambiguity whatsoever for any soul with a CLEAR, PURE INTELLECT. APPARENT or FALSE, IMPOSTOR 'Ram ShivBaba', who possesses not only a ‘baby-intellect’ but who is an ‘absolute spiritual idiot’ (maha murkh) to-date, represented by the image of a donkey on the head of Ravan, and who has yet to recognize the accurate roles of either the Parlokik Father or the Alokik Father clearly, and who is thus an orphan, is the chief instrument (mukrar rath) of Ravan, instrumental to indirectly give the inheritance to concerned souls to rule in Ravan Rajya or the Kingdom of Ravan in Copper and Iron Ages. All souls who have to play such roles will be powerfully attracted to this personality, considering him to be the Real 'ShivBaba' – ALL PERFECTLY, as per Drama Plan, of course - NOTHING NEW!

You may have put a disclaimer at the beginning of your post, but the malice in your post directed at a particular individual is clearly evident.

[Golden Heart]

Sweetest, Beloved Golden Hearts,

It is reiterated that NOTHING contained herein is directed specifically towards any particular individual, groups of individuals, or any Organization or ideology, with any malice. Hence any offence which may be inadvertently caused to any particular individual or individuals is deeply regretted, in advance. There is no malice intended towards anyone, WHATSOEVER! Any ‘innocent’ sensitive ‘heart’ which may experience any form of discomfiture is sincerely ‘massaged’ with spiritual compassion and benevolence, in advance! Those who have such sensitive ‘hearts’ are advised to refrain from reading these views to protect themselves from the generation of any inadvertent ill-feelings!
You have been adequately CAUTIONED and WARNED!

We will NOT respond to individual posts or to individuals, specifically, but will take all views into consideration, and will definitely endeavour to respond at appropriate times when so deemed necessary, in general terms, always keeping the overall panoramic picture in proper perspective, thus avoiding the fostering of any inadvertent generation of any futile personal conflicts or tussles.

Classical Opposing Viewpoints - 1

“(Shiv)Baba has been to Amarnath as well. Baba saw everything as to how they make the Shivling (naturally in ice). They say that Shankar narrated a story to Parvati there. Well what kind of degradation did Parvati undergo that he sat and narrated the story to her? Actually, you all are Parvatis; you pass through The Cycle of birth and death (i.e. pass through The Cycle of faith and doubt in the Confluence Age)... and you are listening to the story (i.e the Advanced Knowledge, narrated through Shankar) to achieve true salvation (liberation from ignorance and doubts). So, when it was asked there – where is Shivling?... then he said – the Shivling emerges automatically (i.e. Shankar emerges through his study of the Murli; i.e. through the Water of Knowledge, the Ganga, beginning in 1969/70 - this water makes Shankar's organs cool, like ice - that is, he becomes completely bodiless as a result of his studies/churning and Yoga). Arey, how can this be possible? Pigeons are also shown there. Pigeons never learn to speak (the secrets of Advanced Knowledge, they only create a mess or obstacles, with their droppings or manmat - i.e. opposing opinions). Parrots speak when they are taught to speak... they are able to recite (the truth, the clarified knowledge narrated by Father Shiv, through Shankar). You (parrots or true Brahmins) wear a bead necklace of knowledge (i.e. a necklace that represents the understanding of ShivBaba's Murli, that has been acquired through Shankar).” [Mu 05.09.08]

“Baba (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) has been to Amarnath as well. Baba (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) saw everything as to how they make the ShivLing (naturally in ice). They say that Shankar narrated a story to Parvati there. Well, what kind of degradation did Parvati undergo that he sat and narrated the story to her? Actually, you all are Parvatis; you pass through The Cycle of birth and death ... and you are listening to the story (from Supreme Soul Shiva, through BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) to achieve true salvation. So, when it was asked there – where is ShivLing? ... then he (the Pujari) said – the ShivLing emerges automatically (i.e. Supreme Soul Shiva and Avyakt BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, in the role of Shankar, influence the emergence of the Mayavi part in the Intellect of the soul of last Ram of Silver Age). Arey, how can this be possible? Pigeons are also shown there. Pigeons never learn to speak. Parrots speak when they are taught to speak ... they are able to recite. You wear a bead necklace of knowledge.” [Mu 05.09.08]

In this version BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani’s experience of having visited Amarnath is indicated. Supreme Soul Shiva has no need to go there! Supreme Soul Shiva does not ride on the vehicle or the ‘bull’ the whole day, as erroneously believed by many, being the ‘shooting’ of Ravan Rajya. Supreme Soul Shiva comes in the vehicle, delivers the Murli and LEAVES! This is one of the classical examples which demonstrates the ‘naivety’ of ‘spiritual pigeons’! The soul of last Ram of Silver Age is the number ONE naive (baby-intellect) ‘spiritual pigeon’, who is instrumental to create the ‘dirt or droppings’ of ‘reversed advance’ Knowledge, and he primarily ‘defecates’ onto his own alokik Father, by implying BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani is HK, Ravan, etc., gullibly aped by his ardent followers, which is commemorated by the ‘innocent pigeons’ defecating on the statues of ‘Shankar’ in the outer broad Drama. The soul of last Ram of Silver Age, thus gives ‘birth’ to 8 main and 100 other such ‘spiritual pigeons’ who are always close to him and around him, (as those pigeons are also seen close to and around statues of Shankar, defecating around and on the statues), and who are instrumental to continue the process of creating more ‘dirt and droppings’, by polluting, corrupting and adulterating EACH and EVERY point of Knowledge, which emerged from the Pure Intellect of Supreme Soul Shiva through BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani. These 8 main ‘spiritual pigeons’ in turn ‘defecate’ on the soul of last Ram of Silver Age, by actively and extensively opposing him, according to the Law of Karma; classical example being of D P of the Vishnu Party who was instrumental to get him arrested and jailed on charges of cheating and rape, which were considered to be ‘false’ allegations by his gullible, ardent followers, since they did not have the courage to face these issues in a CLEAN and HONEST manner, and continue to cheat and deceive themselves and others to-date! Simultaneously, 16,000 ‘spiritual parrots’, who have no discriminating intellect of their own, are also given ‘birth’ and are instrumental to keep repeating relentlessly such ‘dirty’ corrupted and adulterated points of Knowledge, with the aim of adversely influencing as many unwary Brahmin souls as possible, allowed in the script of Drama. There are also some specific souls who simultaneously play the role of ‘pigeons’ as well as ‘parrots’, innocently distorting and twisting the original intent of Supreme Soul Shiva by 180 degrees and then keeping on repeating same relentlessly and incessantly. The ‘spiritual pigeons and parrots’ who are thus sustained by the intoxicating ‘faeces' of twisted versions, and 'urine' of blind faith, (commemorated on the Path of Devotion commensurately, and in the life of commons, in the latter part of the Cycle, by the intoxicating ‘drugs’ and ‘alcoholic beverages’), are happy to play their designated roles, being severely under the NESCIENCE of Maya, delusively believing they are IN FACT following the true Shrimat of Supreme Soul Shiva, to receive a great reward in ‘Paradise’; and all others who are endeavouring to highlight the Pure, Unadulterated Knowledge of Supreme Soul Shiva are considered to be following manmat, parmat or kumat! Maya is also happy to see this expanding army of ‘pigeons and parrots’ and ‘blabbering baboons’; the soul of last Ram of Silver Age delusively believing himself to be ‘living ShivBaba’, Supreme Soul, Supreme Father, etc., blatantly denied by some of his perplexed and bewildered followers, whose muddled intellects are not able to keep track of the 'ocean of dirt' generated by their bodily guru! These ‘ravening wolves’ in sheep’s attire are inspired by Maya to cleverly camouflage themselves on the outside, with the original SMs and AVs originating from Supreme Soul Shiva, while continuing to surreptitiously corrupt, pollute and adulterate these pure versions with the ‘dirty’ body-conscious concepts of the Scriptures of Ravan Rajya! They keep on ‘slapping’ the original pure versions extensively, while propagating the ‘dirty’ corrupted Knowledge, to give the impression to the gullible followers and the unwary Brahmins that such corrupted Knowledge, in fact, originates from Supreme Soul Shiva - to be clarified further, as we move on!

As per Drama Plan, the power of Maya has to be EXACTLY EQUAL to the Power of Supreme Soul Shiva in the 'FINAL CONFRONTATION!

Further Classical Opposing Viewpoints to follow . . .

With Eternal, Infinite, Imperishable Divine LOVE . . . In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,
Golden Heart

[arjun]

It is reiterated that NOTHING contained herein is directed specifically towards any particular individual, groups of individuals, or any Organization or ideology, with any malice. Hence any offence which may be inadvertently caused to any particular individual or individuals is deeply regretted, in advance. There is no malice intended towards anyone, WHATSOEVER! Any ‘innocent’ sensitive ‘heart’ which may experience any form of discomfiture is sincerely ‘massaged’ with spiritual compassion and benevolence, in advance! Those who have such sensitive ‘hearts’ are advised to refrain from reading these views to protect themselves from the generation of any inadvertent ill-feelings!

You have already caused irreparable damage (to the small children by naming them). So, your mechanical statements that any offence is deeply regretted does not hold any value. A regret is a regret in real sense only when you don't repeat such things. You commit a mistake and then defend it and repeat it. In such a case the regret is of no value whatsoever.

We will NOT respond to individual posts or to individuals, specifically, but will take all views into consideration, and will definitely endeavour to respond at appropriate times when so deemed necessary, in general terms, always keeping the overall panoramic picture in proper perspective, thus avoiding the fostering of any inadvertent generation of any futile personal conflicts or tussles.

A convenient way to avoid a direct interaction. Those who claim to be direct children of God and defame others using bad words should also have the courage to face replies. But I don't think you have that courage because you have been tutored by some bodily guru. So, please repeat whatever you have been tutored to say instead of discussing the points of knowledge.

[Golden Heart]

Sweetest, Beloved Golden Hearts,

Classical Opposing Viewpoints - 2

"Those who remember Father above (in the Soul World) follow the path of worship because they do not know the occupation. They do not know his name, form, country, and time." [Mu 14.10.68]

"Those who remember the Father above follow the path of worship, because they do not know the occupation; they do not know His name, form, country, and time." [Mu 14.10.68]

Those who remember Supreme Soul Shiva above, WITHOUT his correct introduction, follow the path of Worship (for souls in the outer broad Drama, on the path of devotion).
Those who remember Supreme Soul Shiva in a body (whether GROSS or SUBTLE) in Sangamyug, WITH the corrupted introduction, adulterated by bodily gurus, follow the path of ‘Warship’ (for souls involved in the shooting of ‘Bhakti’ in the latter part of Sangamyug, after 1969)!
Those who remember and ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE Supreme Soul Shiva where HE IS, WITH the correct, pure, unadulterated introduction, explicitly clarified DIRECTLY by Him through the medium of the sole Chariot of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, follow the path of Knowledge and are therefore SUCCESSFUL and VICTORIOUS. They are unperturbed and unfazed by the stupid and ‘childish’ allegations levelled against them by the ignorant followers of bodily gurus, who are doomed to perdition, as per Plan of Drama, unless they REALIZE the correct situation NOW, with their REAL-EYES and make amends accordingly, for their own benefit, since it is still NOT TOO LATE . . .
All concerned have been FAIRLY and ADEQUATELY CAUTIONED and WARNED in advance, and will have NO ROOM WHATSOEVER to feign ignorance at the time of the FINAL RECKONING, since these WORDS will EMERGE in their Intellect with ABSOLUTE CLARITY at that TIME!

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Further Classical Opposing Viewpoints to follow . . .

With Eternal, Infinite, Imperishable Divine LOVE . . . In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,
Golden Heart

[arjun]

Those who remember Supreme Soul Shiva in a body (whether GROSS or SUBTLE) in Sangamyug, WITH the corrupted introduction, adulterated by bodily gurus, follow the path of ‘Warship’ (for souls involved in the shooting of ‘Bhakti’ in the latter part of Sangamyug, after 1969)!

This is your personal opinion. ShivBaba's Murlis say quite the opposite. If you wish I can provide proofs to the contrary, but since you are already under the influence of some bodily guru, I think it would be waste of time providing the proofs. You have deliberately chosen the opposite path. So, I will provide proofs only if you wish.