Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

[fluffy bunny]

Golden Heart,

can you actually speak (write) like a normal human being for one moment?

What is your history with the BKs and the PBKs?

(Please drop the propaganda war for one moment and just be like a normal human being).

[arjun]

Why do people (PBKs, in particular - in the 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age) study the (TRUE) Gita (SMs and AVs) so much? THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING AT ALL! THEY (the DoG and his gullible followers) JUST TAKE UP A FEW CHAPTERS (random Versions in SMs and AVs) AND EXTRACT THEIR OWN MEANING FROM THEM ! All of that is created by human beings (the DoG and his gullible followers - DELUSIVELY claiming same to be the 'Murlis' or Versions of GOD)! YOU can tell them: By your studying the (FALSE) Gita written by human beings (the DoG, masquerading as Confluence Age Krishna, and his gullible followers), this has become the (degraded) condition of today (in the Yagya, after 1969) !

Dear golden heart,
Your interpretation of the above Murli point is absolutely misplaced. Instead of the PBKs, it is applicable to the BKs (or BKWSU to be more specific). The PBKs insist on the original complete Murlis (especially those narrated before 1969. ShivBaba through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit has been clarifying those original Murlis being gathered from different sources. While the BKWSU has been revising, editing, cutting and manipulating the original Murlis every five years to produce a shortened, toned-down version of the original Murlis which is useful for the BKWSU, especially cutting the points applicable to AIVV and those which may create controversies in the outside world. So, it is the BKs who have been studying the false Gita and not the PBKs. It is because of studying the edited and manipulated Murlis that the BKWSU has reached such a degraded stage.

[Golden Heart]

Sweetest, Beloved Golden Hearts,

1. TODAY, the Father (S S S), the Bestower of Fortune, IS SEEING His most elevated, fortunate Children of the World. GOD, HIMSELF, is singing praise of the fortune of each Child. Souls anyway sing praise of God all the time, but GOD, HIMSELF, is praising YOU Children NOW ! ! ! Did YOU ever think, even in your dreams, that your fortune could be so elevated? However, IT WAS ALREADY CREATED ! Although people of the World (PBKs, in particular – in the ‘shooting’ period of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age) say that God created them (being TOTALLY unaware that the DoG is masquerading as GOD), they (PBKs, in particular) NEITHER KNOW GOD (S S S) NOR HIS CREATION (principal rulers of G A and S A) ! ! ! EACH OF YOU fortunate Children SAY FROM EXPERIENCE AND WITH SPIRITUAL PRIDE that YOU are a Brahma Kumar or a Brahma Kumari who belongs to the clan of Shiva. “WE KNOW how BapDada has created us.” Whether you are a small Child or a mature Pandava or Shakti, if anyone asks you who your Father is, what would you reply? You would say with pride that you were created by Father Shiva (S S S) through Father Brahma (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) and THIS IS WHY YOU ARE GOD’S CHILDREN. YOU MEET GOD DIRECTLY ! Not only do you say that He is God and your Father, but that He is your Father, Teacher and Satguru ! ! !
(NO DOUBT, WHATSOEVER, that GOD MEETS HIS CHILDREN, in Avyakt also, THROUGH DG !)
(The DoG and his gullible followers have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE as to what is actually going on, since they have TOTALLY DIVORCED themselves from meeting GOD even in Avyakt, due to their INVERTED INTELLECTS ! ! !)

2. From the form of the Father, you experience Godly sustenance. This Godly sustenance is received just once throughout the whole cycle in this Brahmin life through which souls experience being embodiments of all attainments. God’s love enables you to experience all relationships. GOD’S LOVE ENABLES YOU TO FORGET THE CONSCIOUSNESS OF YOUR BODIES. As well as this, it also makes you forget all selfish love. YOU are such fortunate souls who are being sustained by God with His love! How fortunate YOU souls are that the Father, Himself, LEAVES HIS HOME and comes to teach YOU, Godly students.
(The DoG and his gullible followers CLEARLY CANNOT comprehend the Pure Versions of GOD, due to their CORRUPTED, PERVERTED and INVERTED INTELLECTS ! ! !)

3. For your practical actions in the corporeal form, follow Father Brahma (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani). In your incorporeal stage, in becoming bodiless, follow Father Shiva (S S S). To follow both Bap (S S S) and Dada (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) means to finish all questions and to follow Shrimat.
(To follow the DoG, masquerading as GOD or APPARENT-FALSE ShivBaba, means to keep on generating more and more questions and to follow manmat, parmat, kumat, Mayavimat or Ravanmat ! ! !)

4. You receive blessings from the Satguru (S S S) every day!

Blessing:
When someone who is burning in the fire of anger comes in front of you and insults and defames you, then, with your good wishes, pure feelings, through your attitude and your stage, give that soul the donation of virtues and the blessing of the power of tolerance. An angry soul is under an external influence, and so cool such a soul down with the cool water of MERCY. This is the duty of you souls who are bestowers of blessings. It is because YOU, in the living form, are filled with such Sanskars that the devotees receive blessings through your non-living images.

THOSE WHO HAVE A CLEAR, PURE, DIVINE INTELLECT TO PERCEIVE, LET THEM PERCEIVE !!!

With Eternal, Infinite, Imperishable Divine LOVE . . . In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,
Golden Heart

[fluffy bunny]

... due to their CORRUPTED, PERVERTED and INVERTED INTELLECTS ! ! !)

Something that has been proven beyond any doubt is that the BKWSU leader has, and is, corrupting and perverting both the Murlis and the history of their religion, and that they have twisted it and inverted it from what it first was. And from it's original roots in Bhakti. Yes, Bhakti came first and most of Lekhraj Kirpalani's ideas from it and outside, e.g. other religions and movements.

Therefore to throw about such insults as you do is worse than "the pot calling the kettle black".

Can you admit this? It is a fact.

Under such distortions, can the BKs be having "accurate Yoga"?

One of the interesting points for me is that between 1932 and 1955/6 there was no knowledge or mention of God Shiva or the supreme 'bhindi' in the religion at all. None at all. There was no God Shiva. That is the fact.

Therefore, when the corrupt and dishonest BK leaders claim to have been "purifying themselves" in the intense bhatti and Beggary Period ... how could they? If you can only purify yourself via accurate remembrance, and they did not know who to remember, how could they purify themselves?

Of course, I will expect you to absolutely ignore this.

Likewise, when they claim to have been persecuted for following "purity" ... but it turns out they were claiming the impure Lekhraj Kirpalani was God and insulting everyone else calling them devils (Kans) and so on ... what does "purity" mean to the Brahma Kumaris? Clearly not what it means to the rest of us.

We have a saying, "people in a glass house should not throw stones".

Now, please don't insult anyone any more with your conceitedness and instead just speak to us like normal, equal human beings.

What is your history with the BKs and PBKs?

How can the Murlis say, "have no pictures of Lekhraj Kirpalani" and then the leaders carry on for decades printing bigger and bigger pictures or more and more of themselves? To me it seems every time they do, they get further and further away from the truth ... and prove themselves to be corrupters, perverters and upside down.

And that is the fact. Pot. Kettle. Black.

[fluffy bunny]

It strikes me the BKs have re-interpreted the word "pure" to mean

• "... conforming to whatever their leaders tell them this week and not questioning it when they change it next week".

Just this one fact ... 'No Shiva until after 1955" ... turns their whole world upside down.

Was Lekhraj Kirpalani "pure" when they were remembering him as God between 1936 and 1956? If so, where they not remembering the most impure human being? A human being deluded to think they were God.

And since then the leaders have continued to lie to cover up their stupidity and insulting nature. How can that and they be pure?

[arjun]

Now, please don't insult anyone any more with your conceitedness and instead just speak to us like normal, equal human beings.

I don't think golden heart will do that as long his/her heart is full of hatred for Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and PBKs.

GOD’S LOVE ENABLES YOU TO FORGET THE CONSCIOUSNESS OF YOUR BODIES.

Do those who have forgotten the consciousness of their bodies get their bodies decorated like this in front of everyone using the hard earned money donated by poor mothers in bondage???????

Three Dadis-crowned.jpg (42.07 KiB) Viewed 13818 times

The standard reply of die-hard BKs is that the above Dadis are in an incorporeal stage. They don't have any attachment for all these decorations. They are doing it just for the sake of the satisfaction of new BKs. If they are really soul conscious can they wear coloured sarees like normal people of the world???? I don't think any of the surrendered BK sisters all over the world have the spiritual strength to wear coloured dresses. All their soul consciousness will vanish if they are asked to wear coloured dress.

[Golden Heart]

Sweetest, Beloved Golden Hearts,

1. This Meeting of the Father (S S S) and the Children is so Lovely. Each Child is celebrating a Meeting with Love and Enthusiasm. This Love enables you to forget all sorrow, in the Father’s Love and Relationship. Wah, the meeting of the Father with the Children, Wah! The Father (S S S) is pleased to see the Children and the Children are happy to see the Father.
2. The Father is pleased to see each and every Child, and the Children are also pleased to see the Father, in the corporeal form. THIS ALOKIK MEETING IS SO UNIQUE AND LOVELY !!!
3. THIS MEETING OF THE Father (S S S) AND THE CHILDREN IS SO UNIQUE AND LOVELY !!!
4. Who resides in each one’s heart? You would say, “My BABA”, and what would the Father say?
No matter how many Children there are and wherever they may be, each one is in the HEART and this is why you call the Father, “Dilaram”. Seeing each and every Child in the corporeal form, the Father (S S S) is so pleased, and the Children and the Father know this. Are all of you pleased in your hearts? Raise your hands!
5. So, today is the day of a meeting in the corporeal form. THE Father (S S S) IS SEEING YOU CHILDREN AND YOU CHILDREN ARE SEEING THE Father (S S S) ! ! ! Do all of you remain constantly happy?
6. The matter of meeting personally is a different matter, BUT YOU CAN MEET THE Father (S S S) IN YOUR HEART WHENEVER YOU WANT, and the Father, too, continues to celebrate a meeting. The Father too cannot be at ease without the Children. The part of the Father and the Children, CONSTANTLY celebrating a meeting, is predestined at the Confluence Age.
TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU REMEMBER HIM, YOU CAN MAKE HIM EMERGE ACCORDINGLY ! ! !
7. IT IS NECESSARY TO DRINK THE NECTAR OF 'THE TIME OF NECTAR’ (Amrit Vela), AND DEFINITELY TO CONTINUE TO USE THIS TIME IN A WORTHWHILE WAY.

NO DOUBT, WHATSOEVER, that GOD MEETS HIS CHILDREN, in Avyakt also, THROUGH DG !
(and NOT through the DoG, who TRICKS his gullible followers LOCK, STOCK and BARREL, and keeps their INTELLECTS in the VICIOUS GRIP of Maya or Ravan, making them DELUSIVELY BELIEVE that he is personified ShivBaba - WHAT A MARVELLOUS DRAMA - VERY ENTERPRISING, ENCHANTING and ENTERTAINING INDEED ! ! !)
The DoG and his gullible followers have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE as to what is actually going on, since they have TOTALLY DIVORCED themselves from meeting GOD even in Avyakt, due to their INVERTED INTELLECTS ! ! !

OBVIOUSLY, those who CANNOT recognize the ACCURATE role of GOD in Confluence Age, and those who BLINDLY and GULLIBLY follow the DoG, masquerading as ShivBaba, being the Godly Form of Maya or Ravan, WOULD CONTINUE TO BE PERPLEXED; and instead of making a fresh attempt to VERIFY the ACTUAL TRUTH about GOD, would, as per their ‘governing’ Sanskars, continue to hurl abuses and insults at ANYONE who tries to CLARIFY the ACTUAL TRUTH about GOD, – ALL, PERFECTLY AS PER DRAMA PLAN, OF COURSE – NOTHING NEW ! ! !
The MAIN CONCERN of these DEMONS, masquerading as ‘normal human beings’ & ‘angels of light’, is with the DEMONS which are in the process of being evicted from the consciousness of the TRUE Children of GOD - and NOT with GOD ! ! ! THUS, inadvertently imbibing DEMONIAC QUALITIES, in this manner, their spiritual condition PROGRESSIVELY WORSENS DAY BY DAY ! ! !
Maya or Ravan EATS THEM RAW, WITHOUT THEY EVEN REALIZING WHAT IS ACTUALLY TAKING PLACE !

HAVE MERCY ON THEM !
FORGIVE THEM – FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY SPEAK AND WHAT THEY DO ! ! !

THOSE WHO HAVE A CLEAR, PURE, DIVINE INTELLECT TO PERCEIVE, LET THEM PERCEIVE !!!

With Eternal, Infinite, Imperishable Divine LOVE . . . In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,
Golden Heart

[fluffy bunny]

You are discussing, Golden Heart. You are 'talking at'. Concreting over with yet another layer of concrete ... using copied sentence structures to beat others down.

Actually, what you are trying to beat down and repress are voices in your own head.

At the same time keeping up a noise - repeating BK Knowledge - to drown out other voices in your own head that question and doubt it.

[arjun]

NO DOUBT, WHATSOEVER, that GOD MEETS HIS CHILDREN, in Avyakt also, THROUGH DG !

Please go through the following post made by me on this forum/brahmakumaris.info in the past in this regard:

"When Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) was alive ShivBaba used to enter into him whenever He wished. He also used to narrated Murlis almost everyday morning and many a times even in the nights. Apart from this the knowledge narrated while meeting the children personally or in parties was also supposed to be considered as Murlis. This process continued from 1947-48 to 1969.

After the demise of Brahma Baba in 1969, the BKs thought that the Supreme Father Shiva had returned to the Soul World and once in a while enters into the body of BK Gulzar Dadi along with the subtle body of Brahma Baba (who was supposed to be living in the Subtle Region after leaving his body). But as per the belief of Advance Party or AIVV based on the clarification of Murlis and Avyakt Vanis given by ShivBaba through the medium of Baba Veerendra Deo Dixit (whom we consider to be Prajapita or Shankar), it is only the soul of Dada Lekhraj which enters into the body of Dadi Gulzar to narrate Avyakt Vanis. Cogent proofs are available for this and have already been discussed in separate topics.

In the beginning, the frequency of Avyakt Vanis was almost every alternative days. Avyakt Vanis used to be narrated almost throughout the year. But slowly the frequency reduced to weekly once, that too only for a few months from October/November to March/April. Now the frequency has further reduced to just once or twice in a month.

The reason for this gap in the narration of Avyakt Vanis is that it is not the Supreme Soul Shiva but the human soul of Dada Lekhraj (Brahma) which enters into the body of BK Gulzar Dadi to narrate Avyakt Vanis.

The Supreme Soul Shiva possesses neither his own physical body nor a subtle body. So when the Supreme Soul Shiva enters into a human body, there is no physical effect on the body in which He is entering. There was no physical changes inBrahma, and even Brahma used to simultaneously hear whatever was being narrated by ShivBaba through him. Whereas, the soul of Dada Lekhraj has a own physical body by that name. And when he left that body, he continued to possess a subtle body with those features. When such a soul of Dada Lekhraj enters into the physical body of Dadi Gulzar along with its subtle body, it has a physical effect on the body of Dadi Gulzar. This can be proved by the physical jerk that Dadi Gulzar experiences as soon as the soul of Dada Lekhraj enters into her. All her physical features change, like the continuously smiling radiant face, voice in whispers, bare minimum body movement for long-long hours (even 12 hours at a stretch witnessed by me personally), without any pain being reflected on the face. The soul of Dada Lekhraj overpowers the body of Dadi Gulzar, who loses her self-consciousness as long as the Avyakt Vani is narrated. After the soul of Dada Lekhraj leaves her body, she regains her self consciousness, but does not remember anything from the Avyakt Vani that is narrated through her. She reads the printed Avyakt Vani later on to know what was narrated through her body.

Apart from this ShivBaba has said in the Murlis narrated through Dada Lekhraj (Brahma) that Shiva does not come on being requested by someone. He comes running, whenever he wishes. The date, time and place of the birth (i.e. horoscope) of human souls can be recorded, but the date and time of the divine birth (i.e. entry into some other soul’s human body) of the Supreme Soul Shiva cannot be recorded. Hence, when the dates of narration of Avyakt Vanis are being fixed many days in advance, it proves beyond doubt that it is only a human soul (Dada Lekhraj) who is entering into the body of Dadi Gulzar.

It is because of the physical effect that is caused by the entry of the soul of Dada Lekhraj along with its subtle body into Dadi Gulzar that the frequency of Avyakt Vanis has been reducing with every passing year.

The soul of Dada Lekhraj has been entering into the body of Dadi Gulzar since 1969. The entry of the soul of Dada Lekhraj into Dadi Gulzar on particular dates ever since 1969 is fixed many days in advance based on the programme fixed through trance messages delivered by some sisters, who have the privilege of officially getting trancemessages."

[fluffy bunny]

"When Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) was alive ShivBaba used to enter into him whenever He wished. He also used to narrated Murlis almost everyday morning and many a times even in the nights. Apart from this The Knowledge narrated while meeting the children personally or in parties was also supposed to be considered as Murlis. This process continued from 1947-48 to 1969."

How do we interpret this now, given that we know there was no mention of Shiva until sometime after 1955 and that the Om Mandlites consider Lekhraj Kirpalani to be god?

What "Knowledge", or part of the knowledge precisely, was Lekhraj Kirpalani speaking during the 1947 to (say) 1956 period ... it would seem to be very, very little.

OK ... if we are to accept that Shiva was popping into Lekhraj Kirpalani's head - and was so subtle that even Lekhraj Kirpalani did not realise it - how are we to tell which bits were his own thinking and which parts were the Shiva soul's? How do we know it was not ALL just Lekhraj Kirpalani's thoughts?

Was Shiva giving Lekhraj Kirpalani wrong thoughts? (Because, obviously he was speaking and they were believing clearly wrong thoughts). Why would Shiva inspire beliefs that he did not exist and that the soul would just merge back into Brahma (Divine Light)?

If it took Lekhraj Kirpalani from 1947 (when the PBKs claim the first Chariot died) until 1956 to reveal the truth ... what on earth did they spend all their time doing during that period!?!

Is there any evidence - as in published documents/letters etc - that suggest the original Chariot or medium knew and understood about Shiva and a separate god and that the Brahma Kumaris then covered up and actually suppressed that view in opposition to worshipping their Krishna Lekhraj Kirpalani?

By evidence, I don't mean interpretations of the Murlis. I mean, actually documents or reliable witness statements.

This would be value even for the PBKs to find as it would prove the Brahma Kumaris' sanskar is to suppress and cover up truth in order to re-direct attention (time, money and energy) to them and their Krishna.

It seems logical that they might have because they are still doing so. They are at a stunted level of spiritual growth, and stunting others so they do not grow more than them.

They are like the beggars who break the bones of their children so their children (BK followers) can earn more from begging and they can live off them.

[arjun]

What "Knowledge", or part of The Knowledge precisely, was Lekhraj Kirpalani speaking during the 1947 to (say) 1956 period ... it would seem to be very, very little.

There is very little evidence of that period in the form of Murlis. So, we cannot say. Most of the original Murlis found are of the post 1955 period.

how are we to tell which bits were his own thinking and which parts were the Shiva soul's? How do we know it was not ALL just Lekhraj Kirpalani's thoughts?

The difference can be made out by the portions of knowledge and the portions of experience from Brahma Baba's own life.

If it took Lekhraj Kirpalani from 1947 (when the PBKs claim the first Chariot died) until 1956 to reveal the truth ... what on earth did they spend all their time doing during that period!?!

According to the PBKs the original Chariot died much earlier perhaps the end of 1941 because Baba Virendra Dev Dixit was born in early 1942.
The period of 1947 to 1955 was perhaps spent explaining the basics of BK knowledge. And of course the part of causing visions continued. So, most of the new members were mesmerised by the visions rather than the Knowledge.

Is there any evidence - as in published documents/letters etc - that suggest the original Chariot or medium knew and understood about Shiva and a separate god and that the Brahma Kumaris then covered up and actually suppressed that view in opposition to worshipping their Krishna Lekhraj Kirpalani?

I am not aware of any such evidence, but most of the photos of the early period from 1947 onwards do show that the BKs revered Brahma Baba like a God.

This would be value even for the PBKs to find as it would prove the Brahma Kumaris' sanskar is to suppress and cover up truth in order to re-direct attention (time, money and energy) to them and their Krishna.

It seems logical that they might have because they are still doing so. They are at a stunted level of spiritual growth, and stunting others so they do not grow more than them.

They are like the beggars who break the bones of their children so their children (BK followers) can earn more from begging and they can live off them.

They have become experts at that.

[fluffy bunny]

According to the PBKs the original Chariot died much earlier perhaps the end of 1941 because Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit was born in early 1942.

The period of 1947 to 1955 was perhaps spent explaining the basics of BK knowledge. And of course the part of causing visions continued. So, most of the new members were mesmerised by the visions rather than The Knowledge.

Sorry, I stand corrected on that 1947. Actually, from my research, I would suspect that the partner actually left even earlier in the 30s then died later.

I don't know but I'd start asking about when what I know as "the golden circle" left/were pushed out. I have not found much information about it/them except the suggest that perhaps Dadi Janki's sister was involved as a medium or channeller.

I can accept the 'working theory' that there was a more responsible group within the Om Mandli and that they lost influence to the Lekhraj Kirpalani worshippers and were pushed out or had to leave for spiritual or ethical reasons. When or 'IF' Lekhraj Kirpalani ever really become the Chariot is another question. He may have been under the influence but he certainly did not become the perfect Chariot during his lifetime. I would agree with that too.

However, I have to ask what "basics of BK knowledge" Lekhraj Kirpalani really spent all this time explaining as there really was not very much. I mean, you could simmer it down to a few sentences.

I also wonder when Lekhraj Kirpalani spent his time tutoring the women on just general life skills and business as, in my opinion, BKism is clearly based on the Bhaibund business model. I cannot believe Lekhraj Kirpalani, as a successful business man, spent 24 hours, 7 days a week just saying, "I am a soul". I have to believe that at least he spent sometime tutoring the girls on how to start up and run the business of the religion. Perhaps not all had the brains to learn so and many could not grasp what was being said any more than they could question the logic of the philosophy but he must have gone walking and talking with small groups and they must have asked something about his life previous to his initiation.

I think it's sad we don't have a clearer, more mature vision of him. Honestly, the infantile sanctification BKs are doing is inane, disgusting and corrupt from a spiritual point of view ... all those Bollywood sized portraits and so on.

[arjun]

However, I have to ask what "basics of BK knowledge" Lekhraj Kirpalani really spent all this time explaining as there really was not very much. I mean, you could simmer it down to a few sentences.

The basic knowledge related to the soul, the Supreme Soul and the world cycle.

I also wonder when Lekhraj Kirpalani spent his time tutoring the women on just general life skills and business as, in my opinion, BKism is clearly based on the Bhaibund business model. I cannot believe Lekhraj Kirpalani, as a successful business man, spent 24 hours, 7 days a week just saying, "I am a soul". I have to believe that at least he spent sometime tutoring the girls on how to start up and run the business of the religion. Perhaps not all had the brains to learn so and many could not grasp what was being said any more than they could question the logic of the philosophy but he must have gone walking and talking with small groups and they must have asked something about his life previous to his initiation.

This might be true to some extent. And this was reflected in the ideas of serving people through sweets, big museums, centers, large pictures, translight, serving the VIPs, exhibitions, conferences, etc. What he taught as basics of service have been taken to an extreme level of advertisement and appeasement of the wealthy by his mouth-born progeny (the BKs) post his demise.

[fluffy bunny]

The basic knowledge related to the soul, the Supreme Soul and the world cycle.

But there was no Supreme Soul in their philosophy ... the knowledge of the Tree/Cycle was incorrect (except for the 5,000 years bit).

This is all they had, Arjun. There was no knowledge. 20 odd years ... you could teach it in 3 minutes.

[rmn]

My dear soul brothers/
When Shiva enters in brahma baba said that, when i enters and teaches Murli this (brahma) soul also listen the Murli. This point does not applicable for the divine bk dadiji- guljar.
thx
rmn