Also entitled: The Philosophy of Lie
If someone tells Baba that he committed the sin of lying, then half of that sin is forgiven. Without injecting fear or guilt to anyone, I believe this statement is metaphorically true but is rather "weak" in the sense that we cannot simply know or prove how it works. Perhaps the conscience "feels" a "sense of security" and courage to make amends by confessing to God.
But what about the other half? One either needs to cover this up, or make amends and by doing the latter, one liberates himself from the burden of falsehood. I have noticed a lot of members here are in search of truth no matter how arrogant they may appear to be. I realized also that truth works in such a way that if you embody it (part of it becoming completely transparent in all your dealings), then negativity in the form of accusations, allegations, etc. will simply melt and disappear.
Being anonymous is not entirely bad if the person behind it tells 100% truth. Numerous examples can be cited just imagine a crime scene where in the witness needs to protect himself. The issue needs to be looked at by the people involved and not pin point the person behind it acting in good faith. Is this fair enough? If I am a person that embodies the truth, then no matter how something is presented to me, I stand the test of disturbance.
On the contrary, if you are in the company of falsehood (e.g. had started a story based on lies) and did not make any amends, then you would end up struggling for the rest of your life. In my opinion, a lot of Seniors are starting to become warriors in the field of their own minds due to the cover-ups and/or the test of disturbance. And if such metaphorical Silver Age era does exist in time, then they can potentially fall into that category.
How many of us in this forum enjoys simply writing good and honest stuffs, in the awareness that truth gets revealed? Please raise your hand. Just the "Right" hand. Are you able to sleep peacefully at night and not waking up for Amrit Vela because you have good dreams or just in deep sleep? Then, accept TinyDot's congratulations.
To the most honest and most truthful amongst my brothers and sisters, to the most courageous souls who continue to post here for the revelation of truth, to the effort makers who remain extra cautious to working out for the integrity of this website, love, remembrances, and namaste from your tiny soul Brother/Sister, TinyDot.
The Philosophy of Truth
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fluffy bunny
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I think it is very important that we commit ourselves to Truth. Not the trademarked version of "truth" that Gyan has become but the capital 'T' Truth.
For someone that is openly critical of the practises that the evidence I have present here documents, I am very uncomfortable when forum members use the anonymity of the forum to grind an axe or present an exaggerated twist to the story. There is no need to, the truth is weird enough.
Of course, the BKs would accuse me of twisting and exaggerating but, honestly, I tried very hard to measure my input and hold back from publishing a load of stuff that I know or have been provided with. I know a quite a few other individuals who are in the same situation. I think the BKWSU does not realise how much support for what we are doing is out there.
I was inspire by M. Scott Peck's short book "People of the Lie" and cant recommend it strongly enough for anyone involved in this "spirituality" business. It details the manner in which malevolent spiritual entities (whether real or sub-conscious) or human's can work their way through societies and the author points the finger and the vaste grey, morally lazy, majority for being the rich soil in which they are able to spread. The People of the Lie he calls them
My issue is that as soon as we enter into these opaque, mutable, constantly changing psychic realms it is almost impossible to know what is real and not real, right and wrong, truth or lies. It all become a test of what is and is not Maya.
The falsehood is now undeniable, it is the extent of the falsehood that is at question. This is not to deny any good within either the individuals or the organization ... it is to underline that the removal of falsehood is what we committed to at the beginning of our spiritual lives and it must happen at an individual and organizational level.
For someone that is openly critical of the practises that the evidence I have present here documents, I am very uncomfortable when forum members use the anonymity of the forum to grind an axe or present an exaggerated twist to the story. There is no need to, the truth is weird enough.
Of course, the BKs would accuse me of twisting and exaggerating but, honestly, I tried very hard to measure my input and hold back from publishing a load of stuff that I know or have been provided with. I know a quite a few other individuals who are in the same situation. I think the BKWSU does not realise how much support for what we are doing is out there.
I was inspire by M. Scott Peck's short book "People of the Lie" and cant recommend it strongly enough for anyone involved in this "spirituality" business. It details the manner in which malevolent spiritual entities (whether real or sub-conscious) or human's can work their way through societies and the author points the finger and the vaste grey, morally lazy, majority for being the rich soil in which they are able to spread. The People of the Lie he calls them
My issue is that as soon as we enter into these opaque, mutable, constantly changing psychic realms it is almost impossible to know what is real and not real, right and wrong, truth or lies. It all become a test of what is and is not Maya.
The falsehood is now undeniable, it is the extent of the falsehood that is at question. This is not to deny any good within either the individuals or the organization ... it is to underline that the removal of falsehood is what we committed to at the beginning of our spiritual lives and it must happen at an individual and organizational level.
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arjun
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Come on tinydot, you cannot copy Avyakt BapDada's style. :evil: You know it has been copyrighted by a spiritual Corporation :lol: try and evolve a new style :wink:.tinydot wrote:To the most honest and most truthful amongst my Brothers and Sisters, to the most courageous souls who continue to post here for the revelation of truth, to the effort makers who remain extra cautious to working out for the integrity of this website, love, remembrances, and namaste from your tiny soul Brother/Sister, TinyDot.
In India, the crime situation is such that most people do not want to present themselves as witnesses in the court. There have been many famous cases where the incidents of violence were even captured on TV cameras, but when the case went to the Court nobody came to give witness. Even if some witnesses muster courage to give their evidence, they are threatened, they are not provided police protection, many get killed by the opposite party. Most witnesses turn hostile. A Professor (Sabharwal) was beaten up by student union members in Madhya Pradesh state in the full glare of the TV cameras. The Professor died on the spot. But the only person who came forward as witness turned hostile due to the political pressure.Being anonymous is not entirely bad if the person behind it tells 100% truth. Numerous examples can be cited just imagine a crime scene where in the witness needs to protect himself. The issue needs to be looked at by the people involved and not pin point the person behind it acting in good faith. Is this fair enough? If I am a person that embodies the truth, then no matter how something is presented to me, I stand the test of disturbance.
Yesterday I was watching a news programme, where some witnesses were beaten by the friends and relatives of the accused even while the witnesses were accompanied by few policemen. How would anyone come forward to tender witness?
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
Nice try Arjun ...
But seriously speaking, I find Vasanti Patel's comment a bit inaccurate. It all depends on the severity of the complaint and the indisputable evidence the complainant presented. And who is filing a complaint? The BKWSU? In our highly transparent "Draft Open Letter to BKWSU (work in progress), we are exploring avenues of problem resolution. We are NOT COMPLAINING, but we are attempting to present a documentation of Questions, Anomalies and Comments for which we need answers from BKWSU.
To cut it short, WE ARE STUDENTS OF THIS SPIRITUAL UNIVERSITY IN WHICH WE NEED ANSWERS TO A LOT OF QUESTIONS THEY ARE TEACHING. IF THEY ARE A UNIVERSITY, then it is their responsibility to attempt to answer questions from students. That rule is as simple as ABC, 123!
2. The investigator looks for any violations of the law and the evidence presented by the complainant. If there is no violation, the complaint is simply dismissed.
Again, we are not filing a complaint but asking questions. That is the best English sentence I can think of.
Is BKWSU a spiritual university that teaches and answers (or at least attempts to answer) questions?
Or is it a 'social university' that is interested in personal meetings and VIP parties?
But seriously speaking, I find Vasanti Patel's comment a bit inaccurate. It all depends on the severity of the complaint and the indisputable evidence the complainant presented. And who is filing a complaint? The BKWSU? In our highly transparent "Draft Open Letter to BKWSU (work in progress), we are exploring avenues of problem resolution. We are NOT COMPLAINING, but we are attempting to present a documentation of Questions, Anomalies and Comments for which we need answers from BKWSU.
To cut it short, WE ARE STUDENTS OF THIS SPIRITUAL UNIVERSITY IN WHICH WE NEED ANSWERS TO A LOT OF QUESTIONS THEY ARE TEACHING. IF THEY ARE A UNIVERSITY, then it is their responsibility to attempt to answer questions from students. That rule is as simple as ABC, 123!
1. In the US, a complaint form can be obtained from the State Attorney General's office and as far as the State where I live is concerned, there is a provision in the form where you can choose to remain anonymous. You present the facts, and if the investigator is convinced of the evidence, your case is entertained. They take litigation cases once they found serious and valid offense.Vasanti Patel wrote:Om Shanti,
Agree with Simon, but also one other major things is to do with talking to someone who is anonymous. In most places any complaints made by anonymous people are ignored - they have no real value and so we want to make thing real and work with real people.
But even putting this aside, our next response, if there is going to be one, has to make it clear that we are not interested in anything else except a personal meeting. As we can see on the forum they are having masses of discussion about this. They want us to continue with emails if not forum - but we cannot play ball with that one I don’t think.
Anyway, just some thoughts from me.
IBY
Vasanti
2. The investigator looks for any violations of the law and the evidence presented by the complainant. If there is no violation, the complaint is simply dismissed.
Again, we are not filing a complaint but asking questions. That is the best English sentence I can think of.
Is BKWSU a spiritual university that teaches and answers (or at least attempts to answer) questions?
Or is it a 'social university' that is interested in personal meetings and VIP parties?
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fluffy bunny
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Generally, Baba also lays down that a sin, committed by a BK is many to thousand times worse that a sin committed by a non-BK. In this context, I would like to remind readers of the grounds of one of the other trademark;
Is this a fair and honest representation inline with Shrimat, fair and honest representation of the contortions the current leadership is performing in order to fit into two worlds or fair and honest representation of what the organization actually is?
My feeling is that "the Laws of the Land" have their own limited karma, be they right or wrong, but they are only human made, temporary and mutable. Truth, let us call it "the Laws of the Soul" ... in theory ... are perceived of "Platonic Absolutes"; eternal right and wrongs, fixed, invisible but mechanistic. That is to say, we are led to believe there exists an ulimate code for spiritual being in this realm and if traversed, the soul cannot fail to suffer.
To make examples; the laws of the land might punish you for killing but spiritually, killing in a certain incident might be the right thing to do and rewarded (we have debated this over Bap-Dada Shrimat given to soldiers). By ethical codes of one society, lying might considered bad practise and have an immediate influence on the soul that performs it, but was is business when it manifests and a game of placing false values on objects or services in order to self-benefit at the expense of another?
There is a famous quote from the 18th Century;
The suggestion is that there is an absolute code of behavior, a mechanistic darma, a hiway code for the human soul upon which transgressions are instantly imposed through a disturbance in the energy level which attract negative reactions within the field of both matter and the collective human consciousness ... but this probably remains idealistic, impossible, impractical wishful thinking as it does not match the constantly change nature of our environment.
When BapDada says, "if you do anything wrong someone will always see it" I believe he does not mean physically see it but, metaphorically, the imprint is immediately made onto those two fields within which we operate.
Putting aside the karma of one BK representing the entire family without full consultation, here we have the name of the BKWSU being registered by a privately owned business, purely as a business, and forWord Mark : BRAHMA KUMARIS WORLD SPIRITUAL UNIVERSITY
Goods and Services :
Provision of advertising space by electronic means and global information networks; editing and publication of advertising matter for others via the internet, specifically websites; operating an online shopping site in the field of spirituality and meditation
- " ... advertising and online shopping ... "
Is this a fair and honest representation inline with Shrimat, fair and honest representation of the contortions the current leadership is performing in order to fit into two worlds or fair and honest representation of what the organization actually is?
My feeling is that "the Laws of the Land" have their own limited karma, be they right or wrong, but they are only human made, temporary and mutable. Truth, let us call it "the Laws of the Soul" ... in theory ... are perceived of "Platonic Absolutes"; eternal right and wrongs, fixed, invisible but mechanistic. That is to say, we are led to believe there exists an ulimate code for spiritual being in this realm and if traversed, the soul cannot fail to suffer.
To make examples; the laws of the land might punish you for killing but spiritually, killing in a certain incident might be the right thing to do and rewarded (we have debated this over Bap-Dada Shrimat given to soldiers). By ethical codes of one society, lying might considered bad practise and have an immediate influence on the soul that performs it, but was is business when it manifests and a game of placing false values on objects or services in order to self-benefit at the expense of another?
There is a famous quote from the 18th Century;
The Philosphy of Truth and The Philosophy of Lie are interwined with how we understand how karma works, e.g. "how does Baba magically remove 50% sin?". It also requires a belief in the existance of a conscious, faultless and separate higher self that is able to witness and experience the transgressions of the lower self or the tool of an eternally faultless and perfect Godhead dharmic judge. The role that is invoked for BapDada as Dharamraj."Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive". Sir Walter Scott
The suggestion is that there is an absolute code of behavior, a mechanistic darma, a hiway code for the human soul upon which transgressions are instantly imposed through a disturbance in the energy level which attract negative reactions within the field of both matter and the collective human consciousness ... but this probably remains idealistic, impossible, impractical wishful thinking as it does not match the constantly change nature of our environment.
When BapDada says, "if you do anything wrong someone will always see it" I believe he does not mean physically see it but, metaphorically, the imprint is immediately made onto those two fields within which we operate.
Truth ... truth, truth, truth.
Ya know, I think there are 3 kinds of real truth.
1, the truth of the real physical world as we know it, which can be measured and understood by the sciences and some of which can be perceived fairly acuuretly by our physical senses. The better we get at science the more accurate we can interpret physical reality the more truth we have about our universe. 2. The truth of a persons experience; whatever a person feels, thinks, interprets, believes, etc, is their own little world of truth. "Truth is in the eye of the beholder" And 3. What really is. The absolute truth. What is the absolute alpha and omega of all things physical and abstract.
Our global society has made much progress in the last few hundred years in moving towards the 3rd type of truth, IMO, because of the great work of co-operation and open honesty which has arisen within communities of scientists and thinkers. I can honestly say things look bright for us in the future, so long as we don’t annihilate each other.
Plato's Cave analogy was my introduction to philosophy, so perhaps that’s why it has such a profound impact on how I see truth. Also as my personal truth has changed over the years (2nd truth) and I have tried to enlighten my peers at my moments of core changes; as I tried to make my friends see as I see they have rejected me. This is why I think aligning my personal truth with the absolute truth is a most important task, and convincing others to see as I see is a damn waste of time unless they also wish to see.
I have met very few people on my path of life who actually want to see. Ignorance and innocence is much more comfortable then wisdom and truth. There is too much pain and fear in change and in facing lies. Stubborn arrogance is also a deterrent to truth just as much as humility is scarce. Denial is a god in and of it self and is so powerful. Perhaps only people with some kind of madness actually go looking for the fire of truth. A madness or a genus. Perhaps some of both.
People don’t want the truth, they just want to feel good and secure. Let me rephrase that, people just want to BELIEVE they feel good and secure. It has been nice to meet exceptions here on this forum.
Ya know, I think there are 3 kinds of real truth.
1, the truth of the real physical world as we know it, which can be measured and understood by the sciences and some of which can be perceived fairly acuuretly by our physical senses. The better we get at science the more accurate we can interpret physical reality the more truth we have about our universe. 2. The truth of a persons experience; whatever a person feels, thinks, interprets, believes, etc, is their own little world of truth. "Truth is in the eye of the beholder" And 3. What really is. The absolute truth. What is the absolute alpha and omega of all things physical and abstract.
Our global society has made much progress in the last few hundred years in moving towards the 3rd type of truth, IMO, because of the great work of co-operation and open honesty which has arisen within communities of scientists and thinkers. I can honestly say things look bright for us in the future, so long as we don’t annihilate each other.
Plato's Cave analogy was my introduction to philosophy, so perhaps that’s why it has such a profound impact on how I see truth. Also as my personal truth has changed over the years (2nd truth) and I have tried to enlighten my peers at my moments of core changes; as I tried to make my friends see as I see they have rejected me. This is why I think aligning my personal truth with the absolute truth is a most important task, and convincing others to see as I see is a damn waste of time unless they also wish to see.
I have met very few people on my path of life who actually want to see. Ignorance and innocence is much more comfortable then wisdom and truth. There is too much pain and fear in change and in facing lies. Stubborn arrogance is also a deterrent to truth just as much as humility is scarce. Denial is a god in and of it self and is so powerful. Perhaps only people with some kind of madness actually go looking for the fire of truth. A madness or a genus. Perhaps some of both.
People don’t want the truth, they just want to feel good and secure. Let me rephrase that, people just want to BELIEVE they feel good and secure. It has been nice to meet exceptions here on this forum.
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fluffy bunny
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I entirely agree with the need to the constant need to subjugate one's own little truth to the absolute truth. And I do thinkt here are absolute states of truth.bro neo wrote:Ya know, I think there are 3 kinds of real truth.
I always thought of the 3 Degrees of Truth as being;
- 1) Subjective truth ... that which we thought was right to suit our own interests or conditioning
2) Temporal truths ... temporary truths which we adopted in order to proceed, experiment and find the final,
3) Absolute truths ... that which really is or was
I suppose within the 2 level of Temporal Truths, you might find Plato's Noble Lie of which I think the BK Path lies.
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jannisder
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Absolute agree, ex-l.
The noble lie is a religious lie that is told to the people to motivate them to do what is good and right (for an organization as BKWSU).
The lie was necessary to get the masses to behave in a way that was in their own interests (to become a deity). If they were just told to conform to a particular social template, they would not understand.
Plato believed that the masses were not very bright and would follow a self-destructive path if left to their own devices, so it was necessary to create a super class of Guardians (Brahmins/angel wannabees, as BKWSU does) who knew what was right for the people (as they made it up).
Plato could see problems with this system (as you see what is happening at this moment). The Guardians would know that system they used to create social order was a lie. However, if the Guardians themselves were convinced of the truth of the lie, the system would be totally successful.
The noble lie is a religious lie that is told to the people to motivate them to do what is good and right (for an organization as BKWSU).
The lie was necessary to get the masses to behave in a way that was in their own interests (to become a deity). If they were just told to conform to a particular social template, they would not understand.
Plato believed that the masses were not very bright and would follow a self-destructive path if left to their own devices, so it was necessary to create a super class of Guardians (Brahmins/angel wannabees, as BKWSU does) who knew what was right for the people (as they made it up).
Plato could see problems with this system (as you see what is happening at this moment). The Guardians would know that system they used to create social order was a lie. However, if the Guardians themselves were convinced of the truth of the lie, the system would be totally successful.
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fluffy bunny
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tonydot, asks the question elsewhere.
Nirwair is an intelligent man, he knows the Vishwa Ratan book he signed is not true. Ramesh Shah is another an intelligent man, he runs the money side. Only he and his can tell us what really happened in 1969. Its pretty clear that their snowball has been picking up snow as it rolls and getting bigger, bit of this religion, bit of that ... a new service idea etc. And the PBKs say they watch their videos. The Dadis that had been around since the 30s new more of the truth, certainly more of the truth of Lekhraj Kirpalani than is presented these days.
So, I still ask the same question I always do ... who, how and when did they introduce Shiva as a God to augement all the other Hindu gods that they had picked up? And why was he not "present" in the knowledge between 1932 and 1949/50? What was going on then?
Nirwair is an intelligent man, he knows the Vishwa Ratan book he signed is not true. Ramesh Shah is another an intelligent man, he runs the money side. Only he and his can tell us what really happened in 1969. Its pretty clear that their snowball has been picking up snow as it rolls and getting bigger, bit of this religion, bit of that ... a new service idea etc. And the PBKs say they watch their videos. The Dadis that had been around since the 30s new more of the truth, certainly more of the truth of Lekhraj Kirpalani than is presented these days.
So, I still ask the same question I always do ... who, how and when did they introduce Shiva as a God to augement all the other Hindu gods that they had picked up? And why was he not "present" in the knowledge between 1932 and 1949/50? What was going on then?
The thing is, when Seniors give lectures or tell stories of their childhood, it is as if, majority of students think and feel they are "embodiments of truth". They have really learned "The Arts".ex-l wrote:Nirwair is an intelligent man, he knows the Vishwa Ratan book he signed is not true. Ramesh Shah is another an intelligent man, he runs the money side. Only he and his can tell us what really happened in 1969. Its pretty clear that their snowball has been picking up snow as it rolls and getting bigger, bit of this religion, bit of that ... a new service idea etc. And the PBKs say they watch their videos. The Dadis that had been around since the 30s new more of the truth, certainly more of the truth of Lekhraj Kirpalani than is presented these days.
So, I still ask the same question I always do ... who, how and when did they introduce Shiva as a God to augement all the other Hindu gods that they had picked up? And why was he not "present" in the knowledge between 1932 and 1949/50? What was going on then?
If it was absolute god and absolute truth, there would be no need to attempt to silence any criticism ... When I was a bk, we would just try and have love (which often even felt like pity) toward anyone who had a pop at us ... but we had such faith it did not bother us ... I've even walked down a busy high street with a billboard advertising a public event ... intoxicated rather than annoyed by anyone's jibes.
I always find reading ex-l's posts refinely educated (check out the 3 Degrees link, hot!) and sometimes humbling. jannisder's posts just make me feel ... good. But this morning on my way to work, as I read their posts after mine in this topic an anger started to come over me (not towards them, but towards a possible injustice they have opened my eyes to). My blood got hot, and I felt a hard intellectual tension arise in my mind.
There’s no doubt in my mind how self absorbed and selfish I am. I have been through years of recovery breaking through layers of denial and understanding my past ways of self destruction. Now I still am extremely self absorbed, very, very selfishly seeking spiritual truth, and a way to be happy in this world, understand justice, love and truth. I respect others to their own demise as long as my boundaries are not violated and treat others as just and civil as I can.
My leaving the BKs was a complete act of selfishness. I wanted a higher, nobler, truer, truth. When I left, my heart and head both had a sort of neutral view towards the BKWSU, I just thought maybe they are right and I am wrong but I have to know if there could be a higher calling for me. I then wandered into the world searching, searching ... stopping very seldom to look back.
But this morning as I read, and I saw the different parts of the picture we have painted thus far in this topic I started to see a new view of the spiritual institution I left behind some years ago. A very disturbing picture. I thought, perhaps, could it be, that the Seniors actually lied to us. I mean deliberately lied to us. To me! And I am not talking about the little things, I mean the big things. I mean everything!
I was the fool, aw struck by the light, searching for answers, because I believed my truth was flawed and lacking before the BKs. My little world of truth went through Armageddon and I desperately, madly sought the truth of what was. I gave my soul to my search.
The BKs with their pretty little museum and cheap easy to read books then reveal that we (the BKs) are The Truth, and we are The Way, and you have come home and we love you. The world outside is hell and you know it 'child' so come and look at the little white dot on the wall and repeat after me. "I am a BK, I love only BapDada, I am a completely humbled servant who needs Bap-Dada in order to live or even breathe, without Bap-Dada I am worse then dead ...".
A lie. A bloody lie. They weren't a bunch of bhaghats who were the great Deities of old. BB did not get possessed that night and have glowing red eyes. And the Absolute God of all time and space did not talk to them then, or now. It's all just a lie!
I don't blame them. BB was a successful businessman, he knew how to do business, advertising and management skills were probably second nature to him, so when it was time for him to retire and become a guru, as they do over there at that age, he didn’t just want a following, he wanted an empire.
And the SS, the women of India, had terrible protection from the law and had very minimal rights in those days. In their shoes, I am sure I would’ve done the same thing. It was probably like winning the lottery to get accepted into the lap of BB and surrender to him. But it wasn't the truth. It wasn't even a real spirituality. It was the formation of a new society and social order. An order that years latter expanded over seas to capture naïve little double foreigners to iron clothes, vacuum centers, and send our hard earned money to the Dadis all in the name of Truth.
To give up our best years where we could've gotten formal educations, good jobs and secured important social relationships just because the end of the world could be in 2 hours so we're better off having Yoga, doing service and cooking Bhog to offer to the CEO of the SS's retirement home.
Rghhh ...
OK I have not come to any conclusions, all the above statements are just speculative, and I am sure these thoughts have gone through many more heads then just mine, as this forum is filled with displeasure and suspicion towards the BKs. But if this is what is really going on ...
There is a huge difference between my old view that the SS really believed they were speaking the truth and were just perhaps wrong and this new potential view that the SS has lied all along intentionally just to get their society thriving and their plates stack with delicacies.
There’s no doubt in my mind how self absorbed and selfish I am. I have been through years of recovery breaking through layers of denial and understanding my past ways of self destruction. Now I still am extremely self absorbed, very, very selfishly seeking spiritual truth, and a way to be happy in this world, understand justice, love and truth. I respect others to their own demise as long as my boundaries are not violated and treat others as just and civil as I can.
My leaving the BKs was a complete act of selfishness. I wanted a higher, nobler, truer, truth. When I left, my heart and head both had a sort of neutral view towards the BKWSU, I just thought maybe they are right and I am wrong but I have to know if there could be a higher calling for me. I then wandered into the world searching, searching ... stopping very seldom to look back.
But this morning as I read, and I saw the different parts of the picture we have painted thus far in this topic I started to see a new view of the spiritual institution I left behind some years ago. A very disturbing picture. I thought, perhaps, could it be, that the Seniors actually lied to us. I mean deliberately lied to us. To me! And I am not talking about the little things, I mean the big things. I mean everything!
I was the fool, aw struck by the light, searching for answers, because I believed my truth was flawed and lacking before the BKs. My little world of truth went through Armageddon and I desperately, madly sought the truth of what was. I gave my soul to my search.
The BKs with their pretty little museum and cheap easy to read books then reveal that we (the BKs) are The Truth, and we are The Way, and you have come home and we love you. The world outside is hell and you know it 'child' so come and look at the little white dot on the wall and repeat after me. "I am a BK, I love only BapDada, I am a completely humbled servant who needs Bap-Dada in order to live or even breathe, without Bap-Dada I am worse then dead ...".
A lie. A bloody lie. They weren't a bunch of bhaghats who were the great Deities of old. BB did not get possessed that night and have glowing red eyes. And the Absolute God of all time and space did not talk to them then, or now. It's all just a lie!
I don't blame them. BB was a successful businessman, he knew how to do business, advertising and management skills were probably second nature to him, so when it was time for him to retire and become a guru, as they do over there at that age, he didn’t just want a following, he wanted an empire.
And the SS, the women of India, had terrible protection from the law and had very minimal rights in those days. In their shoes, I am sure I would’ve done the same thing. It was probably like winning the lottery to get accepted into the lap of BB and surrender to him. But it wasn't the truth. It wasn't even a real spirituality. It was the formation of a new society and social order. An order that years latter expanded over seas to capture naïve little double foreigners to iron clothes, vacuum centers, and send our hard earned money to the Dadis all in the name of Truth.
To give up our best years where we could've gotten formal educations, good jobs and secured important social relationships just because the end of the world could be in 2 hours so we're better off having Yoga, doing service and cooking Bhog to offer to the CEO of the SS's retirement home.
Rghhh ...
OK I have not come to any conclusions, all the above statements are just speculative, and I am sure these thoughts have gone through many more heads then just mine, as this forum is filled with displeasure and suspicion towards the BKs. But if this is what is really going on ...
There is a huge difference between my old view that the SS really believed they were speaking the truth and were just perhaps wrong and this new potential view that the SS has lied all along intentionally just to get their society thriving and their plates stack with delicacies.
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fluffy bunny
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Ahem ... in my defence, y'r Honor, the song is perfectly suitable for a Pukka BK to use for traffic control! The video ... a vision of Golden Aged song birds to my pure eyes. They should play it as Bapadada leaves the stage and it would have the audience in tears ... (I bet they wont pay the royalties though!).bro neo wrote:I always find reading ex-l’s posts refinely educated (check out the 3 Degrees link, hot!) and sometimes humbling.
I believe so. Not only lied to us but over decades. "The Lie" has become so well polished and refined that it is perfect to digest and passes through their conscience with ease, on the basis that it ultimately brings "benefit". The second and consequent generations have they adopted it verbatim, in trust, as their truth.I thought, perhaps, could it be, that the Seniors actually lied to us. I mean deliberately lied to us. To me!
All part of that "willing suspension of doubt" which were encouraged to do.
Now, of course, little bothers them. They are at the top of the mountain, have the freeholds, trust funds and income. Even if they finally confess up ... so what? All they do is release an official statement, they remain in their positions and are Scot Free. Their system leaves them unquestionable and unaccountable.
Personally, where I think they have manipulated matters from the original form is in the infantalisation, dependency and undying loyalty of 'their' followers to 'them', as evidenced how they act towards confident and independent free thinkers? They rule, we conform. We do not ... we are ejected out of their kingdom which is sustained by their "truth" [tm]. My unresolved issues are;
- a) only God knows what or why BapDada has anything to do with it.
b) did they sit down in private and consciously working out an "official line" or has it just sort of evolved gradually in the hands of the like of old timers like Ramesh and Janki who have their own stories?
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abrahma kumar
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Couldn't agree with you both more. Classic Posts both of them.
If you care to why not have a read of some lunacy posted on the forum entitled: Are the laity really Bhai & Bhen Kirpalani's by proxy? I include a little snippet here without, I hope, clouding the thread. Thanks again ... do not miss the link at the end :lol: Its for kids from 1 to 92.
abek
If you care to why not have a read of some lunacy posted on the forum entitled: Are the laity really Bhai & Bhen Kirpalani's by proxy? I include a little snippet here without, I hope, clouding the thread. Thanks again ... do not miss the link at the end :lol: Its for kids from 1 to 92.
abrahma Kumar wrote:When sanity seems long departed what to do ... ?
... what if we learn that the combined letters BK are in fact a sort of "The Family" heirloom that we non-members and non-family have been allowed to 'use - and to 'imagine ourselves as' - only under the 'grace & favour' of The Family? Now, it sure looks as if someone wants to call time on that free ride we were taking! Were we deluded in thinking that the BK useage 'allowance' would exist for the entire Confluence Age? ... When did "Brahma" as G-O-D get dropped in favour of Shiva as G-O-D? What if, for all of these years we have quite innocently "given-up" our identities in order to prop up the egos of religious meglomaniacs and/or being(s) from a realm beyond who want themselves - and family name and initials - to go down in history as the TRUE missionaries of G-O-D? Have we all become Bhai & Bhen Kirplani's by proxy? ...
regardsex-l wrote:Personally, where I think they have manipulated matters from the original form is in the infantalisation, dependency and undying loyalty of 'their' followers to 'them', as evidenced how they act towards confident and independent free thinkers? They rule, we conform. We do not ... we are ejected out of their kingdom which is sustained by their "truth" [tm]. My unresolved issues are;
a) only God knows what or why BapDada has anything to do with it.
b) did they sit down in private and consciously working out an "official line" or has it just sort of evolved gradually in the hands of the like of old timers like Ramesh and Janki who have their own stories?
abek
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