The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of

[john]

How do you know the sakars are from 1951? that is different to what I ws told, I was told that the last 5 years were recorded!

I was under the impression that Sakar Murlis started from that period and were recorded so as to be sent out to BKs doing service in other centres. If they weren't recorded then how did BKs not in Madhuban get them?

I have since been informed that only the last 5 years are available.

[mr green]

You're right I think about the tapes ... mmmmmmmmm.

[bansy]

The 5 years of Murlis. So much secrecy. A bit like the Holy Grail :shock:.

[john]

PBKs are well informed on these matters. Of course senior BKs are as well, but they do not come here to inform us of such things ... In fact, it was Sivasena that pointed out only the last 5 years are available as he has the whole collection.

Virendra Dev Dixit was around from 1969 and I would assume be a mind of information as to what went on around and before this time.

[bansy]

You have raised an important issue and this is the issue which leads many a BKs to become PBKs because although the reading of Sakar Murlis in the BK center would make sense only if it is read in the past sense, but all the BK teachers read the Sakar Murlis in the present tense and whenever there is any reference to God Shiv or Prajapita Brahma being present in this world, they point out either to the picture of the incorporeal Shiv or the picture of Brahma Baba.

Does that mean really that the CURRENT daily Sakar Murlis, which have been repeatedly revised and rotated are of daily irrelevance, or rather less irrelevance since it is all way in the past, after all the soul needs new food, not stale food.

In addition, when listening to the daily Sakar Murli, BKs are told to imagine Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj) sitting and reading it and hence as if he was speaking, and not the Dadi or senior doing it. In which case how does the BK Murli team know what to revise ... unless the soul of Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj) is instructing them daily (via whom)?

[bansy]

1. 1951. If you search for 1951 in this forum, it will talk about the 5 years worth Murlis.

2. I am surprised no BK has so far come forward to say how they read Murlis, in present or past tense. That is maybe because ...===>

3. This was taken from the PBK thread points fro churning thread, regarding destruction :

I think the part of Destruction is fixed in the drama. Shiv Baba does not directly involve in it. Simply because he is non violent. Baba is present in the corporeal form - this was said in the Sakar Murli - the time when Brahma Baba was alive in this world.

BK's are talking about the present time. Not the time before 1969. We will get transfered to the Golden Age. Laughing May be it is too easy to say! Shiv Baba will take all the souls because he is the bridegroom - not Brahma. Brahma is his child. Queen bee is Shiv Baba.

====> ... if BKs are talking about the present, not the time before 1969, well what are the daily morning Sakar Murli sessions for ? Who is speaking daily, presently ? To emphasise my previous post, is Father Shiva via BB (Lekhraj Kirpalani) speaking these daily Sakar Murlis, or is it Father Shiva speaking via someone else in the Murli team? We all know the Murli teams prepare the documents well in advance for global distribution.

PBKs, according to the Advanced Knowledge, am I correct to say that these daily morning Sakar Murlis are therefore "scriptures" themselves ?

[john]

Does that mean really that the CURRENT daily Sakar Murlis, which have been repeatedly revised and rotated are of daily irrelevance, or rather less irrelevance since it is all way in the past, after all the soul needs new food, not stale food.

I don't think 18 years of Shiva giving daily lectures can now be passed off as irrelevant, but what is the relevance?

For me Sakar Murlis are the Basic introductory lectures in the grand scheme of things. Yet without having a firm grasp of the basics as a foundation, the more advance knowledge may not sit right. Indeed if the PBK knowledge is to be taken as the advance knowledge or next step in the evolving world of the Yagya, then I feel some PBKs are missing out on the building blocks which comes with the BK education. If that is the case I think it may be difficult for them to see the whole picture and maybe get a bit stressed or defensive when things are pointed out beyond what they understand.

So, I say Sakar Murlis are essential and always will be, but are not the be all and end all and I think you will find in them many keys to unlock more advanced knowledge.

[mr green]

When I used to read the Murli, the way I did it was to try not to think of anything at all, to let the mind go blank and just feel myself to be an instrument.

[bansy]

I agree the general importance of the Sakar Murlis, John, hence I highlighted the word CURRENT daily Sakar Murlis (ones used by BK's). I mean how watered down and filtered and cut and pasted are they nowadays. Yes there is still a lot of content in them today to get started with.

If exactly the same Murlis that were spoken in 1965 were given in 1985 and in 2005 and tomorrow morning, then there is no need for any misunderstanding for any students, BK PBK or otherwise. The same knowledge applies for all (Basic Knowledge and Advance Knowledge are just terms used by PBKs with 1976 as the pivoting point betwen the two), and I would feel Father Shiva makes no indifferences.

At the end of the day, it simply comes down to why do (BK) Sakar Murlis get revised ? The Sunday Avyakt Murlis have their original dates on the top corner, but not the daily Sakar Murlis.

[mr green]

At the end of the day, it simply comes down to why do (BK) Sakar Murlis get revised ? The Sunday Avyakt Murlis have their original dates on the top corner, but not the daily Sakar Murlis.

They used to have the dates on them.

[john]

I agree the general importance of the Sakar Murlis, John, hence I highlighted the word CURRENT daily Sakar Murlis (ones used by BK's). I mean how watered down and filtered and cut and pasted are they nowadays. Yes, there is still a lot of content in them today to get started with.

Yes, you are right. This concerns me a great deal!

they used to have the dates on them

Maybe once they realised others were cross referencing them they stopped putting the dates on.

[john]

I am starting to get the impression from BKs who have posted on this forum that Sakar Murlis (Murlis written whilst Brahma Baba was still in the corporeal world) are not that important in the BKworld anymore. They generally don't seem to care whether they are rewritten, bits taken out, sentences altered to give different meanings. Is this a fair assessment? What is the official line on Sakar Murlis from the BKSWU?

Is it possible to get a reply from a Senior Sister as to why the BKSWU feels it necessary to alter Murlis?

[sparkal]

Others may benefit from this anyway.

I don't get much time on the net, is there anywhere here that I can catch up on this seasons Murli's so far (2006)?

Cheers.

[mitra]

The Sakar Murli was quoted here is from before 1969. But at present, Prajapita Brahma is in the Subtle Region. [He left his body in 1969].

While reading the Sakar Murli, we have to tune our mind to the period before 1969.

IBHS
MITRA :)

[bansy]

While reading the Sakar Murli, we have to tune our mind to the period before 1969.

This is why this issue is being discussed in the thread "Murlis : In the Present tense or in the Past tense format " See : http://brahmakumaris.info/bb/viewtopic.php?t=299.

What do the CURRENT daily Murlis represent, the past words of Braham Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) or the current words of ShivBaba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) ? In which case, why study something of the past, would that not just be the same as scriptures.