Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

[mbbhat]

Initially there was clarification of the Gita.

Till 1947?

When did Piyu ki Vani start, as per PBKs?

[sita]

There is also this part of writing by Brahma Baba. But I don't know when Piyu ki Vani started.

About the adoption matter. You have said that in the Murli it is said that ShivBaba does not adopt, because he enters. Did I get it right? But it is said about the Supreme Father entering, that that is not adoption. But for Brahma Baba it is said that he is adopted. How do you explain it?

[mbbhat]

baba says- Chariot/Brahma is 1)adopted, but also 2)not adopted.

1) ShivBaba has adopted him by entering into him [as His 'vanni' or Wife, (not Child) - in the FIRST instance; THEN he adopts him as His Child through OWN mouth of BB, (as a 'alokik' Mother). So Brahma Baba is FIRST His WIFE - on ENTERING; and then His Child, on Shiv speaking through his mouth and B Baba listening].
2) But, not adopted - in lowkik way (where there would be two CORPOREAL personalities- one adopting the other). But, here, both the souls are in one BODY, hence NOT CONSIDERED as actual ADOPTION.

1a) Brahma is also Mukh-Vanshavli, because he gets birth (understands himself in practical) only after listening to Knowledge that came through his OWN mouth.

2a) Brahma/Chariot is STRICTLY not mouth-born (because he got birth by entrance in his OWN body, and NOT through the body of any other embodied soul). But all the rest get birth through the knowledge that came from his mouth, hence Mukh-Vanshavali.

For children, it is just one process (listening to mouth of other personality). Hence no confusion there.

But, for the Chariot, there are different aspects- Shiv entering into him (as His Wife, hence BB then becomes an 'alokik' Mother of the other mouth-born Children), and then listening to the words spoken by Shiv through his own mouth (through which he becomes the FIRST-BORN Child of ShivBaba).

Actually both ShivBaba and Brahma adopt us.

See the Murli point No. 10 in the same topic, which gives full idea. It says- both the fathers adopt us. ShivBaba adopts we souls, Brahma Baba adopts us as new human creation. I am reproducing-

SM 12-1-83(1):- Sharir nirvaah arth karm bhi karnaa hai. YAH Dada (DLR - 'd', as in 'they') BHI BUJURG HAI. ShivBaba KO BOODHAA VAH BUJURG NAHIN KAHENGE. VAH HAI HEE NIRAAKAAR. YAH BHI TUM JAANTE HO TUM AATMAAVON KO NIRAAKAAR BAAP (ShivBaba or Shiv Bap) NE ADOPT KIYAA HAI AUR PHIR Sakar MAY HAI YAH BRAHMA (now 'akari' Father after 1969). AHAM ATMA KAHTE HAIN HUMNEY BAAP (ShivBaba or Shiv Bap) KO APNAA BANAAYAA HAI. PHIR NEECHE AAVO TOH KAHENGE HUM BHAAYI BAHANON NE BRAHMA (DLR, as Father ALSO) KO APNAA BANAAYAA HAI. ShivBaba kahte hain tum BHI Brahma Baba dwaaraa humaarey vamshaavali baney ho. Brahma bhi kahte hain ki tum humaarey bachche baney ho. TUM BRAAHMANON KI BUDDHI MAY SHWAASON SHWAAS YAHI CHALEGAA KI YAH (BB, DLR) HUMAARAA BAAP HAI, YAH HUMAARAA 'Dada' (ShivBaba or Shiv 'Dada' - 'd', as in 'day') HAI. Baap (lokik father) se jaasti Dade (lokik grand-Father) ko Yaad karte hain. Vah manushy toh Baap se jhagdaa aadhi karkey bhi Dade ki property lete hain. TUMKO BHI KOSHISH KAR BAAP (Brahma Baba, Brahma Bap, DLR) SE BHI JAASTI DADE (ShivBaba or Shiv 'Dada' - 'd', as in 'day') SE LENAA HAI. Baba jab poochte hain toh sabhi kahte hain hum Narayan ko varenge. KOYI2 NAYE AATE HAIN, PAVITR NAHIN RAH SAKTEY TOH VAH HAATH NAHIN UTHAA SAKTEY. KAH DETE Maya BADI PRABAL HAI. -14-, 15 [Maatpita, ShivBaba, adoption, BHI, WOT, Hoshiyaar, Milan]

= SM 12-1-83(1):- We have to also perform actions for the sustenance of the body. THIS Dada (DLR - 'd', as in 'they') is also elderly. ShivBaba (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, God) would NOT be called OLD or ELDERLY (Whereas, Ravan or Maya, through the mukrar-rath of Ravan, TRICKS the BLIND PBKs into believing that the term 'ShivBaba' ONLY represents 'Shiv within Virendra Dev Dixit' OR 'Shiv within a corporeal body', while Shiv 'solely as a soul' is only called as 'Shiv'). HE (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, God) IS ALWAYS INCORPOREAL (Whereas, Ravan or Maya, through the mukrar-rath of Ravan, TRICKS the BLIND PBKs into believing that Virendra Dev Dixit always remains in an 'incorporeal stage' - in other words, they have made him superior even to Shiv - since Shiv does all the talking, while he is in a complete stage, without hearing/understanding the knowledge and without making any effort himself - thus performing the 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap). You also know that the INCORPOREAL Father (ShivBaba or Shiv Bap) HAS ADOPTED YOU SOULS, and then this Brahma (now 'akari' Father after 1969) is in CORPOREAL (through whose mouth the children are adopted, hence he becomes the 'alokik' Mother as well as the 'alokik' Father, while Shiv is the 'parlokik' Mother as well as the 'parlokik' Father). "We, the SOULS say, WE have made the (incorporeal) Father (ShivBaba or Shiv Bap) as OURS. And, then here below (in the corporeal bodies), we will say, we BROTHERS and SISTERS (as embodied human beings) HAVE MADE BRAHMA (DLR, as Father ALSO) AS OURS ('alokik' Mother, AS WELL AS 'alokik' Father). ShivBaba says, you too have become OUR PROGENY through Brahma Baba (NOTE that Brahma Baba is mentioned, not just Brahma or Brahma Mama, which clearly means Brahma is ALSO referred to as 'alokik' Father). Brahma also says, you have become our children. In every breath of you Brahmins, your intellect will FEEL this is our ('alokik') 'BABA' or Father (BB, DLR), this is our 'Dada' or Grand-Father (ShivBaba or Shiv 'Dada' - 'd', as in 'day'). They ('lokik' people) remember 'Dade' or grand-Father ('lokik' grand-Father) more than 'Baap' or father ('lokik' father). Those humans would even FIGHT, ETC., with the father and take the property of the grand-Father (just as the PBKs 'FIGHT' with BB and BKs by insinuating that BB is STILL a baby-buddhi, HK, etc., to take the property of ShivBaba - but ALL they get is the 'property' of Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', in Confluence Age).
You too have to make effort to take MORE from 'DADE' or Grand-Father (ShivBaba or Shiv 'Dada' - 'd', as in 'day') than 'BAAP' or Father (Brahma Baba, Brahma Bap, DLR). When Baba asks then everyone says that we will (become worthy to) marry Narayan. Some new ones come, who cannot remain pure, so they cannot raise their hands. They say that Maya is very powerful. =

Also- see - post No. 23- where Baba says- ShivBaba is creator of heaven(purifier), but Brahma is creator of humanity(first and inevitable instrument). There are two creators/processes, so two types of adoptions. But, sometimes Baba highlights just one, at that time Baba will merge the other one.

So, Chariot is a must for Shiv from the very beginning, hence Brahma/Chariot becomes anaadi.

... But it is said about the Supreme Father entering, that that is not adoption. But for Brahma Baba it is said that he is adopted. How do you explain it?

As clearly explained above, the ACT of Supreme Father Supreme Soul, God or ShivBaba just ENTERING into corporeal body of Brahma Baba cannot be STRICTLY considered to be adoption of the Child Brahma as the FIRST BORN, in the very first instance, but is STRICTLY the actual adoption of His 'vanni' or Wife, to be the 'alokik' Mother or Big Mother('badi Ma') for the ensuing mouth-born Children; WHILE the almost SIMULTANEOUS ACT of speaking out the Knowledge and giving the clear introduction and understanding of the Supreme Spiritual Relationships through the mouth of Brahma Baba HIMSELF, constitutes the actual ACT of adoption of the FIRST BORN Child Brahma, through the lotus mouth of Brahma Baba or Prajapita Brahma HIMSELF, and NONE OTHER!!!

[sita]

One more point on the difference between Prajapita and Brahma.

प्रजपिता ब्रह्मा को भी पिता कह्ते है। तो माता कौन. यह ब्रह्मा माता बन जाती है।(mu. 19.12.2001)

Prajapita Brahma will also be called Father. Then who is the mother. This Brahma becomes mother. (mu.19.12.2001)

and another interesting point.

शरीर छूटेगा तब जब बाप का रथ आकर लेंगे। (mu. 10.05.1968)

The body will be left when (he) will come and take the Chariot of the Father. (mu. 10.05.1968)

What does it mean?

[mbbhat]

One more point on the difference between Prajapita and Brahma.

प्रजपिता ब्रह्मा को भी पिता कह्ते है। तो माता कौन. यह ब्रह्मा माता बन जाती है।(mu. 19.12.2001)

Prajapita Brahma will also be called Father. Then who is the mother. This Brahma becomes mother. (mu.19.12.2001)

Baba does not speak grammatically, as he is bholanath and is also speaking to illiterate kanyas and maatas. see the Murli point- "This ShivBaba" - mu point No. 2)- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 654#p12654 . Does it means ShivBaba is someone other than the speaker?

The meaning of the above Murli point is- "Prajapita Brahma will also be called Father. Then who is the mother. This Brahma becomes mother".

SM 13-11-83(1):- Hanumaan koyi ek nahin thaa. Sab Hanumaan mahaaveron ki hi maalaa hai. Rudraksh mala hoti hai na. Rudr Bhagavaan ki BHI jo maalaa hai, unkaa naam hi hai rudr mala. Rudraksh ek beej hotaa hai, vah bahut keemthi hotaa hai. rudraaksh may bhi koyi real, koyi artificial hoti hai. [mala, bhi]

Does it mean there is another rudrmala?

SM 3-11-76(3):- Abhi hai Sangamyug. Isko 100 varsh denaa chaahiye. Saari kichchad_patti saaf ho jaaye. Phir kahenge nayi duniyaa. Usmey BHI sab kuch nayaa hogaa -4- [Sangamyug, BHI]

Does it mean- There is another world where everything would be new? [Baba is stressing, that is all]. That is why baba says- I am Dilaaraam, not DeemagRam. But, Mr Dixit is Deemag_Ram.

शरीर छूटेगा तब जब बाप का रथ आकर लेंगे। (mu. 10.05.1968)

The body will be left when (he) will come and take the Chariot of the Father. (mu. 10.05.1968)
What does it mean?

Yet to check. There is need to know adjacent sentences.

[sita]

The meaning of the above Murli point is- "Prajapita Brahma will also be called Father. Then who is the mother. This Brahma becomes mother".

I did not get it.

Yet to check. There is need to know adjacent sentences.

You can read this Murli on the PBKs.info. This point is just the last one.

[mbbhat]

Sorry, I forgot to edit it. I believe the meaning is-

Prajapita Brahma is also called as (just) Father(in lowkik). Then who is the mother. This Brahma becomes mother (too). (mu.19.12.2001)

Yes, you have point there. But, I have added something in bracket, on the basis of several other Murli points.

1)Another example- SM 1-3-89(1):- Yahaan jo kuch tum dekhte ho hospital, jail, judge aadi vahaan kuch bhi nahin honge. VAH DUNIYAA HEE DOOSRI HOGI. DUNIYAA TO YAHI HAI. Parantu nayi aur purani may fark to zaroor hoga na. Unko kaha jata hai swarg. Vahi duniya phir narak banti hai. -83

=.... THAT WORLD ITSELF WILL BE DIFFERENT. THE WORLD WILL BE THIS ONLY........

Are there two worlds or one? In the first sentence, baba says- as if the heaven is something different world. Then says- it will be here only. Similarly, Baba may mean- "Lowkik People believe Prajapita is Father. But, then who is mother? This one becomes mother (too)".

2)) - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2009&p=50364&hilit= ... LAA#p50364 . Whatever Murli points you may show, can you go against this?

3)SM 8-3-89(2):- KOYI BHI ATMA AATI TO GARBH MAY HEE HAI. Chota bachcha so badaa huva. ShivBaba to chota badaa nahin hota. Na vah garbh se janm letaa hai. Buddh ki atma ne pravesh kiya. Buddh dharm pahle to hota nahin. ZAROOR YAHAAN KE KOYI MANUSHY MAY PRAVESH KARENGE. Phir garbh may to zaroor jaayenge. Buddh dharm ek ne hi sthaapan kiyaa phir unkey peeche aura aate gaye. Phir vruddhi hoti gayi. Jab laakhon ho jaate hain to phir Rajayi chalti hai. Bouddhiyon ka bhi raajy thaa. -91-

= Any soul that comes goes into womb only. ... [Is that true? But, then baba says in next sentences. That is why study through isolated Murli points is dangerous.

You can read this Murli on the PBKs.info. This point is just the last one.

Yes, I read the Murli point, but did not get the meaning. Seems there could be some typing error either by BKs or PBKs. Else, we should try to get audio file.

[sita]

One point about the ling as symbol of the corporeal form.

"Abhi tum bachon ko baap baith padhaate hai. Unko kaha jata hai kalyankari. Baap apna parichay baith dete he. Meri tum pooja karte the na ling ki. Unko Paramatma kehte the. Param atma so Parmatma ho jaata. Parantu yah nahi jaante ki yah kya karte hai. Bas sirf keh denge sarvavyapi hai. Naam roop se nyaara hai. Naam roop se nyaara phir us par doodh aadi chadaana shobhta nahi hai. Aakaar hai tab toh us par charaate hai na. Unko nirakaar to keh nahi sakte". mu. 26.6.68


"Now the Father sits and teaches you children. He is called the benefactor. The Father sits and gives his own introduction. You did my worship of the ling, is it not? He is called Paramatma. Parama atma becomes Paramatma. But they don't know what this one does. They will say he is omnipresent, that's all. He is above name and form. If he is above name and form then pouring milk on him does not fit. He is akaar, that is why they pour on. He cannot be called nirakar." mu. 26.6.68

[mbbhat]

One point about the ling as symbol of the corporeal form. He cannot be called nirakar." mu. 26.6.68

When the devotees of the outer world utter word- 'niraakaar', they believe/understand that God is FORMLESS - so, IN THIS PARTICULAR CONTEXT, ShivBaba is explaining that He cannot be called 'nirakar' in the sense of being FORMLESS. But God has a form, which is just a DOT or POINT - so, IN THIS PARTICULAR CONTEXT, ShivBaba is explaining that He DOES have an 'akar' or FORM, which is JUST a DOT or POINT. Here Baba is meaning aakaar(form), FOR God as a POINT, and NOT for God as being within EITHER a corporeal or subtle VEHICLE or body. Baba is saying- I am not formless (which the devotees refer to as 'nirakar'), but have a fixed form of a POINT (which is referred to as 'akar') - the meaning here is that He has SOME FORM, that of a POINT; and according to Knowledge, since He does NOT have either a GROSS or SUBTLE form, hence He is ACTUALLY considered to be 'nirakar' - ONE without a 'sakari' corporeal form like other embodied human beings, and even without an 'akari' subtle form like the farishtas or angels - in the CORRECT CONTEXT!

SM 17-6-72(2):- Baap aaye sabhi ko padhaate hain. VAH HAI NIRAAKAAR STAR, LING ROOP MAY RAKHAA HAI SAMJHAANE LIYE. Bindi likney se koyi samajh na sake. Tum samjhaa sakte ho atma ek star hai, Baap bhi star hai. -195-

So- the context is to be understood. take all the Murli points said about ling and then churn, instead of taking just Murli points in ISOLATION, and allowing yourself to be TREACHEROUSLY TRICKED into MIS-INTERPRETATIONS and MIS-APPROPRIATIONS, DELUSIVELY BELIEVING that such MIS-INTERPRETATIONS and MIS-APPROPRIATIONS constitute the so-called advanced knowledge having UNLIMITED meanings, (although this aspect ALSO has a definite significance within the frame-work of Drama, which is a DIFFERENT matter altogether - already being highlighted in other topics on this forum).

See few more such examples - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... yagy#p4111 .

[sita]

In the quote you have provided it is said that he is kept in the ling, not as the ling. He is one part of the ling, the diamond that is kept in the ling is the memorial of the point of light.

[sita]

ShivBaba has a Father!

"Baap ne pucha, ShivBaba ko bap he? Kehte hai, ha. Achcha ShivBaba ko teacher hai? Guru hai? Nahi. Sirf Maa bap milte hai. Yah guhya hisaab hai." mu. 12.10.2002

"The Father asked, does ShivBaba has a Father. It is said, yes. Alright, does ShivBaba have a teacher? Does he have a guru? No. It is a deep account." mu. 12.10.2002

Names of the Supreme Soul change as he changes bodies, from Brahma to Shankar, then Vishnu.

"Unki atma ka hi naam Shiv hai. Vah, kab badalta nahi. Sharir badalte hai toh naam bhi badal jaate. Jaise Brahma se Shankar, phir Vishnu” mu. 24.1.75

"The name of his soul is Shiv, it never changes. When the body changes, the name also changes. Like from Brahma - Shankar,then Vishnu." mu. 24.1.75

Regarding the argument that Shankar and Vishnu are pure deities in the Subtle Region, so Shiv does not enter them, I think we should make the difference between one who is in corporeal and in the Subtle Region. The Subtle Region has been created by ShivBaba in the Confluence Age through the knowledge that he gives. The Subtle Region is not visible through the physical eyes. Through the third eye of knowledge we can see the complete form of the souls in the Subtle Region. Apart from this future complete form of the souls there is the present corporeal, impure form of these same souls, that is visible though the physical eyes.

Advance Party in physical bodies.

A.V. 25.1.80
"Advance Party to Sakar sharir parivartan kar seva kar rahi hai. Lekin koi koi ka part ant tak sakari aur akari roop dwara abhi chalta hai."

A.V.25.1.80
"Advance Party having is doing service having changed the body. But the part of some is now going in corporeal and akar form till the end."

BVS are visible through these eyes.

mu 12.8.83
"B, V, Sh ko bhi Yaad karte hain, vah toh, en ankhoon se dekhne main aate hain."

"BVS are also remembered, they are visible through these eyes."

Rama is the name of Prajapita,

mu. 6.2.76
"Prajapita Brahma jisko Ram kaha jata hai unko great great grandfather kaha jata hai.“

"Prajapita Brahma who is called Ram , he is called him great great grandfather."


There is more than one Brahma.

mu. 19.9.2005
"Satyug treta ko kaha jaata hai – Brahma ka din. Ek Brahma toh nahi hoga."

"Satyug and Treta are called the day of Brahma. There will not be one Brahma."

[mbbhat]

ShivBaba has a Father!
"Baap ne pucha, ShivBaba ko bap he? Kehte hai, ha. Achcha ShivBaba ko teacher hai? Guru hai? Nahi. Sirf Maa bap milte hai. Yah guhya hisaab hai." mu. 12.10.2002
"The Father asked, does ShivBaba has a Father. It is said, yes. Alright, does ShivBaba have a teacher? Does he have a guru? No. It is a deep account." mu. 12.10.2002

This is already discussed in the forum. _ See viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1819&p=25203&hilit=child#p25203

But, I am little bit surprised now- whether AIVV has started misusing even this Murli point by IMPLYING ShivBaba to be Mr. Dixit himself. Every BK is Father of ShivBaba in the context that (s)he donates/serves to the Yagya of ShivBaba. See- the Murli point clearly says- ShivBaba has neither Teacher, nor Guru. Does not Mr Dixit have Guru or Teacher? So- if you think yourself fully, even if you do not understand the Murli point properly, you will not misuse it or will not get misguided by Mr Dixit SO READILY & and SO EASILY. Sorry to say this. Because it is clearly seen how easily PBKs are getting fooled by Mr Dixit, SINCE THEY DO NOT USE THEIR OWN INTELLECT INTELLIGENTLY FOR THEMSELVES, BUT BLINDLY ACCEPT WHATEVER IS SUGGESTED INDISCRIMINATELY by their bodily guru.

... "Prajapita Brahma who is called Ram, he is called great great grandfather."

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1819&p=50812#p50812

There is more than one Brahma.
mu. 19.9.2005
"Satyug treta ko kaha jaata hai – Brahma ka din. Ek Brahma toh nahi hoga."
"Satyug and Treta are called the Day of Brahma. There will not be one Brahma."

Simple misunderstanding dear. It says- in G Age, there will not be just one Brahma (soul of DLR in his deity form), there will be others too (deities) with him. COMPLETE MISINTERPRETATION & MISAPPROPRIATION of Murli points, by taking them COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT, WITHOUT understanding the THREE ASPECTS OF TIME in the PROPER PERSPECTIVE!!!

Names of the Supreme Soul change as he changes bodies, from Brahma to Shankar, then Vishnu.
"Unki atma ka hi naam Shiv hai. Vah, kab badalta nahi. Sharir badalte hai toh naam bhi badal jaate. Jaise Brahma se Shankar, phir Vishnu” mu. 24.1.75
"The name of his soul is Shiv, it never changes. When the body changes, the name also changes. Like from Brahma - Shankar, then Vishnu." mu. 24.1.75

Mis understanding. Read Murli points PROPERLY. The underlined words are for human souls, the words in 'bold' are for Supreme Soul. ONCE AGAIN, COMPLETE MISINTERPRETATION & MISAPPROPRIATION of Murli points, by taking them COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT, WITHOUT understanding WHAT PART OF THE Murli IS RELATING TO WHOM!!!

Advance Party in physical bodies.

- Post No. 170- in detail - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... idi#p14352

BKs also believe so. They have taken rebirth. The Murli point says it clearly.

BVS are visible through these eyes.
mu 12.8.83
"B, V, Sh ko bhi Yaad karte hain, vah toh, en ankhoon se dekhne main aate hain."
"BVS are also remembered, they are visible through these eyes."

Yet to get adjacent sentences of the point.

Baba may be saying for discriminating Himself from others. Others can be felt/understood by seeing their PHYSICAL pictures, which are visible. But, even after seeing picture of star, ling, point, no one will be able to feel/understand Him as a divine energy, UNLESS & UNTIL one ACTUALLY EXPERIENCES HIM.
See the following-

SM 10-1-87(1):- Vah akar RajYog sikhate hain. Tum jaante ho ShivBaba humko padha rahe hain. Zaroor aankhon se dekhenge na. Atma bhi hai na. Tum kahte ho hum atma hain, zaroor star misal hain. DEKHNE BHI AATAA HAI. Khud atma kahti hai main star hun. Bahut maheen hun. Atma bhrukuti ke beech rahti hai. Yah bhi jaante hain. Koyi kahte hain hum kaise jaane. ACHCHA BHRUKUTI MAY NAHIN SAMJHO, KAHAAN NA KAHAAN TO HAI. BHRUKUTI MAY NAHIN SAMJHO TO AANKHON MAY SAMJHO. Atma hee kahti hai yeh mera shareer hai. Bhrukuti shuddh sthaan hai. Isliye atma kaa nivaas sthaan yahaan dikhaate hain. Teekaa nishaani bhee yahaan dee jaati hai.

= You know ShivBaba is teaching us. Definitely, you will see through eyes, is it not? (Point ShivBaba or his teachings). There is also soul, is it not? You say- we are souls, definitely, like star. IT IS ALSO VISIBLE(what- SOUL or STAR?), is it not? ...

Is soul visible? No. But, star is visible. Similarly, Baba may be saying physical pictures of B, V and S give enough clarity of them.

We can see here how much effort ShivBaba had taken in the beginning to teach 'bholi bhaali kanyaas' and 'maatas' (simple and innocent virgins and mothers).

See- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ath#p12567 Here, baba says- "even body speaks".

- baba has used the words- ShivBaba as well as BapDada synonymously in some cases. - to make children understand. http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ath#p11390

[sita]

Mis understanding. Read Murli points fully. The underlined words are for human souls, the bold are for Supreme Soul.

What about the next sentence....Jeise Brahma se Shankar, phir Vishnu.

[mbbhat]

What about the next sentence....Jeise Brahma se Shankar, phir Vishnu.

Sorry, I did not read this sentence. But, most probably, it may mean Brahma becomes Shankar too. So, B baba may play the role of Shankar, as he is a subtle deity already.

Some BKs believe B baba plays role of Shankar too. Even I had believed so. But, from the other Murli points, I believe Mama can fit to Shankar. But, many Murli points fit even to Subtle Brahma. I am writing views on this - Already written the title of the post, here- viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2422&p=50438#p50438 . But, it will take time to write in better words. Because the Murli points have to be listed in right sequence also.

So, I have no objection to believe Brahma plays role of Shankar as well as Vishnu, and even Saraswathi plays role of Vishnu(= Mahalakshmi) and Shankar as well*. Sometimes Baba says- B so V. But sometimes B so S so V (LN).

* - Baba has also said- consider yourself as Trimurti, and you too are Master Brahma, Master Vishnu and Master Shankar. So, I believe soul of B baba plays all the three roles at first place - then Mama - BapDada ALWAYS being her back-bone.
And- even though Brahma Baba is the first mother, (real Jagadamba), the practical title Jagadamba goes to smaller mother. Similarly, even though first Shankar may be B baba himself, practically that title may go to Mama's subtle stage, on account of her practical subtle functions.

Also- note sometimes Baba says- BVS, sometimes BSV. (Creation, Sustenance, Destruction, sometimes C, D and S). So, there are lots of things to be checked before writing the views.

[sita]

Who plays the role of Brahma? Is it the supreme Father through Brahma Baba or the soul of Brahma Baba himself?