Kamla Dixit

[mbbhat]

This is one of things which people who I introduced to Gyan accuse me of.

Got it.

I had a tough argument with pbk who gave me gyaan. But, when I listened to his explanation on ladder picture, I was influenced in some points. For few seconds, it was as if, I had felt there is something really worth and great knowledge in AIVV and ShivBaba could be there. But, since i had done very tough arguments, i think he would not have bold enough to ask me to sign to such a letter of faith what you have got.

So- there may be possibility that- the pbk who gave me gyaan , was ready to compromise with the letter of faith.

He had first told me to write a little bit more (like after churning Murli points, and Avyakt Vanis, etc, blah, blah, i believe real god of Gita is shivshankar bholenath in the form of Dixit in Kampil - not in exact words). But, when my facial expression changed, he hesitated, but did not feel any bad or confusion. But, gave the seat to me to speak. Then I myself asked him - "Is it enough to give letter of faith that- i believe god of Gita is shivshankr bholenath in the form Of Mr. Dixit in Kampli?" in 50 Rs bond paper?

He said - yes.

But, later I thought- what I had was not real faith like what I had developed while becoming Bk. It was just an excitation. Hence did not like to proceed. [And, just to know them and what they do, i would not like to give false letter of faith to get entry there].


But, later I came to know about ladder picture clearly. The great mistake/doubt in ladder picture which was found/arouse in my mind when the PBKs showed the old ladder picture, later then got clarified to me after getting Murli points from old Murlis- one of which I have put here.

http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=9&t= ... 675#p43675 [Post No. 73]

I know- this (ladder picture) may not be necessary to you. But, just to (make clear the reasons for myself having been influenced by PBKs ) conclude the incident, I just mentioned.
----

[arjun]

AFFIDAVIT OF LETTER OF CERTAINITY

IN THE PRESENCE OF: Baba Veerendra Deo Dixit and Kamala Devi Dixit Resident of village Kampil, distr. Farrukhabad, State Uttar Predesh (India)...

This is just a formality and happens in case of all other legal documents/affidavits all over India and is not happening just in case of AIVV. It is just not possible for the above two personalities to be practically present every time each of the thousands of souls signs it in the court everyday.

[fluffy bunny]

I have to question what the real purpose of such a letter is.

I dare say that it came about due to some problem in the past and this is their way of defending themselves ... perhaps from BKs or Vishnu Party members sneaking in and pretending to be PBKs to cause trouble.

However, if there is the smallest question of doubt that it is being presented *without* Kamla Dixit's expressed permission, then it will have absolute no legal ground whatsoever and could be considered fraudulent and it would be better if the PBKs did not do so.


Back in the 1980s, the BKWSU used to ask for a similar signed "letter of faith" and one had to hand it to their leaders. If I remember correctly, 'letters of faith' used to be mentioned in the Sakar Murlis. It was childish stuff but we were all asked to do so.

It is actually quite a typical technique of religions and cults in general and I suppose one purpose of them are to encourage one's faith in whatever one is signing. For example, the Scientologists demand their followers sign a billion-year contracts of absolute loyalty and service to the highest leadership.

Same too, in numerous countries Christians have been asked to stamp on pictures of Jesus or the cross to prove they no longer believe.

It would work at keeping out BK spies and troublesmakers because BKs would find it *very* difficult to sign such a piece of paper.


You see, mbbhat ... even though insultingly I don't expect you to read this far ... this is another example of where I think your strategy is faulted. The PBKs have evolved subject to the persecution of the BKs, the Vishnu Party and others. Consequently, they have evolved unnaturally, e.g. like a tree which does not grow straight because it is subject to a nasty wind.

The BKs blame the PBKs for becoming what they have made them like.

[Larena]

I have to question what the real purpose of such a letter is.

One of purposes which I was aware of was to pass an examination and to become entitled to listen to Gyan.

Sisters in the center told me something like this:
"You have to prove that you are worth of meeting Baba. You will be tested, examined. Unless you sign the letter, you will not be given any more Gyan." (it meant that a student is not allowed to listen to anything more except for the lesson of the Trimurti). But it is worthy mentioning that I did not receive even the class of the Trimurti before signing the letter. I had to sign it in Farrukhabad before they took me to the place where I could listen to the course (including the Trimurti), in Kampil. I the case of three other students from abroad the procedure was the same.

One of the students which I brought to PBKs shouted at me once "Why did you sign it yourself and why did you encourage me to do all this?!" I said: "I cannot answer this question even to myself. It was probably a result of my intelectual and emotional foolishness and immaturity." I still think the same.

[fluffy bunny]

I think there is an element of "magic" to this too ... something on a subtle mental or energetic level. I would even go as far as to say it would be black magic (occult) because it is unethical or a matter of bending others will.

By making an oath or putting your name down on a piece of paper to say you believe in something you cannot know at that stage, a little bit of your soul is captured.

I am not suggesting that "magic" actually exists ... although many strange things that we don't entirely understand too ... but that it works on our child-like minds in this way.

At the very least at the simple level of blackmail.

[arjun]

I have to question what the real purpose of such a letter is.

The purpose of the letter of faith is clear from its name itself, i.e. to gauge the extent of faith one has in the incorporeal Shiv playing His part through the corporeal medium.

I dare say that it came about due to some problem in the past and this is their way of defending themselves ... perhaps from BKs or Vishnu Party members sneaking in and pretending to be PBKs to cause trouble.

This has been clarified several times on this forum. For many years PBKs used to give letters of faith only on a plain paper. Mine is still on a plain paper like many other PBKs who joined before 1998 (I suppose). It was after the problems created by the Vishnu Party that PBKs were asked to give the letter of faith on a judicial stamp paper (affidavit) so that it could be produced in a Court of law, if required. It is not at all meant to blackmail anyone and nor has it been used to blackmail anyone so far. Just as someone can give letter of faith, he/she can also withdraw it officially.

However, if there is the smallest question of doubt that it is being presented *without* Kamla Dixit's expressed permission, then it will have absolute no legal ground whatsoever and could be considered fraudulent and it would be better if the PBKs did not do so.

This has also been clarified several times on this forum that ever since the exit of Kamala Deviji from AIVV, all the newcomers are shown the letter submitted by her at the time of her exit. They are asked to sign the letter of faith only if they still believe based on the advance knowledge that she is going to be revealed as Jagdamba in the end. So, there is nothing fraudulent about it. And she is very well aware of this procedure. If she felt that it was a fraud she was free to file a police complaint, which she has not done for the last 14 years, but is in fact in contact with many PBKs. There are many PBKs who have met her personally after her exit from AIVV.

[arjun]

Sisters in the center told me something like this:
"You have to prove that you are worth of meeting Baba. You will be tested, examined. Unless you sign the letter, you will not be given any more Gyan." (it meant that a student is not allowed to listen to anything more except for the lesson of the Trimurti). But it is worthy mentioning that I did not receive even the class of the Trimurti before signing the letter. I had to sign it in Farrukhabad before they took me to the place where I could listen to the course (including the Trimurti), in Kampil. I the case of three other students from abroad the procedure was the same.

One of the students which I brought to PBKs shouted at me once "Why did you sign it yourself and why did you encourage me to do all this?!" I said: "I cannot answer this question even to myself. It was probably a result of my intelectual and emotional foolishness and immaturity." I still think the same.

As far as I know all the PBKs from India and abroad sign the letter of faith only after getting the Advance Course in their respective places of residence if there is any Gitapathshala or mini-Madhubans located there. In case of foreigners like you the problem with AIVV is that there is hardly any Gitapathshala or mini-Madhubans abroad (except for London I suppose). So, the handful of foreigners who had/have become PBKs have gathered information or even undergone Advance Course from internet and come to undergo bhatti in India after they develop faith. This might have been the case with you as well. You could have insisted that you wish to undergo Trimurti Course before signing the letter of faith. At that time you might have shown over enthusiasm to undergo the bhatti and might have convinced the sisters that you don't require to undergo the same course before and during the bhatti to save time. Anyway, I will intimate about your case to AIVV, but as I have said earlier, unless you reveal your identity to AIVV facts cannot be verified and AIVV will continue to be maligned by anonymous members like you.

As far as I know the rules for bhatti are now clearly spelt and intimated to every individual before doing bhatti.

I know that you will never accept that I know you personally. If you are the person that I assume then you definitely showed over enthusiasm. And as far as faith is concerned I think ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) showed an equal faith in you and even praised you in many of the Murlis and Discussion CDs without naming you. You got several chances to travel with ShivBaba. You never complained about all this at that time. But now that you are an ex-PBK you are trying to malign AIVV. Anyway, that is drama and you are free to do anything that you wish.

[Larena]

As far as I know all the PBKs from India and abroad sign the letter of faith only after getting the Advance Course in their respective places of residence if there is any Gitapathshala or mini-Madhubans located there. In case of foreigners like you the problem with AIVV is that there is hardly any Gitapathshala or mini-Madhubans abroad (except for London I suppose). So, the handful of foreigners who had/have become PBKs have gathered information or even undergone Advance Course from internet and come to undergo bhatti in India after they develop faith. This might have been the case with you as well. You could have insisted that you wish to undergo Trimurti Course before signing the letter of faith. At that time you might have shown over enthusiasm to undergo the bhatti and might have convinced the Sisters that you don't require to undergo the same course before and during the bhatti to save time. Anyway, I will intimate about your case to AIVV, but as I have said earlier, unless you reveal your identity to AIVV facts cannot be verified and AIVV will continue to be maligned by anonymous members like you.

As far as I know the rules for bhatti are now clearly spelt and intimated to every individual before doing bhatti.

I know that you will never accept that I know you personally. If you are the person that I assume then you definitely showed over enthusiasm. And as far as faith is concerned I think ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) showed an equal faith in you and even praised you in many of the Murlis and Discussion CDs without naming you. You got several chances to travel with ShivBaba. You never complained about all this at that time. But now that you are an ex-PBK you are trying to malign AIVV. Anyway, that is drama and you are free to do anything that you wish.

Sad and awful what you wrote, Arjun. It only makes my opinion of PBKs stronger. If you want to convince me that you know me, don't ask me to reveal my ID - reveal your ID. You keep demanding people to reveal their IDs here ( I saw your posts in the forum), while you and AIVV teacher use false IDs even in their official papers. The fact that Virendra Dev Dixit uses a false ID card and convinces other to do the same is obvious ------- copies of transactions and tickets have been published in the Internet.

I don't malign, as you said, AIVV. AIVV tends to divide the world into two --- WE PBKs and ENEMIES. Nothing in between. I would like to repeat - I do not mean to malign. I share my experience among you pride PBKs ----very bitter experience in AIVV - the school to which I devoted my life. I received instead deceiptful information, manipulation, maltreatment in a deadly desease, loss of the family, job and loss of a simple human life. And you call it "i malign AIVV". You must be either blind or you are have no feelings like empathy. But let's stop this -
FACTS ARE ----- I DID NOT RECEIVE THE Trimurti COURSE BEFORE I HAD TO FACE THE NECCESSITY TO SING THE LETTER. AND THIS IS A SPIRITUAL CRIME ACCORDING TO THE LAW YOU BELIEVE IN.

[fluffy bunny]

The purpose of the letter of faith is clear from its name itself, i.e. to gauge the extent of faith one has in the incorporeal Shiv playing His part through the corporeal medium.

I understand that is what it is at a conscious level but I am questioning what its purpose is at a more subtle, unconscious level.

My problem with it is ... as I understand ... that one is asked to sign one *before* being able to meet Virendra Dev Dixit and complete the full study. In essence, that one has to assert one's faith in advance, not after a full test and at the end.

One could see it as a test of gullibility (willingness to believe) rather than a test of faith ... but I am sure it is a good tool to keep out destructive BK elements and so I accept its usefulness in that manner. Taking an oath is a very powerful thing for most people and effects their minds deeply.

Should you take an oath in something you truly cannot know at that point?

I'd be perfectly happy to meet, listen to and question Virendra Dev Dixit, and I am sure there are things I could learn, but I could not in good conscience sign a letter saying I believed him to have god inside him until after I had observed him and made my own decision. Correct me if I am wrong.

It was after the problems created by the Vishnu Party that PBKs were asked to give the letter of faith on a judicial stamp paper (affidavit) so that it could be produced in a Court of law, if required.

Just as I suspected ... "Hard cases make bad laws". I remember the core Vishnu Party members were legal advocates, became obsessed with destroying Virendra Dev Dixit and started their own religion. They believe their mother and Father are the Supreme Father and Supreme Mother of the Universe new website. There's nothing worse than crazy people with legal training ... I watched their English video, it's 95% rip off of the BKs/PBKs.

there is nothing fraudulent about it. And she is very well aware of this procedure. If she felt that it was a fraud she was free to file a police complaint, which she has not done for the last 14 years ...

I am not so sure, Arjun. I don't know Indian Law but I guess it is based a lot on English Law.

It would be a 'civil' matter, not a 'criminal' one, and so not one the police would get involved in. Such a suggestion is misleading proof. Kamla would have to get her own lawyer to take out an injunction to stop it and there could be many reasons why she does not; e.g. a lack of money and will to do so, simply not wishing the hassle or merely wishing to just put the matter behind her and forget about it. Or, as you might say, because secretly she knows and agrees and will one day come back.

It would really depends on whether she has given her permission for her name to be used or whether she even asked for it to be removed. I don't know the whole story.

Think about it ... if I was to write a contract using your and my name and start to insist ex-BKs signed it, and kept your name on it even though you had nothing to do with my activities, would that seem fair and correct to you?

[mbbhat]

FB soul wrote:- Should you take an oath in something you truly cannot know at that point**?

I'd be perfectly happy to meet, listen to and question Veerendra Dev Dixit, and I am sure there are things I could learn, but I could not in good conscience sign a letter saying I believed him to have god inside him until after I had observed him and made my own decision. Correct me if I am wrong.

This is limitation of your (and also everyone's numberwise,) intellect. You cannot know anything by knowledge. [but, your case is special- who depends on literal facts and figures ]

It is as good as saying - I will believe in Isaac Newton not by reading his books, but only by seeing him personally, and by asking him questions and doing discussions with him. [Arey- is Isaac Newton bound to sit and discuss with you? If you are interested, you should follow the procedure what is said there. It would be foolishness to expect the other person to behave or spend his time and energy for each and every individual to sit and discuss).*

Faith is developed by various ways.

1) By listening to the knowledge and understanding it.

2) By seeing some good character/contentment in someone.

3) And , by seeing benefit in personal life. But, this needs practical effort to be put .

If all the three are found/available/coincide, then that is highest/best/really truth.

Now, if you say- letter of faith should not be taken before meeting dixit, then Mount Abu or Kampil would be like market place. Anyone will come just like people visit tourist places.

I think- it is responsibility of PBKs to mention before taking letter of faith that- at present Kamala dixit is outside Yagya (better if it is disclosed that she had once lost faith in AIVV, got married and also have a child) , but we PBKs have faith that she will come back.

Because- pbk knowledge is based on the dependency on human beings (Chariot and Jagadamba who are claimed that they will not die) , where as in BKWSU, there is no dependency on such things. If one Dadi dies, another will become nimitt for that place. Its Jagadamba and Jagatpita are already fixed. This is already said in one week course itself.
------
* - This is another reason why it is said- knowledge sits in pure intellect.

What will happen if a person who has no basic knowledge in science comes and expects discussions with Isaac Newton? Same thing will happen here. Anyone who is either a fool (has no interest to become pure) or just wants to make fun can come there to discuss.

We are human beings (intellectuals). Hence, we should be able to understand or judge the truth in something in what we listen, else it implies our intellect is weak.

** - Can you say- what all you have pointed or understood truly so far? You have studied or know many philosophies, many things on science and many people. now, can you list each category and people you have studied in their sequence of accuracy (truth worthy and usefulness) and mention what percentage of score you give to each?

If we talk about knowing truly- how many in this world have tried to know whether their parents are their true parents or not?*** And, do you know any method to test for god whether it is god or not? Can you claim that (even if you have some method), others will certify your method?

*** - Of course, today we have science that can test DNAs, etc. In olden days- it would be impossible for a child to confirm whether the parents who have brought them up are truly its parents or not.

So- if we try to test truly, then finally it comes to - how much true (pure, powerful) we are, so much truly we can test others. So- accordingly how much interest in us to become true/pure, to so much we will realize True/God. Hence once again it is said- Knowledge/Truth sits in pure/true intellect.

thank you and thank you.

[mbbhat]

Arjun would wrote:- there is nothing fraudulent about it. And she is very well aware of this procedure. If she felt that it was a fraud she was free to file a police complaint, which she has not done for the last 14 years

Is this the way of arguing? They(PBKs) think if someone keeps quiet when had problem, there was no problem at all. Many times our arjun soul will act so, but will call me as childish.

It is OK. Let him call. It is part of drama.

[arjun]

Sad and awful what you wrote, Arjun. It only makes my opinion of PBKs stronger. If you want to convince me that you know me, don't ask me to reveal my ID - reveal your ID. You keep demanding people to reveal their IDs here ( I saw your posts in the forum), while you and AIVV teacher use false IDs even in their official papers. The fact that Veerendra Dev Dixit uses a false ID card and convinces other to do the same is obvious ------- copies of transactions and tickets have been published in the Internet.

I don't malign, as you said, AIVV. AIVV tends to divide the world into two --- WE PBKs and ENEMIES. Nothing in between. I would like to repeat - I do not mean to malign. I share my experience among you pride PBKs ----very bitter experience in AIVV - the school to which I devoted my life. I received instead deceiptful information, manipulation, maltreatment in a deadly desease, loss of the family, job and loss of a simple human life. And you call it "i malign AIVV". You must be either blind or you are have no feelings like empathy. But let's stop this -
FACTS ARE ----- I DID NOT RECEIVE THE Trimurti COURSE BEFORE I HAD TO FACE THE NECCESSITY TO SING THE LETTER. AND THIS IS A SPIRITUAL CRIME ACCORDING TO THE LAW YOU BELIEVE IN.

Larena,
I have not asked you to reveal your identity on this forum or to me. I have said that if you are really sincere in getting a solution to your complaints you will have to reveal your identity either to AIVV or to the Police. Without that your statements are just rumours. You are continuously maligning someone whose identity is known but you wish to remain anonymous so that nobody can harm you. You just wish to remain safe while putting others' life in risk and jeopardy. is not that double standards?

While accusing the teacher of AIVV you have accused me also of using false ID. When did I use false ID? Outside this forum (in my real life) I have never used false ID. On this forum almost everyone (including you, the admins, fluffy-bunny, etc.) on this forum is using a nickname and so am I. I am ready to reveal my identity on this forum provided that all the Members and readers reveal their identity. As regards the ID of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit used during travels, this issue has already been discussed on this forum.

As regards PBKs considering non-PBKs as enemies, it is totally false. I don't wish to argue on this topic.

As regards your signing the letter before course I have already given clarification.

[arjun]

I understand that is what it is at a conscious level but I am questioning what its purpose is at a more subtle, unconscious level.

My problem with it is ... as I understand ... that one is asked to sign one *before* being able to meet Veerendra Dev Dixit and complete the full study. In essence, that one has to assert one's faith in advance, not after a full test and at the end.

One could see it as a test of gullibility (willingness to believe) rather than a test of faith ... but I am sure it is a good tool to keep out destructive BK elements and so I accept its usefulness in that manner. Taking an oath is a very powerful thing for most people and effects their minds deeply.

Should you take an oath in something you truly cannot know at that point?

I'd be perfectly happy to meet, listen to and question Veerendra Dev Dixit, and I am sure there are things I could learn, but I could not in good conscience sign a letter saying I believed him to have god inside him until after I had observed him and made my own decision. Correct me if I am wrong.

I have already clarified that in case of all Indians, they are asked to sign only after undergoing the course. What larena has shared might be the experience of a few foreigners as there are no centers abroad to offer the course before coming to India. Even in India, I have heard that most PBKs are allowed to go for bhatti only after undergoing the course and after attending the classe for a few months. So, what larena has shared is a rarity and not the regular feature. And even this letter of faith and bhatti is compulsory only if a PBK wishes to meet ShivBaba in person. If someone wants to just attend the classes he/she can do so as long as he wishes without having to sign the letter of faith. He can observe Baba Virendra Dev Dixit on the video for as many years as he wishes before developing the faith to meet him in person. So, I don't think there is any blackmailing involved.

I am not so sure, Arjun. I don't know Indian Law but I guess it is based a lot on English Law.

It would be a 'civil' matter, not a 'criminal' one, and so not one the police would get involved in. Such a suggestion is misleading proof. Kamla would have to get her own lawyer to take out an injunction to stop it and there could be many reasons why she does not; e.g. a lack of money and will to do so, simply not wishing the hassle or merely wishing to just put the matter behind her and forget about it. Or, as you might say, because secretly she knows and agrees and will one day come back.

It would really depends on whether she has given her permission for her name to be used or whether she even asked for it to be removed. I don't know the whole story.

Think about it ... if I was to write a contract using your and my name and start to insist ex-BKs signed it, and kept your name on it even though you had nothing to do with my activities, would that seem fair and correct to you?

She is very well aware that thousands of PBKs are giving letters of faith using her name. And AIVV as well as Baba Virendra Dev Dixit are aware that she can file a legal case against the AIVV if she wishes. And in the letter of faith we are just telling that she is our mother. We are not making any claim to her personal property. For example, all Indians think that Mahatma Gandhi is the Father of the nation. Well, that does not make him their biological Father at all. Similarly, we believe Kamala Devi to be our spiritual mother. Well, if she doesn't believe we are her spiritual children then that does not cause any personal or financial loss to her. She can simply think that these people have gone mad.

[arjun]

I think- it is responsibility of PBKs to mention before taking letter of faith that- at present Kamala dixit is outside Yagya (better if it is disclosed that she had once lost faith in AIVV, got married and also have a child) , but we PBKs have faith that she will come back.

I have already stated in clear terms that new souls are shown the letter submitted by Kamala Deviji before they undergo bhatti or sign the letter of faith.

Because- PBK knowledge is based on the dependency on human beings (Chariot and Jagadamba who are claimed that they will not die) , where as in BKWSU, there is no dependency on such things. If one Dadi dies, another will become nimitt for that place. Its Jagadamba and Jagatpita are already fixed. This is already said in one week course itself.

We have never stated that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit or Kamala Devi will not die. We only said that Shankar will be the last person to leave his body. That is why he has been shown sitting above a globe while all other souls are returning to the Soul World in the picture of the Kalpa Tree published by BKWSU.

[mbbhat]

I have already stated in clear terms that new souls are shown the letter submitted by Kamala Deviji before they undergo bhatti or sign the letter of faith.

I was not disclosed about it (Kamala dixit was out of Yagya). The pbk who gave gyaan had said- Kamala dixit is Jagadmaba, Vedanti Behan is ....blah, blah blah. When i thought of giving letter of faith, he just asked me to go and get a stamp paper of 50 Rs and write (what i had written earlier in this topic) and give it to him.

May be- after reaching Kampil, they may show. i do not know. What i meant was- when a person develops faith, and thinks of taking step practically, before this stage itself this information should be given. But, this did not happen in my case.

We have never stated that Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit or Kamala Devi will not die. We only said that Shankar will be the last person to leave his body. That is why he has been shown sitting above a globe while all other souls are returning to the Soul World in the picture of the Kalpa Tree published by BKWSU.

I meant the same. Means their philosophy is dependent of the physical condition of the body of these two souls. That is- they believe that they will be last persons to die. So- it means that, for the physical eyes of the believers, they are immortal. Right? Because the believers are going to die before them (at least Shankar), is it not?