Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

[Sach_Khand]

So where is your anadi prajapita and when are you going to reveal him to the BK/PBK world ???

This type of questioning is not good.
Does Prajapita belongs only to Sanjeev i.e., me? If you are going by Murlis then is this point wrong? There is a point which says Prajapita bhee anadi hai. You will have to churn the point to understand it. But before that you have to accept that point. If you consider this point as an edition by BKs or point told by Dada and not ShivBaba, then you can neglect this point.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[Sach_Khand]

Dear Brother sach_khand, if each and every soul, including that of prajapita, is bound to go to the inert Paramdham (As believed by most of BKWSU cults), does not this mean that there is a break to the part played by every soul including prajapita. then how could he be considered as 'Anadi'? To be 'Anadi', his part must be eternal without any break.

I do not think that Paramdham is inert. It is said in Murlis that there is no thought in Paramdham. But that does not mean it is inert. Souls are Anadi. I hope you accept this. So, can any soul become inert? I really did not understand what you mean by inert. Do you mean to say as "Jad" (in Hindi). How can chaitanya become Jad? Chaitanya is always conscious. It's consciousness may change from being conscious about itself to being conscious about the physical body. It's focus of consciousness changes. But still it is conscious.
Now regarding Prajapita being anadi. I feel it is said with respect to therelation of creator - creation. Humanity is creation of Prajapita (of course along with ShivBaba). But Prajapita is not creation but the creator. And in the picture of The Kalpavriksha, the genealogical tree of humanity, there is a small picture of rosary too in the left lower side of the tree. In that rosary ot is written that the flower at the top is ShivBaba, the first bead next to the flower is Prajapita, the bead next to it is Jagadamba and after that the circular ring of other beads (108). I think that this is to show that Brahma is the adi from where the ring of beads starts and at which the ring of beads end. Whereas the bead representing Prajapita is above the adi bead. And hence is anadi like ShivBaba, the flower.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[new knowledge]

Dear brother sanjeev,
1) Do you mean that, in the picture of rosary, the bead which represents prajapita is different fron that bead which represents brahma i.e., are prajapita and brahma different souls?
2) if, in the picture of rosary, brahma is coupled with jagdamba, does this mean that prajapita is not coupled with any female bead?
3) where, in Murli, is it stated that prajapita is not creation of god?

[nivi]

Shivsena Bhai,

Dehdhari means "body-conciousness" attachment to body.
Unlike us, Supreme Soul Shiv forever remains detached even when he takes a body that's why he is called sade-shiv.

Nivi

[shivsena]

This type of questioning is not good.Does Prajapita belongs only to Sanjeev i.e., me? If you are going by Murlis then is this point wrong? There is a point which says Prajapita bhee anadi hai.
Sanjeev.

Dear sanjeev.

When i said "your prajapita", it does not mean that prajapita belongs only to sanjeev.... prajapita certainly belongs to everybody.....just as lacs of BKs believe that DL(Krishna's soul) is prajapita and thousands of PBKs believe that VD( Ram's soul) is prajapita and both are projecting it to the world as Chariot of God Shiva....so when i said "your prajapita" it means that i would very much like to know which soul you are projecting as prajapita--Chariot of Shiva, (so that we can tally with Murli points whether you are talking sense or not)....you took it in literal sense and hence you are feeling bad about it.....you tell others not to take anything in literal sense and you yourself have taken a small phrase "your prajapita" in literal sense and you say that this type of questioning is not good.....i think i made a very benign query (maybe in short) and it was certainly not meant to hurt you.....and if it did, then i take back my words.

I do believe that there is a Murli point "Prajapita bhi anadi hai" and i am sincerely trying to churn as to which soul it applies to.

shivsena.

[Sach_Khand]

Dear sanjeev.
you tell others not to take anything in literal sense and you yourself have taken a small phrase "your prajapita" in literal sense and you say that this type of questioning is not good.....i think i made a very benign query (maybe in short) and it was certainly not meant to hurt you.....and if it did, then i take back my words.

Let's forget it.

I do believe that there is a Murli point "Prajapita bhi anadi hai" and i am sincerely trying to churn as to which soul it applies to.

According to my churning it applies to the soul of Dada Lekharaj.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[Sach_Khand]

[

Dear Brother sanjeev,
1) Do you mean that, in the picture of rosary, the bead which represents prajapita is different fron that bead which represents Brahma i.e., are prajapita and Brahma different souls?
2) if, in the picture of rosary, Brahma is coupled with jagdamba, does this mean that prajapita is not coupled with any female bead?
3) where, in Murli, is it stated that prajapita is not creation of god?

(1) Obviously, two different beads are shown. The two beads together form Prajapita Brahma. And the flower above is Nirakar. This flower is the seat of ShivBaba. It is said in Murlis that ShivBaba is only GodFather. Then how is He mother? Who is Maat-pita? It is said for Prajapita Brahma. These two beads combined forms maat-pita of humanity. I hope you remember my question in another post where I had written (actually it was written by you probably in some other post) a Murli point referring Prajapita Brahma.

In the post "Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas." written by me in the commonroom group.
Sakar Murli, 23-3-78, Pg 2:
Vah geetaa sunaanevaale bhee koyi aise naheen kahenge ki hum raajaavon kaa raajaa banaate hain, manmanaabhav, mere bachche bano. Vah to Prajapita Brahma aur Jagadamba hee kah sakte. Apne ko koyi Prajapita Brahma kah na sake. KITNAA BHEE JHOOTAA VESH BANAAVE PARANTU YEH BAATEIN SAMJHAA NA SAKE. Yeh to ShivBaba hee samjhaate hain.

In English: Those who preach that (lokik) Gita do not say, we make King of Kings, manmanaabhav, become my children. Only Prajapita Brahma and Jagadamba can say that. Nobody can say I am Prajapita Brahma. Even if they put false costume (of Prajapita), they cannot explain these things. ShivBaba himself explains this.

In the above Murli point the interesting question that arises is about false costume (Veesh banana). While translating in English you had written as follows,
"Even if they put false costume (of Prajapita), they cannot explain these things."
So what does this constume refers to? Is prajapita a costume?
I feel it is so. And actually it applies to beads.
This costume of Prajapita Brahma means the two beads next to The Flower ShivBaba.
And the main question is Who is that soul that is the actual righteous master or owner of the two beads? Who actually has the capacity to hold that post? If any minister or a soldier sits on the throne that itself does not make him king. Because he cannot perform the duties as he does not have that capacity. Similarly, although anyone can claim to be Prajapita Brahma, he cannot perform the duties of parenting the whole of humanity.They cannot say manmanabhav, become my children.

So, answer to your first point is that Prajapita Brahma are surely two beads but not two different souls.

(2) I think that Jagadamba is not the actual Mother in the sense of being maat-pita. In the combined form of maat-pita jagadamba is not that maata. It is that Brahma bead that is referred to. Practically there is another soul too which gets connected with the Brahma bead so as to be called as Mother practically. And it is not Mama Saraswati's soul. I do not know who is that soul in the present.

(3) When it is said that Prajapita bhee anadi hai, what does that mean?
Also it is said in Murlis that souls knowing about the Supreme Soul Shiv is not considered as adoption. It is knowing Prajapita Brahma that makes adoption. Supreme Soul Shiv does not adopt human souls as they are anadi. But when souls become practical persons i.e., get a body then it is adoption and are called as children of Prajapita Brahma. For practical creation there is need to be practical in two forms. And how can bindi Shiv in the Nirakar state as ShivBaba be called as practical maat-pita? This is the reason that ShivBaba is only GodFather. But through Prajapita Brahma humanity gets parents and creation is made possible.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[shivsena]

According to my churning it applies to the soul of Dada Lekharaj.
Sanjeev.

Can you please explain how DL is anadi prajapita (one who has no beginning and end).....since he met his end in 1969.

shivsena.

[Sach_Khand]

Can you please explain how DL is anadi prajapita (one who has no beginning and end)....since he met his end in 1969.
shivsena.

Please go to the following post.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2171 (Anadi Prajapita: Is Creator and not creation, hence Anadi.)

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[mbbhat]

. But Prajapita is not creation but the creator.

I do not say the above statement is wrong. but it is not to be taken in literal sense. See the following points.


SM 22-03-73(1):- Vah Niraakaar baap IS Sakar Prajapita Brahma dwaaraa rachnaa rachte hain. Prajapita Brahma hai, Braahman braahmaniyaan bhee hain. To zaroor Prajapita Brahma kaa baap Parampita Paramatma hee hogaa jisko creator kahaa jaataa. -2 [prajapita]

= So definitely Father of Prajapita would be Supreme Soul who is called as creator.


SM 12-3-78(1):- Krishn ko kab Ppita Brahma nahin kaha jata. Naam gayahuva hau na. P pita B jo hokar gaye hain vah is samay present hain. To PRAJAPITA BRAHMA ki santan BKK dher hain. Yah hai PRAJAPITA BRAHMA ki owlaad. To zaroor PRAJAPITA BRAHMA ko bhi koyi Baap hoga na.


= .. so definitely there would be Father even to Prajapita Brahma, is it not? [So how can he be anaadi creator?]

9-7-81(1):- Ab Jagadamba ko barobar Sakar may dikhate hain. Sharirdhari hai. Jagatpita bhi hai jisko Prajapita bhi kaha jata hai. Jaise saare Jagat ki Amba hai, vaise saare Jagat ka pita hai. Zaroor donon hee yahaan honge. Donon ka bhi naam sunaya. Donon hai Prajapita aur Prajamata. AB DOOSRAA JAGATPITA KAHA JATA HAI NIRAKAR ShivBaba KO. SABKA PITA HAI. UNKA NAAM HEE HAI PARAMPITA PARAMATMA Shiv.

= Jagadamba is shown in Sakar. (She is) bodily personality. Jagatpita(Father of world) is also there who is also called as Prajapita. Like there is mother of whole world, there/he is Father of whole world. Definitely both would be here. Names of both are told. The two are Prajapita(Father of citizens) and PrajaMata(Mother of praja= citizens). Now the SECOND JAGATPITA IS SAID FOR INCORPOREAL ShivBaba. He is Father of ALL. His name itself is Parampita paramatma Shiv.

See- usually Baba says- Shiv is not Prajapita(= Jagatpita). but here Baba says I am also Jagatpita.

See two contradicting statements from ShivBaba. [In fact, it is not so. What i mean is- sometime Baba wishes to stress about Shiv and sometimes about Prajapita. In the former case, Baba says even Prajapita is creation, but when he wishes to teach body conscious children, he says Prajapita is also creator. Because if children's intellect does not catch shiv, let it reach at least Prajapita. Also ShivBaba needs to speak about incarnation- so he has to stress about Sakar body.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2171&p=33367#p33367


SM 18-10-72(1):- To baap baith samjhaate hain main saare kalp vruksh ka beejroop hun. Yah to BVS athvaa Krishn bhi kah nahin saktey. EK Shiv KE SIVAA KISKO BHI CREATOR NAHIN KAHA JAA SAKTAA. VAHI EK CREATOR HAI. Baaki sabhi uskey creation hain. Ab creator se creation ko varsaa miltaa hai. Sabhi kahte bhi hain humko Ishwar ne athvaa Khudaa ne athvaa God ne paidaa kiya. TO IS EK ISHWAR KO SABHI Father KAHENGE. Gandhi ko to Father nahin kahenge. Behad ka rachaitaa Baap vah ek hee hai. Vah baith samjhaate hain ki main hee tunmhhaaraa paaralowkik param priy parmatma hun. -168 [vah, creator]

= Except to one Shiv no one can be called as creator! Only he is creator. All the rest are his creations!

- So how can be Prajapita called as creator?

[Sach_Khand]

- So how can be Prajapita called as creator?

It is not me who is calling Prajapita as creator. I am quoting Murli point. If I am wrong in quoting it then explain what does this Murli point mean.

Murli Dt. 9.7.93:
"Tum sabse kaha sakte ho vaastav mein tum bhee Brahmakumar Kumari ho. Prajapita Brahma ko toh jaanate ho. Vah rachaita hai manushya srushti ka. Nirakaar ParamPita Paramaatma koee aatmaonka rachaita naheen, vah toh aatmonka anadi Baap hai. Prajapita Brahma bhee toh anaadi hai."

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[mbbhat]

If I am wrong in quoting it then explain what does this Murli point mean.

Have I said that you are wrong? Please do not lose patience while discussing here, my dear friend!

Universal Truth [Deepest Karma(Action) Philosophy]:

Whom do I depend on or who depend on me? For example, I need food. I get salary from Government or my employer(say). {Even Government gets it by taxes of people and the employer earns by work of people}. But money cannot feed me. I need rice or wheat, etc. I have to approach a grocery shop. But even that merchant or the shopkeeper does not produce rice by himself. He gets rice from a farmer. The farmer gets rice from earth by cultivation. In earth, the food(rice or wheat) is created by(grown in) green plants. Even the green plants grow wheat under the power of sunlight.

They need water. Water is also created by sun. (Evaporation of sea water by sunlight creates cloud and causes rain).
We need oxygen to breathe. It is also a product of sun. Green plants convert carbon-di-oxide into oxygen by the power of sunlight. Hence in this sense, Sun is Father of all.

But, at the end of Iron Age, all the elements of nature become polluted and weak. Even the Ozone layer has become weak. Global warming has become uncontrollable. Sun cannot restore entropy. Sun cannot change character of human being. Sun cannot give knowledge to human beings. It is just an object. During such a time, it is GOD who fills power in them. He incarnates and restores entropy at the end of Iron Age. Hence GOD is the only (real) creator. Hence he alone has the name CREATOR.

So, the most important knowledge is- God alone is the real donor. What I have with me is in fact given by God. What others have is also given by God. So, I should not have either ego(superiority comlex) or fear (inferiority complex). I should not disturb (try to influence) or get disturbed (influenced) by others. All are just agents/distributors in this world. Any human being is a receiver. The right action is to become both humble and powerful(stable). Everybody is like a government servant who does service to others, gets service from others but he is paid by the Government and not by those with whom he deals. This only can build stable personality. This is the soul conscious stage. More one is soul conscious, he is the nearest(more real) child to God. Hence he gets more birth-right. (More details are given later **). Being influenced by anybody other than God is both foolishness and wrong.

Consider a person attending a function. He is served with dishes. While being served, he does not get influenced by those who serve him (distributors, servants, workers). But he pays limited(just to the required extent) respect to these distributors. He pays FULL RESPECT AND LOVE to the owner(organizer) of the function.
He loves(enjoys or thinks of) only two things, the FOOD and the REAL DONOUR/OWNER. Rest everythings are silly or ordinary. If he gets influenced by the distributors, he is weak, foolish and ignorant. Not only that he will be a disturbance to others.

There is a big chain in the process. I am dependent on many like my employer (who pays me salary), merchant, farmer, earth, plants, Sun, God, etc. as explained above. God is the only true giver. He gives property of heaven. So I should be influenced just by God and his property (like owner and the food). Others in the chain are just distributors. Getting influenced by distributors or having expectations from them is ignorance and against reality(truth). SUCH WRONG THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS ARE CALLED AS SIN. So one should know and develop immovable fath that all and everything in this world are just distributors/agents and God alone is the real donour. This is the highest truth. To the extent one realizes this, he follows the truth. THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF THE WHOLE KNOWLEDGE OR LIFE.

In this process- farmer gives us food by cultivation. but real donor and creator is sun. When compared to sun, farmer is worth not a penny and not creator at all. But when compared to other lazy people the farmer is also donor and creator of food.

The number one farmer is Prajapita Brahma. Hence he is both creator and creation

[Sach_Khand]

Have I said that you are wrong? Please do not lose patience while discussing here, my dear friend!

I am tired of reading such sugar coated taunts and the artificial divine virtues that are expressed in this forum.

The number one farmer is Prajapita Brahma. Hence he is both creator and creation

When you too admit that Prajapita too is creator then what for did you oppose the fact before?

If you think that all are creator in their own capacity and similarly Prajapita too is a creator, then you are wrong. There is vast difference in Prajapita being creator and other Brahmins (and all human beings) being creator of their own destiny. All human beings are not called as Anadi. Not even Jagadamba is called as Anadi. It is said in Murli that Jagadamba too has mother, Eve is her mother. Anadi is called for only two in Murlis, ShivBaba and all souls are Anadi. Next is Prajapita as a practical jeevatma is Anadi. All other human beings are not called as Anadi like Prajapita. Why is it said so? We have to churn and understand the Murli points. I think I have not written or quoted any Murli point wrongly in this post.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[Sach_Khand]

So, the most important knowledge is- God alone is the real donor. What I have with me is in fact given by God. What others have is also given by God. So, I should not have either ego(superiority comlex) or fear (inferiority complex). I should not disturb (try to influence) or get disturbed (influenced) by others. All are just agents/distributors in this world. Any human being is a receiver. The right action is to become both humble and powerful(stable). Everybody is like a government servant who does service to others, gets service from others but he is paid by the Government and not by those with whom he deals. This only can build stable personality. This is the soul conscious stage. More one is soul conscious, he is the nearest(more real) child to God. Hence he gets more birth-right. (More details are given later **). Being influenced by anybody other than God is both foolishness and wrong.

Not acknowledging the personality through whom ShivBaba gives the inheritence is in no way being humble. And it shows the weakness and unstable state of that person because only stable and powerful ones can acknowledge and thank for the services he/she receives.

Consider a person attending a function. He is served with dishes. While being served, he does not get influenced by those who serve him (distributors, servants, workers). But he pays limited(just to the required extent) respect to these distributors. He pays FULL RESPECT AND LOVE to the owner(organizer) of the function.

A good master will not like anyone disrespecting his servants.
I hope you have seen the Hindi film "lage raho munna bhaee". In that a girl asks for advice to the munna bhaee. She had to decide whether the boy she was to meet in the restaurant is good for her marriage. She really had no idea how can a person's inner personality be decided in just one meeting of 10-15 minutes. The advice given by munna bhaee was that just observe how that boy treats the server of that hotel. How he calls the server. If he calls him with respect then that person is a nice man if not reject that person.
Being soul conscious does not mean not to acknowledge anyone's part in the drama.

Getting influenced by distributors or having expectations from them is ignorance and against reality(truth). SUCH WRONG THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS ARE CALLED AS SIN. So one should know and develop immovable fath that all and everything in this world are just distributors/agents and God alone is the real donour. This is the highest truth. To the extent one realizes this, he follows the truth. THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF THE WHOLE KNOWLEDGE OR LIFE.

Does The GodFather give milk without a Cow or a mother? You may create soya bean milk and drink it, but for a child mother's milk is the best.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[mbbhat]

When you too admit that Prajapita too is creator then what for did you oppose the fact before?

I have not opposed at all. I have said that anaadi for ShivBaba has different meaning when it is said for Prajapita. I have4 already explained that annadi means Prajapita was already there when shiv descended.

If you think that all are creator in their own capacity and similarly Prajapita too is a creator, then you are wrong. There is vast difference in Prajapita being creator and other Brahmins (and all human beings) being creator of their own destiny.

I also say the same!

All human beings are not called as Anadi. Not even Jagadamba is called as Anadi.

Here the difference comes between me and you. What is the meaning of anaadi according to you?

When Baba says- srushti is anaadi- what does it mean?

Next is Prajapita as a practical jeevatma is Anadi.

Is there any Murli point that says- jeevatma is anaadi?

I think I have not written or quoted any Murli point wrongly in this post.

I did not find no wrong in you. I just commented my views. Take everything in like a sportsman's spirit.