I get in or pull him out

[joel]

... and the music is somewhat mind-numbing, irritating. Overall, however, I find it quite incisive. Several spooky aspects, especially: "I would even kill for you."

Worth seeing because it makes clear how much the BKs share with other cults that as a BK I would have considered evil and mind-controlling. (Not BKs of course, as at the time I considered the BKs to be my true family.) I would note that times of crisis--financial crisis, health problems, emotional problems--tend to sort out who are genuine friends and family. A crisis can be a needed (sometimes harsh) wakeup call.

[jannisder]

The outcome is here i think. Too personal for the thread, i expect (hope) to see him on this forum soon.

Send a PM and i'll send you the outcome for i shall share with you !!! But for this ... not with the world.

Love Jan.

[jannisder]

As a born fighter, it was to easy to stop at this time.

Lose my friend for being Maya ... in his lokik world was, and is just not done. He is so full of BapDada, what I still consider to be a nonsense story. What if the medium dies? "The Destruction of the world", was his answer. (OH BOY ... please don't give me any bad thoughts now, like ... wish you were dead ... today Gulzar ... !). I am overflowed with pain that anyone with a good sense can believe all this BK so-called Godess knowledge is true!! ( GET YOURE ACT TOGETHER!!!)

What is it that you have come this far to believe it!! Give up you're life as in lokik seeing ... all for something that is really not the truth and still cope with that??? YOU MUST BE IN PAIN!! Was there really nothing else for you to turn to??? Hey, I understand ... it is OK ... !
What is it that many of you BK's come to believe that something is not to be explained yet still believe it??? Is it EGO ... being Laxshmi and Narayan in the Golden Age???

Many of you are good educated people and even if you are not WHAT is it??? Explore it but never get hooked on it. You don't know "the truth", no one does EVER! You're God may be not My God ... so whose is the real God??? What you experience with you're God ... My God is much closer with me (in my daily life) and will never tell me that i am weak. But tells me that my seat in his world is there for me ... no mather what!!!

Look in you're Murli and see what can happen to you if you do not follow the rules ... does it come from GOD or from BK??? I did the course, invited to morning class anyway ... considered as a BK, I will continue to follow as in the role of Maya ... to explore. With something to find out ... and get out ... as in the topic of this thread, i hope, together ... ! Although i have been giving him about all the bad stuff, he is still here ... every day! I thank (my) God for that. As BK or ex-BK, PBK or whatever we can all shake hands for wanting to know anything that is ... IS ... that is the word ...

We all know the law of attraction, it is quite simple.

[john]

What if the medium dies? ... the Destruction of the world ... was his answer.

But we know that is not the case because BrahmaBaba, the medium, died or left his body. I wish you well Jannisder, affairs of the heart are never easy in this day and age.

[di]

Dear Jan, I am so sorry for what you are going through and your pain. You have written exactly what I feel and my views on God. It seems you and I have the same loving, caring God not this destroyer of love.

I am soooo tired now. The little bits of getting better are getting less, he goes more and more, comes home a polite stranger and things are not good, but he feels he will suffer 10 fold if he doesn't follow this path. He is totally hooked on "he has seen God and felt him and nothing can compare with that". How can I compete with that? I cannot. I don't have much fight left in me now as there doesn't seem to be any point in going over and over things and nothing changing (except for the worst). I really feel for you Jan. Take care, you're not alone in your struggle and my thoughts and prayers are with you. Sadly, I do not see a happy outcome for either of us.

[alladin]

Your stories are so painful and intricated that I don't feel like commenting or advising. They would deserve sleepless nights of talking, more than few words written and sent through a PC!

I empathize with being a fighter and not wanting to give up. I am stubborn and I had for a long time the habit of wanting to help others. I had to cure myself from it, I was exhausted! Those people send mixed messages. One moment they want you near, next they push you away. So they drive you crazy.

Competing with your friend's addiction means loosing, most of the times. Nothing makes them feel as good as their drug, alchool or whatever it is. A top model rival, would be preferable! Take a look again in the Commonroom topic on AA, where Proy mentions the possibility for BK-ism to become also a form of dependency. The conclusion, and suggestion for me, would be; try and go to an Al-Anon group, affiliated to AA. They opened new horizons and liberated me from co-dependency, I am really grateful to them.

It doesn't cost you anything. No long term commitment or pressure there. Take a look, you may get a new perspective, solutions and tools to either fight the battle more efficiently. Or decide it's not worth it and that you deserve better treatment from yourself and others.

Love

[jannisder]

Don't need to be tired anymore Di, you'll feel better now. I know it!!! Let's shake the mountain some more!!! We gather or own army of "spooks" together and let's go!! In the name of GOD!!

Love, Jan.

[di]

I do feel better now, re-energised ... Its good to know there are so many of us out here who are not prepared to have our families stolen, programed and used; especially in the name of God. We who are prepared to stand up and be counted to expose them for what this 'institution' really is all about.

Alladin, wise advise. Al-Anon is a fantastic support group and what you say is so true. I have decided that my partner can decide for himself. He has free will and is supposed to be a big boy now. That does not mean that I will take this laying down. To think that these people can go in under the guise of "educators" in our school system is terrifying, and have been at my children's school ... they underestimate the mother tigers in this world. The utter arogance to come and spy and influence in my home ... I know who it is who has been visiting at 4 am. We have work to do. Bring it on!

[fluffy bunny]

To think that these people can go in under the guise of "educators" in our school system is terrifying, and have been at my children's school ... they underestimate the mother tigers in this world. The utter arogance to come and spy and influence in my home ... I know who it is who has been visiting at 4 am. We have work to do. Bring it on!

The BKWSU seem to have dug themselves right into the Indian and Australian government education systems. I posted about the Indian ones elsewhere but for an example; Values Education Australia. Do these schools know about the 5,000 years Cycle, Destruction and Dinosaurs?

There was an amazing women that fought the Scientologists out of the Californian education system, under the threats of violence and personal attacks towards her person and professional reputation. They were trying to get in to schools on a similar offering of free beneficial courses hiding their real beliefs and modus operandi. (Click the link for the famous 'South Park' Scientology episode that kind of applies to any cult. It is very funny and not without its own human wisdom. The Scientologists have to sign a contract for 1 billion years; the BKs sign up for Eternity!).

To be honest, and you can quote me on this, I think the BKWSU are the Scientologist of India. They will probably both gang up together to "protect their rights". The Church of Scientology is already getting into "Human Rights" remarketing and fighting "anti-religious extremism" and if you have been watching the Wikipedia.com page on the BKWSU, certain BKs are already acting just like suppressive Scientologists attacking or erasing anyone that questions or expose them. Please bear in mind, what really upset the Scientologists was that in late 1994 and early 1995 "a few 'copyright anarchists' unlawfully acquired copies of unpublished Church of Scientology 'scriptures' and posted them on the Internet". Sounds familiar folks!?!

Pamela Lichtenwalner: 'CONFRONTING COERCIVE GROUPS IN SCHOOLS - Narconon around the World'

Pamela Lichtenwalner is an American Educator and Teacher. In 2004 she successfully challenged Narconon drug education in state-sponsored and charter schools in California. More recently she helped to prevent similar Narconon involvement in Israel and Scotland.

You might be able to listen to her speak on how she did it here, at the FAIR (Family-Action-Information-Resource) anti-cult conference.

The BKWSU service front thing is called, "Living Values Education Program [LVEP]". I actually admit that there are positive elements to some Scientology tech, and likewise, it is hard to appear entirely critical about the noises the BK are making through the LVEP. I saw the very start of their trying to find a way into the mainstream but I was out before it came on full stream. You might say it is all just "darna" or inculcation of virtues ... but it does also involve a subtle initiations into BK Raja Yoga meditation and Yoga with Shiva for kids, like these Karen people refugee kids;


© BKWSU/LVEP

The way it works, approximately is that a load of BKs get together and think up a service plan to promote BK Raja Yoga, the BKWSU or may be just Janki. Think up something to call it 'positive and worthy' that does not mention God Shiva, 5,000 Cycles, Hinduism, the End of the World or anything. They organize events and invite IP, VIPs, academics ... anyone they can get to come and talk. Some of them bite, are given lots of attention by the Dadis/Sisters (like Robert Muller or Robin Gibb), get loved up and become faces for the service plan. It fluffs their ego, the BKs provide an audience, it all looks good for strangers.

At these events, there are other BKs on stage, in the audience and in the groups. Some dress in whites, others in ordinary clothes, some presented as BKs, some as whatever they are in ordinary life and some as representatives of other BK service fronts. In the LVEP, you have people International Lawyer Chris Drake, head master Nick Hawkesas "experts" recommending it, who are also actually BKs ... although this is not mentioned. Any BK with a good accent or a polyester sari are given titles like 'President of' ... 'Director of' ... 'International something' ... 'Global something else" ... "UN representative" etc ... but they are all BK. Its like the mason but without the heritage and class; instead of the 'funny handshakes', you have the knowing Dhristi, golden Madubhan rings and tiny little lapel badges.

The BKs usually out number the non-BKs considerably but they don't know it. The non-BK think that have just met a nice group of people. When they talk, all the BK zap them with their dhristi and have Yoga hard. You can guarantee when a BK is saying nothing, they are having deep tapasya ... or trying. And it seems like now they get to throw in serviceable ex-BK professionals who keep in contact and BK or Dadi Janki 'groupies'. (Funnily enough, they have never asked me ...). Obviously, the BKs are all singing to the same Murli sheet and the SS run the show.

And ... 6 months, 2 years whatever ... they have something like the LVEP programme that they "dedicate to the United Nations" which once accepted is then sold on as a "United Nations programme" which it was not. And now they have even learnt the trick of raising funding from governments and education departments to run their centers and do their service!

OK ... that is a kind of "20 word or less" approximation of how it goes. Someone else has to fill in the specific gaps here, especially for the LVEP because when I was around they only had a handful of "professionals" to hawk around and were just starting to look for covers. It all been pure Hinduism before then and to an extent, again in my esteem, these types of service plans came out of Westerners who were too mortally embarassed to submit to the failure of Hindi-style service that the Janaks of this world want done; peace marches, stalls outside grocery stores, Godly letters to VIP etc.

In my opinion, it is just a front to get professional or influential people into the BK Raja Yoga centers and to meet senior sisters to further the cause. I am utterly skeptic, BKs don't just "do good", there is a single agenda because the End of the World is going to happen in 1986 or something. It seems to be that things like the LVEP and SML service fronts have taken on a life of their own and I do not know what is going on ... it seems the horse has bolted. BUT ... if they are going about initiating kids into Yoga with Shiva without stating what is going on, seeding families, that is wrong. Of course, targetting the poor and vulnerable will be rich pickings for them.

There is also a financial co-promotion/business aspect now because it seems like they use other BK's products, it looks like the relaxkids.com stuff and others CDs to me, and sell the materials through their information business.

If you want to hear about how Scientology and Tom Cruise reacted to be made to come out of the closet by South Park and journalists doing exposés - especially to the cults reaction against journalists speaking to ex-members - then click here Youtube Scientology versus South Park ... again, the reactions of the Scientologist leaders are spookily similar to those that I have heard from BKWSU leaders ... except for the threats of suing. We can only wait and see.

[jannisder]

from BK website

Education - Living Values Education Programme (LVEP)
“I see the world differently as a result of Living Values. The global approach of Living Values is, paradoxically, to see how small the world really is. I realize that the world’s problems –and solutions – are fundamentally values–related. I recognize the unending scope of possibilities: understanding that one can do so much with so little. I now have the courage and self–confidence to do things that are bigger than I am – to keep planting seeds that will ultimately make a difference.” —Kathleen A. Shea, Ph.D., President, IAM Inc., and Florida Coordinator, Living Values, Miami, Florida

Living Values Education Programme is a comprehensive values education programme that provides resources for values–based education, including training and a wide variety of experiential, values–based activities and methodologies for educators, facilitators, parents, and caregivers. These activities and methodologies enable children and young adults to explore and develop 12 universal core values: cooperation, freedom, happiness, honesty, humility, love, peace, respect, responsibility, simplicity, tolerance, and unity.

Living Values Education Results:

• Increased student–teacher respect
  Improved cooperation and ability to resolve conflicts
  Increased motivation to learn
  Decreased aggression as respect and caring increase

Living Values Education Background

The Brahma Kumaris were very closely involved in the development and initial phases of LVEP. The programme’s origins go back to the international outreach project Sharing our Values for a Better World carried out by the Brahma Kumaris in 1995. A publication entitled Living Values: A Guidebook was compiled by the Brahma Kumaris to honour the 50th anniversary of the United Nations.

In 1996, at a meeting co–sponsored by The Education Cluster UNICEF and the Brahma Kumaris, educators from around the world shared findings of working with values–based approaches in education. The outcome of this meeting was ‘The Living Values Educational Initiative’ and the commitment to compile and pilot a set of values education materials. Two years later the initiative grew into a programme, and the materials were further developed into an award–winning series of five resource books (see below) for use by teachers and facilitators in formal and non–formal educational settings.

Living Values Education Scope & Resources
As LVEP reached into more classrooms around the world, it increasingly began to be implemented by educators of a wide variety of backgrounds and cultures, inspired by the fact that the values it promotes are not limited to any religion, philosophy or group. Living Values is currently being implemented in more than 8,000 sites in nearly 80 countries.

The Living Values series of five books, published in 2000 by Health Communications, Inc., was awarded Learning Magazine’s Teachers’ Choice Award for 2002. Additional materials include Living Values Activities for Refugees and Children Affected by War as well as Living Values Activities for Street Children and Living Values Activities for Drug Rehabilitation. These publications are written within the framework of field experiences from educators from around the world and are set within the context of the United Nations’ Convention on the Rights of the Child and Living Values: A Guidebook.

Living Values Education Administration
In 2004 the Association for Living Values Education International (ALIVE) was established to provide an international home for all Living Values Education activities around the world and the many different national Living Values Education Associations.

While the Brahma Kumaris continue to give their moral support, endorsement and blessings, ALIVE has formed its own independent Board of Directors and International Advisory Committee and has taken over responsibility for the coordination of Living Values Education worldwide.

Under this new structure, Living Values Education continues to invite the active participation of individuals with an interest in values-based approaches to values-based learning. Further information is available online at Living Values.

[jannisder]

also http://www.whartonrio06.org/index.php?o ... &Itemid=92

and more to read if you have not much else to do like me :lol:

http://www.plotki.net/cms/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=14
http://www.skepsis.nl/nrm.html
http://www.iskenderiye.com/wp_encyclopedia/?p=30301
http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/c ... xm8g52h8e/
http://dlibrary.acu.edu.au/research/the ... iorgio.doc
http://www.ivofhope.org/conversations/miami.htm
http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v ... 000007.htm
http://news.adventist.org/data/2003/07/ ... ex.html.en
http://www.lifepositive.com/mind/parano ... ctions.asp
http://www.livingvalues.net/resources/index.html
http://www.livingvalues.net/guyana/index.html

[abrahma kumar]

Just to say hi to the thread ;) Will catch up more thoroughly on it later.

[fluffy bunny]

While the Brahma Kumaris continue to give their moral support, endorsement and blessings, ALIVE has formed its own independent Board of Directors and International Advisory Committee and has taken over responsibility for the coordination of Living Values Education worldwide.

"Blessings" is a very BK word.

Its a bit like the old fashioned Freemasons saying, "on the level" or "being square" etc. Its a little indication that gives other BKs the wink and nod that the venture is safely BK controlled. What probably happens is that they get one or two VIPs or IPs to turn up once or twice but then fade out, and then they run it themselves. They may have a part-time ex-BK involved to keep them close.

Because this is teachers and schools, children and development issues, those environments are hungry for any types of materials and an easy target. But we should analyse the material for BK subliminal messages elsewhere int he forum.

• Its hard to pick through the blah-blah-blah. Its blah-blah-blah to tire people's attention out, like the pea nder the shell trick. But if one reads this paragraph above, one might question how "independent" the "Board of Directors and International Advisory Committee" are.

Janisder, some might accuse me of having a biased opinion. Personally, I would say I have a very objective point of view about these things and that I am merely jaded by the all the wordy dishonesties and disguises.

• • What is your opinion, are the board and committee "independent"?

If you feel that they are not independent, would you consider that the BKs are being dishonest and would this be enough to professionally discredit them?

[di]

If a person or group has a vested interest in a program, they cannot be independant. It is a conflict of interest as it is not possible for them to be impartial. Maybe this should be moved to the thread I started in the common room, rename the thread if it makes it more appropriate to where the discussion is going? The independant board of directors and advisory committee was what I was refering to as deception.

[jannisder]

What if ... You are a BK teacher and play in a rockband ...??? I think its OK. What does BK organisation. see abouth that? Any experience anyone?