Vishnu Party Ahmedabad

[sakshi delhi]

IDENTIFICATION OF GOD
================

param shanti,

There are many notions about God. These notions are contradictory to one another . For example some say God is manifests , others proclaim him to be unmanifest. There are still others who assert God to be incorporeal Many people do not believe in the existence of God. They are still some sects who consider God to be omnipresent whereas others think omnipresence to be an abuse the God. So these contradictory views create confusions in the mind of an ordinary person, which version is correct and which should be accepted , which one is to be rejected? How to decide? Despite the confusions, all religions of the world which believe in the existence of the God have one thing in common, they all say God is one. No religion has ever asserted the multiplicity of god.

Here arises an obvious question “ if God is one and identified , then that identify must satisfy all the notions about Him, though they are contradictory to one another apparently “. So what is the reality?

Here we would like to quote the story of six blind men and an elephant. The six blind men put their hands on different parts of the elephant and each tried to describe yhe whoe animal from the point of view of the part touched by him. The man who caught the ear, said the elephant was like a country made fan. The person touching the leg said, the elephant was like a pillar; the holder of the trunk said, it was like a python; the feeler of tail said, it was like a rope ; the person who touched the side said, said the animal was like a wall and the man who touched the forehead said, the elephant was like a breast.
And all six quarreled among themselves ;each asserting that his description alone was correct. But he who can see the whole elephant, can easily know that each blind man feels only a part of the elephant ,which he mistakes to be a whole animal. All ideological and religious differences and disputes are mainly due to mistaking a partial truth for the whole truth. The judgment represents different aspects of many sided reality and can claim only partial truth.

Similarly, God has many sided realities. To describe god, taking only one sided or partial approach would not give full knowledge about God. Here we would like to quote an example from Guru Granth Sahib where it is stated that if water of all the oceans is collected and make ink and if wood of all trees is made a pen and if whole the earth be made a paper, even then we cannot explain the glory and grandeur of God. Then how can one sided reality presented by a particular religion or sect, explain the multiplicity, the many sided reality of God. It is bound to be a partial truth. So what is the reality? Here we would like to give you a brief description of the World Drama.

In the beginning of the World drama, God is power and only power in a corporeal form. He is called Shiva. The incorporeal power has combined, boundless light and boundless might. Here the Might was also in a form of light from him, come out different souls, who too are in incorporeal form. With the passage of time and continuing sub-division of power, the number of souls created go on increasing in the Supreme Abode, i.e. Paramdham. In Paramdham, the souls are incorporeal above feelings, thoughts, emotions and actions. After a long time with the emergence of the thoughts like ‘Who am I?’, the incorporeal form of God starts transforming int body of light with shape. But that light body is full of energy. The other souls following the same suite acquire the body of light with definite shape and descend from Supreme Abode to the Moolvatan. Here thoughts come in the mind, thereby decreasing the power of the light. The decrease in the power of light leads the formation of supreme elements. Thus, light goes on decreasing and the corresponding supreme elements goes on increasing. With the further thoughts of creation, more and more souls are created leading to increase in population in the Moolvatan.

After a long a time when the power of soul diminishes from 16 celestial degrees to 14 celestial degrees, the souls descend from Mool vatan to Subtle Region, other subtle organs of soul come up. The colour of the suls also changes from golden in the Mool Vatan to white in Suksham Vatan. Till now the souls created are in combined form of light and might. But with the continuing downfall due to loss of the power in the creation of the new souls and atmosphere of supreme elements, the souls which were 14 celestial degrees in the beginning of the Suksham vatan gradually fall to 9 celestial degrees. The Supreme light which was 100% initially, now reduces to 49% and might which was initially 100% now becomes 51%. The might gives a jerk to light and gets separated from the light from in the combined and thus male and female are created. But still it is the body of light. With further loss of power, due to use of thoughts add new creation, the souls' power become weaker and weaker and at 8 celestial degrees the soul fall from heaven {light world} and takes gross body of five elements and come on this earth. The Supreme Soul also acquires body of five elements.

The corporeal world begins at 8 celestial degrees. It is here that the body of light now gets a cover of five elements. This world of five elements that marks the beginning of the cycle of birth and death. There was no death in the world of light as we did not have bodies of five elements. We were in the unmanifest form. Here we transfer from unmanifest to manifest, thus every souls which descended from Heaven is trapped in the cycle of birth and rebirth. Fresh souls are also created and the population goes on increasing. Here it is to be noted that the whole power which was originally one power as God Shiva that power has also descended to this world. At the end of the world drama, when all the souls have fallen to 0 celestial degrees, the divine knowledge emerges in the number One soul and he spreads that knowledge among his divine children.

Now let us analise what we have stated here above. God is initially in the form of light {with the might in the combined form} in the incorporeal form. Those who claim god to be in the incorporeal and of light e.g. Christians say God is Light , Brahma Kumaris say God is incorporeal. What is wrong? Nothing, they are absolutely correct. Similarly those who have seen God in the embodied form would say God is not incorporeal. Are they wrong? No. At this stage, if someone says God is not omnipresent. Will it be wrong? No. Since everything in this world tree was created originally from one power {"seed” so that power in the form of force is working in everything or in other words , we can say everything is made from one source, one force. What is wrong if Taking this view, someone claims God to be omniresent? Nothing wrong {as Arya Samaj claims}. Still another one, who has seen God {Supreme Soul} in the last stage at 0 celestial degree if he says, God is embodied. Is he wrong ? Certainly Not.

But what about those who are atheists or who do not believe in the existence of God e.g. Jains, Buddhist? They believe in the theory of action. Such persons has seen only embodied form of the Supreme Soul who acquire the original stage of incorporeal light in the reverse process of going up by the virtue of action. They seen Jiv becoming Shiva on the basis of action. Therefore if they say that only action is important, action is supreme because they have seen God in embodied form doing actions and acquiring the highest glory through purification of deeds. Thus their claim that only action is important, they are also right. Because they had seen a human being who acquired the status of Supreme Soul. Therefore their assertion that there is no God, cannot be said to be wrong. The Jains and Buddhist have laid emphasis on the drama part of knowledge. Therefore, they had denied existence of the God. And because of the souls are also created with mixing of energies therefore their claim that there is no soul, this is also true because they have laid emphasis on the process part or methodology involved in the formation of the soul. Since the drama moves continuously, if they claim that everything is temporary, are they wrong? No. there is nothing permanent like soul. From the angle of drama they are right.

Now in the reverse process of going up what happens the gross body of human beings get converted into light body and then that light body becomes incorporeal {Shiva} and merges take place . the souls which were created , get merged into their seeds and finally all are merged in One Supreme Soul. And again it becomes a pool of power in the supreme abode. Thus the unending drama of world repeats periodically.

Now once again the souls get merged in the absolute or the Supreme Soul to form one pool of power, we find Jiva becoming Shiva. At this stage, all the souls merged in Shiva are now part of one bigger light or drop becoming an ocean. therefore if someone says Shivohum, he is also not wrong. Similarly those who accept soul to be god or in another words, those who says soul is God they are also not wrong, because the soul has ultimately merged in one seed soul finally.

Now when we all descended along with the first pair to this world, all were like the first pair. So that is wrong if it is written in the Bible “God created man in his own image”? Genesis 1:27.

Similarly in the Koran it is written “ God created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of man and woman” 4:1.

Light and might were in the combined form originally. They separated , descended on this earth and they are the parents of the whole world. They are Adams and Eve and from them the whole world has been created. Thus we find no contradiction in the Bible or the Koran. Muslim also assert “ everything is not God but of God”. Is that view wrong? No . Not at all. It is ultimately God who is the creator and in whom is emerged everything at the end of the world drama. Therefore, everything belongs to him.

The terminology used in various religions about the first pair may be different but the essence is the same. The first pair is called Adam and Eve or Adi Dev or Adi Devi or Bhagwan Bhagwati or infinite light & might. But on thing is certain that pair is the creator. Therefore, in Indian mythology that pair is referred to as ”Tvamev matasch pita Tvamev”.

[fluffy bunny]

No religion has ever asserted the multiplicity of god”.

Actually, that is not true. There are plenty of polytheistic religions. And plenty of religions that think that their God is The God. The BKWSU included.

I think the problem is Sakshi, you think that you have a right to sit on a Guddhi here. Talk at us rather than to us. Preach "basic knowledge" according to your programme or agenda. And largley speak to us if we were idiots who had not heard any of this stuff before.

In BK terms, you are not "taking the pulse". Not listening to us.

Yes, as the other point out, we are testing your darna. Darna speaks louder than knowledge.

• • Do you feel a little insecure about answering our question? Or of the history between the BKs, PBKs and Vishnu Party?

Is that why you hide behind the pre-recorded copy and paste messages someone else wrote and come across as irritated or angry when we don't show you respect? Or allow things to go to your plan?

Look, Sakshi, we accept you as a person in your own right. We are interested in you, your experience, your group, your leader but you have to accept us as equals and come and meet us just as friends first.

• • Tell us something about your self and your own experience of the BKs, PBKs, and the BKWSU.

My advice to you is, climb down off that guddhi before you fall off it and leave a bad impression of the Vishnu Party. Just speak to us as if we were friends and ask Mr Patel to come forward and speak for himself as an equal. How would you expect members of the 108 to speak to each other?

So ... at least we have had one and a half answers;

• The Vishnu Party have less than 108 members and are only looking for 108 souls to follow ... someone/something/God Patel ...

It would be a lot easier and quicker for all us if you just answered our question first and directly, Sakshi.

Yes John, It may be quite natural for many of us to note that point however for others it may take a bit of education. I wonder if this little incident gives us a tiny insight into the different cultural mindset's that prevail in the forum? And whether these mindset's have any bearing at all on the manner in which Godly knowledge is transmitted from East to West?

You are too kind ABK ...

[worldpeace]

Dear Sakshi,

I offer to translate for you if communication is the problem. I am comfortable with Hindi and Tamil. If you are ready to mail me your answers to me in those languages, or in fact any vernacular language, I can get them translated.

Or I have a suggestion - can I compile a list of questions from XBKs and speak to Sakshi/ other Vishnu Party members on behalf of XBKs, or personally, and post back the answers, with the concerned people agreeing.

Anyway, I would personally would like to meet any of the Vishnu Party members some day.

(Disclaimer : XBKs are not an Organisation/group like BKs/PBKs/Vishu party, We are just a bunch of people who have one common link that we have been influenced by BKs or been BKs)

[neeru_spiritual]

Dear sister,

I visited your post named (gross body, light body) ...

I really founded interesting, i would like to know more about you and your knowledge. For your information, i have gone to BKs for 2 years and was satisfied with their concept but i was finding some thing missing in their knowledge ... After visiting through web http://www.discoveryofnewworld.com and found it different from others.

Thanks. Please do reply ...

Neeru

[kalpesh922831]

I read your site http://www.discoveryofnewworld.com and found something that you believe that Shiv is always in Sakar (corporeal), so can you tell me how?

And another question, i have found in your site new arrival and project, what is the topic of your new animated cd and what is it contain?

Is it the same as the BK Discovery CD? Or it is a marketing stretegy?

Om Shanti ...

[kalpesh922831]

This is my question to all the viewers is shiv baba is corporal or in corporal? Why does he have to take the help of any Chariot (male/female)?

We are the children of this shiv baba(if we are in Sakar (corporeal). Then he should be also in corporeal form. how can we meet him in nirakar form. I think this is very wrong theory that shiv has to enter in any one. i have saw on TV, when ever any soul enter in to the body of male/female, his / her behaviour becomes changed ...

Then why does Shiva baba have to do this things? Why does Shiva baba not coming in normal way and meet us normally as it is mentioned in the Murli? That sath ra he ge, sath khaye nge and ... many more.

What ever write here is found in BK and in PBK.

Please send your views.

Om Shanti

[joel]

I read your site http://www.discoveryofnewworld.com

Hi Kalpesh,

Welcome to the forum! The site is open to a wide membership. Some members here are PBKs, BKs, ex-BKs, family and friends of BKs, etc. The site has no connection to discoveryofnewworld. This site began as a place for ex-BKs to talk about their experiences and changes in their lives. We would like to hear about your experiences, if at some point you feel like writing about yourself. Till then sit back, browse, reflect and enjoy.

[arjun]

Dear Kalpesh Bhai,

Om Shanti. Welcome to the forum :D. Whether God Shiv is corporeal or incorporeal has been discussed in detail in the following link: How to remember ShivBaba.

If you have any other doubt that has not been discussed in that thread, then you are welcome to ask them here or in that thread.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[kalpesh922831]

thank you joel and arjun.

I search for God where ever I go but I get bad experience,

• in b.k - they always watch you - what you do, why you do it, who has given them this power.
  in p.b.k - they say Mama and Baba are not there, I cant meet them because they always escaping.
  in Vishnu Party - they give Godly knowledge but my mind is not ready to consider it as Shiv Baba

So what to do? Where have I to go? Where can I find God? This is a forum where we can talk to each other, so I am in search of truth and Shiva ...

But when ever I watch the TV I think, "why does Shiv Baba not give his proof to the people of the world, as they are in the world". If they provided knowledge beyond science, then people of the world would have to believe that this knowledge given by supreme power.

What is the reason for Baba to keep delaying?

[sakshi delhi]

Dear Kalpesh,

I understand your feelings about a person who fails in his goal but this is life. One thing is clear. Whatever happened here is the desire of the supreme Father, whether its negetive or positive.

But we have to first get the knowledge which was given by Baba. I do not mean the Murli, because the Murli is the stick of blind people only. But baba gives the knowledge of divya chhaksu (third eye) and you do not require the stick. In the record of Murli, either in the BKs or PBKs, we never are never given the knowledge of how the world is created, how we became humans from deities, how the soul is created, from where they come and how we lost our paramtatwa?

Where is the power that run the three bodies? What is the reason of miracles? None of these points are covered by the Murlis ... so what do you think of the Murlis, when these points are not covered, and will we ever get answer from Murli? Our Baba gives knowledge about these topics but no one is ready to hear and be alive. But that's OK, when ever people become bored with Murlis, and not getting the way of heaven, then they will have to come ...

So please, you are free. You can go every where but always try to get the supreme knowledge because, in my opinion, this will is not given in the Murli ...

Param shanti, sakshi

[john]

So please, you are free you can go every where, but always try to get the supreme knowledge because this will not given in Murli ...

So, who is the author of the Murli?

[kalpesh922831]

hi,
this is my exprience as i go on different philosophy and found this thing. Please if you understand properly then, you have to keep in mind that our veda and sastra are right on his place ... Today we found that, we always get news from t.v or news paper, some miracle happened ... example : one person who can not see any thing and yet rides a bike all over the city ... OK

One another example : a serial in National Georaphic channel : a women go to the tantric (wrong doer) and said please kill my husbend and after some time her husband killed without any injury. How this happened? I am not made but i want to saw you that do you awere of this things? As per my knowledge ther are so many ghosts on the earth and do this things either good or bad.

So first of all we have to understand that who is this soul and from where they coming and up to when they will do? Can we stop them or give freedom them? Do you have power or have knowledge to remove them from the earth ? Or is there any process mention in Murli ? If any of our members are afraid of this soul then who will save us? Have you medition power?

Do you have the knowledge of three bodies?

[arjun]

in p.b.k - they say Mama and Baba are not there, I cant meet them because they always askeping ...

Could you kindly make yourself more clear? I could not understand what you wish to say.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[kalpesh922831]

Hello,

i know people of this foram do not interested in my topic but this is my efforts. If you do not like, i will not send you mail, i have got this knowledge from ved and puran. Today i have seen on IndiaTV news that a Hanuman statues was crying. I want to talk about this matter and also regarding the miracles happening in India. As you know, in India every day we find some miracle. The question is, who did it? Why they do it? And what is the intention of of them?

• 1) My answer is that, first of all you have to understand that 33 crore Devi-Devtam became human being like you and me. There are no Gods on the earth to save us. So there is no protection given by God to his temple, his murti and his devotee etc ... It means there are no gods in the temples. If they are in the temples, then how can the temples be looted by anyone?
  
  2) You can see in history that Somnath Temple was looted by Muhammad Ghazni 17 times. At that time, no god saved his temple even once. Ramji Mandiar broken in Ayodhya. No god come to save it. In Akshrdham Mandir (Gandhinagar) and Ragunath Mandir, do you know that what was happend? Every day we read in the newspapers that people died accidents when they were returning from temple x, y or z. So there is no duty of God to save his devotees and send back home safely.
  
  3) Let us come back to the topic, why did the statue of Hanumanji cry? There must be some good soul who makes this miracle happen to make popular Hanuman, and this is not only in the Hindu religion but also in Islam or Christianity. As you know in Christianity many have seem the same type of miracles .. and Ganesh "drinking milk".
  
  4) If you believe that this miracle is done by God, then what is the reason behind that? God has no other work to do? God cannot see the state of world? Why does God not save the temples?
  
  In all religions, there are some good and bad souls (who have left the body). You can say ghosts who are trying to save their religion. If some miracle happens in Hinduism then Islamic souls also do the same, so too Christian soul, so too Jain souls ...
  
  5) Please ask, if God is one and only in the Hindu religion, then why do we have reason to believe that these miracles are done by God? But you can see that in all religion, you find the same phenomena. So that means there are so many gods on the earth but no one is ready to save us.
  
  6) As you know, a person who is blind is riding a bike through out the cities of India, how can this happened? I have told you there is some soul who helps this person to ride the bike. There are so many example we have to discuss
  
  7) Tantrik priests are connection to so many spirits good or bad. With their assistance, they are doing many things. And tantriks will give a guarantee of 100% or 151%. Whenever we have no answer, we say this is superstition. But it is not right. I have good knowledge in spiritual matter and astrology, i have the answers to all of your question.

Please give chance to solve the puzzles of world. I have questions for you if you think that astrology is wrong?

• a)Why are the 7 days named the same as the grahs (planets)?
  b) Are our Vedic sastras right or wrong?
  c)Is God on earth or not ?

I have the answers to all these questions, if you want to know, I can send you the answer by email.

[john]

Miracles - Some souls have the power to manipulate matter in a way not yet understood by science, what's the big deal?

People killed in accident when they were return from the temple x, y and z. so there is no duty of god to save his devotees and send back safe at home ?

What makes you think God has the power, ability, time or will to go around saving everyone from incidents?