To speak out or not to speak out, that is the question

[fluffy bunny]

Gosh, I have witnessed so many wrongdoings! Yet, I feel hindered because of my love for some that are still in, as they may be affected by my decision to speak out.

What to do!!!

Its a higher form of love to speak out and document it all ...

You love a kid ... you know there is abuse going on within the family and the parents are very controlling ... they are using those kids to attract more kids ... what do you do? You speak out.

Tell the truth, shame the devil. As long as you stick to the right side of public concern and not act out of a sense of vindictiveness, you will have no problems with your conscience.

I, personally, do not believe that the BKWSU can reform. I, personally, think that all they can do from now on in is add layer and layer of deceit to hide what they have done. I think that by "the BKWSU" I do not mean the rank and file BKs but the leadership. If such things had happened in an ordinary NGO or charity that have happened within the BKWSU, heads would have rolled.

What needs to happen is that self-elect leadership needs to stand down and all the layers of fluff be stripped away. Is that going to happen? No way. So just pre-warn and pre-arm any newcomers that might be considering going instead. Look after the next generation.

[mr green]

Always speak out, only the truth can help others.

Be prepared to take the flak, but speak out ... it is hard at first, but it gets easier and it is the right thing to do.

[abrahma kumar]

Thank you souls as this is my dilemna as well ...

And even after I posted those few words I came across these words posted elsewhere by di on another topic and just had to include them:

I understand exactly the position you are in. It was only through me pushing the issue that brought us to this point. If I had ignored my instincts and listened to "you're being a drama queen" it would have been too late and we would have been lost. I wish you love and all the best. I hope my story gives you strength and it can work. It is so hard to go into battle ... no battle's outcome is known, but I still think a loss is preferable to a pretence and being with a shell of a person because that in itself will tear a person apart and cannot work if you want something different

Aren't those words so very apt to what we are talking here?

Scenes in the drama such as this really reassure me that everything's going to be alright.

Thanks once again to all of you.

[alladin]

Hi,

I am an old BK, I heard about the Forum recently and started to take a lot of benefit by reading the messages people exchange openly in it showing good intents and maturity. A real blessing from God, see how he uses modern facilities to grant his children freedom of expression?

So I will see all of you again soon in this space, inshallah! I think the conditioning to wash the family's dirty laundry in a hiding place and the subtle and practical punisment for speaking out, are such to stop many BKs from participating to this Forum and generate a mistrust in it. But I trust my heart, and this week, browsing through the forum, left me such a sense of wellness and lightness, that it even influenced my dreams, as if a burden or a curtain had been lifted. It's good to share and clarify things.

Many of us tried to do it first with Seniors and centers-in-charge to start with. How many where satisfied with the answers and felt good after doing that? How many times speaking the truth or posing questions was used against us in various ways? Ultimately, in order not to be considered weak (not able to deal with sanskars and situations we were witnessing and did not sound right) or trouble makers, we shut our mouths.

Repression is very dangerous, even from a health point of view. I am sure the boat of truth will not sink. In the meantime, let's enjoy the rocking and paddling together to the other shore, letting our voices out, gradually becoming fearless, even of the curse of gurus!

[john]

It is our duty to speak out and get the truth revealed.

Our duty to the world.

[arjun]

But I trust my heart, and this week, browsing through the forum, left me such a sense of wellness and lightness, that it even influenced my dreams, as if a burden or a curtain had been lifted. It's good to share and clarify things.

Dear brother,

Om Shanti and welcome to the forum. It is so refreshing to see more and more BKs joining the forum and airing their views. The comments of the BKs who have joined recently are in stark contrast to the views aired by a sweet BK brother some time ago. I hope that with the increased participation of the BKs on this forum, the sweet brother would return to the forum and contribute his 'might' too.

* If you are using an ambiguous term such as "Baba" or "Father" that could refer to more than one individual, please clarify who it is you mean, e.g. Shiva [ through Veerendra Dev Dixit or Veerendra Dev Dixit ], Brahma [ Dada Lekhraj or Dada Lekhraj ], Mama [ BK Saraswati ]. Use actual names rather than titles where possible.

PBKs try to quote the name of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit while referring to ShivBaba's versions. But in the thread 'extracts of ShivBaba's Murlis' in the PBK Section, we cannot insert lokik names in the Murlis. So you would have to manage with the indirect names.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[arjun]

I think the conditioning to wash the family's dirty laundry in a hiding place and the subtle and practical punisment for speaking out, are such to stop many BKs from participating to this Forum and generate a mistrust in it. But I trust my heart, and this week, browsing through the forum, left me such a sense of wellness and lightness, that it even influenced my dreams, as if a burden or a curtain had been lifted. It's good to share and clarify things.

Many of us tried to do it first with Seniors and centers-in-charge to start with. How many where satisfied with the answers and felt good after doing that? How many times speaking the truth or posing questions was used against us in various ways? Ultimately, in order not to be considered weak (not able to deal with sanskars and situations we were witnessing and did not sound right) or trouble makers, we shut our mouths.

The feelings that you have expressed in your post match with the words of ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) in the clarification Murli quoted below:

Extracts of ShivBaba’s Murli [via Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit ] – as narrated to the PBKs

VCD No.585, Audio Cassette No.1071, dated 31.12.06, Adhyatmik Krishi Farm,

Clarification of Murli dated 25.9.98

Ref. No.VCD-585-Part-III-Eng.

... in this Yagya, the foreign souls which had entered, took the (reins of) power of the Yagya in their hands after the departure of Mama-Baba and the strong followers of Brahma-like souls, who were unshakeable on the basis of sentiments (bhaavnaa), are present here and there, somewhere or the other in the form of vijaymala (rosary of victory) even today. When the time comes, they would emerge. They possess the power of purity. Just as Brahma and Saraswati possessed the power of purity, similarly they are pakka Brahmaachaari (firm followers of Brahma), but the knowledge is not contained in their intellect.

From one angle, just as there are virgins (Kumaris) in a family, who follow the mother and there are boys (Kumars) who follow the Father. Similar thing happened in this world of Brahmins also. The souls, which possess the nature and sanskars of virgins and the firm true sentimental (pakki sachhi bhaavnaavaadi) souls, who are Brahmaachaari, i.e. followers of Brahma, who are Brahmins, those who imbibe purity, whether they are in male costume or in the female costume, but are tolerating in the Yagya even today. One can find sacrificing nature (tyaag) in them. They do not desire power (satta). They do not desire respect & position (maan-martabaa). They are concerned with Godly service and the success that they display (i.e. achieve) in service cannot be displayed by those who hold the reins of power. Although they may collect lakhs and crores of amounts and waste it in organizing large programmes but they cannot display that much result. What kind of a result? The results of making the heirs emerge.

The souls of heir quality, the true Brahmaachaari children in the Yagya have been emerging since the beginning. They have not received the essence (tant) of knowledge yet and even if they have received it, they are bound in the bondages of tradition (paramparaa). What? Our Brahmin family should not get defamed. We would not allow the defamation (badnaami) of our family, our moon dynasty (chandravansh), but it does not strike their intellect that - those souls, who devour souls like Brahma & Saraswati, when they would not leave them also, then will they leave them (i.e. the followers of Brahma)? That is why it has been said in the Murli - such time would also come in the end that when they get angry they would remove the clothes, make them naked and throw them out. It would not strike their intellect that - what kind of good service they (i.e. the souls which are thrown out) have done. It has to happen.
The flame of destruction (vinaash-jwala) emerged from the Rudra Yagya Kund. When did it emerge? It emerges when the true Brahmaachaaris (followers of Brahma) are insulted, when they get the push (dhakka).

Regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

[alladin]

There's a very frightening word Baba uses in Murli to describe those who turn their back on him and the path: "TRAITORS". Arjunbhai, is it really that strong, in Hindi?

Anyway, I am on this topic because I was thinking about how honesty doesn't pay in the BK organization. Many of us regretted later for being outspoken and sincere with SS or teachers, or friends who squeal. An authentic person can easily turn into a "traitor", someone who doesn't want to play the game of covering parmat and mistakes.

So, the Forum is the first and wonderful chance to let it all out, and I apologize for being sarcastic or sharp at times. Maybe what keeps many BKs off the Forum, is in fact the fear of being labelled as "Traitors". We've been told to tell SS everything. Consequences and results? I'd rather be as honest as possible with myself and Baba, adhere to his original teaching.

Love and Bye to all, maybe I 'll have no PC for a couple of days!

[sparkal]

I, personally, feel that this forum will have emerged at exactly the right moment. Well, obviously, but you know what I mean. Speak from your heart with the right motives and it may turn out to be service that you are doing by speaking out. Perhaps it is time to speak out. Perhaps it is time for the BKs to feel the sea water around their ankles as another sand wall disintegrates.

The conscience? Traitors? You know, the biggest traitors are those who scuttle around knowing that they could have approached things differently. I don't want anyone going around feeling this way perhaps we all feel that way to some degree. Waste thoughts. The Inner circle, and possibly most BKs, knew this was coming. They have been bracing themselves for it. What they expect next is any ones guess. Of course, we should be careful not to blame the janitor for the way the school is run.

So, HUMILITY. Am I sinning by writing here? Or is this true humility by giving honest and open feedback so that others may benefit, even if it ruffles feathers. Feathers will be ruffled, that's for sure, if we are to get the ship into safer seas. I think we've got Captain Pugwash at the helm or something.

The BKs are dictated to, to some degree, by governmental and world ways. We can speak out as much as it is polite to do so in worldly terms, but "don't do anything new". Well, the world is changing and we are creating a transparent, honest society and so where better a place to start than here on the web where many can be reached. An opportunity for the BKs and others to show how open and transparent they are.

[jannisder]

I am so very proud of all of you to now have the guts to finally come forward and speak openly about your journey as a BK PBK or exit's. It is not a sin to be honest, what you do is helping others and that makes you all the REAL ANGELS ... ever thought about that?

A God who is love, shall never tell that you are weak when you feel, or to leave your family and friends; to shut out everyBODY that loves you more than your God, to lock out any feelings who were giving you to love, and to hold. To hurt even what will make you a more loving person for you will understand other better and be able to help in times of pain and sorrow, you became a comforter and strong.

Nothing makes you weak, maybe for a little while after a heartbreaking period that we all experience in life but you always get back on your feet being able to see what happened and you will be a winner!

BK is a dangerous mix of the good psychology basics some of us have learned in school, which makes it all seem so real, but the dangerous part are the extensions with complete nonsense printed in heads of people who are lost at some point. Now that is a sin!! Abuse!! And the rape of a healthy mind.

We have the freedom of speech, so speak ... if you don't want to be known by the world send me a PM and i shall post it for you with your permission so the world can learn, and you hear your real answers.

Emancipation from error is the condition of real knowledge." - Henri Frederic Ameil (1849)

Love, Jan.

[mr green]

I do not seem to have entered the special level of hell that is reserved for those that turn their back on the Father. I do not believe for one moment that if god exists that he considers I have 'divorced' him, or that I am a traitor.

If God does believe this, then I don't need him.

[fluffy bunny]

I do not believe for one moment that if god exists that he considers I have 'divorced' him, or that I am a traitor.

Wasn't it Siser Jayanti of London BKWSU that called you a traitor ... or was it just an accusation of betrayal ... when you told her that her heard all the false allegation she was making about you to another BK because you were listening on the phone when she was talking about you to another BK?

Betrayal ... traitor ... those are all incredibly harsh, manipulative words.

[arjun]

There's a very frightening word Baba uses in Murli to describe those who turn their back on him and the path: "TRAITORS". Arjunbhai, is it really that strong, in Hindi?

As far as I know ShivBaba (through Brahma Baba) has mentioned the word 'traitors' for those who leave the path of knowledge and indulge in sex-lust, or other vices, and thus bring bad name to the path of knowledge that ShivBaba has started. But I don't think that word has been used for those who speak out the truth or complain about the shortcomings/weaknesses to Baba. If I find any Murli point, I would definitely quote it.

In Hindi, the word used for 'traitors' is 'vishwaasghaati', which has not been used in the Sakar Murlis narrated by Shiv through Brahma Baba, but I think it has been used in the clarification Murlis narrated by Shiv through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit.

But whatever the meaning, this word cannot be used by any BK or PBK to describe or address any other soul because ShivBaba (either through Brahma Baba or Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has not used this word to pinpoint anyone but has used it in general terms. I have not been with Brahma Baba in this birth but I have seen practically how ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has treated without any hatred all those who left him, abused him, threatened him, and/or returned.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[adikarisoul]

I do not believe for one moment that if god exists that he considers I have 'divorced' him, or that I am a traitor. If God does believe this, then I don't need him.

God can see what's in your heart ... and we can feel it through your words. BK Jayanti unfortunately (for her) cannot ... Trust your goodness and your sincere motivations and ... Keep going. The boat of truth may shake but will never sink!! I am sure that Dilaram (the Conforter of hearts ) is still with you ... and with all of us.

Take care,
Adikarisoul

[fluffy bunny]

In Hindi, the word used for 'traitors' is 'vishwaasghaati', which has not been used in the Sakar Murlis narrated by Shiv through Brahma Baba, but I think it has been used in the clarification Murlis narrated by Shiv through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit.

Point of order ... which proves a) the benefit of having an instantly searchable database of Murlis at hand and, b) why the BKWSU want to suppress one;

Sakar Murli 2003/01/23 Revised

• "If you become a traitor, there is severe punishment."

I do not know what the original Hindi was but perhaps you have an original copy of this Murli. I should think that the word "traitor" has a specific meaning and that when it was said, it was being directed at a specific soul in the mandir. My guess is that any god would look first at the heart and not the actions of the body BUT the quotation is pretty explicit.

"If someone falls, he becomes absolutely impure. If a soul is not able to follow Shrimat, Maya gets hold of that soul by the nose and throws him into the gutter. To oppose BapDada after belonging to Him means to become a traitor. This is why Baba says: Be cautious at every step. Maya’s time is now coming to and end, so she makes many of you fall. Therefore, children, remain very alert. The road is a little long but the status is very great. If you become a traitor, there is severe punishment."

"When Dharamraj Baba punishes souls, they cry out in distress. That then becomes fixed for every cycle. Maya is very powerful. If there is even a little disregard for Baba, you die. It is said that someone who defames the Satguru cannot reach the destination. Some perform wrong actions under the influence of lust or anger, and cause defamation of Baba and so they experience punishment. Since there is multimillionfold income in every step, there is also multimillionfold loss".