False Gita, and its effect

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Re: False Gita, and its effect

Post by mbbhat »

# Post No. 133a)Interpretation of VERY IMPORTANT/BASIC Gita verse 9-11 goes wrong due to False Gita:-

591)Gita verse 09-11 is very important/critical. Let us see how lowkik Gita preachers interpret this verse. A sample (from the first link) is reproduced below.
"Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be.- Gita 09-11. -a) https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/9/11/

....The Personality of Godhead, who conducts the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the complete cosmic manifestation, cannot be a human being. Yet there are many foolish men who consider Kṛṣṇa to be merely a powerful man and nothing more.

....In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller; there are many controllers undoubtedly, both in the material and spiritual world, but Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller (īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ), and His body is sac-cid-ānanda, nonmaterial.

Material bodies cannot perform the wonderful acts described in previous verses. His body is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge.

Although He is not a common man, the foolish deride Him and consider Him to be a man. His body is called here mānuṣīm because He is acting just like a man, a friend of Arjuna’s, a politician involved in the Battle of Kurukṣetra.

In so many ways He is acting just like an ordinary man, but actually His body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha – eternal bliss and knowledge absolute.

This is confirmed in the Vedic language also. Sac-cid-ānanda-rūpāya kṛṣṇāya: “I offer my obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, who is the eternal blissful form of knowledge.” (Gopāla-tāpanī Upaniṣad 1.1) There are other descriptions in the Vedic language also. Tam ekaṁ govindam: “You are Govinda, the pleasure of the senses and the cows.” Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraham: “And Your form is transcendental, full of knowledge, bliss and eternality.” (Gopāla-tāpanī Upaniṣad 1.38)


Despite the transcendental qualities of Lord Kṛṣṇa’s body, its full bliss and knowledge, there are many so-called scholars and commentators of Bhagavad-gītā who deride Kṛṣṇa as an ordinary man. The scholar may be born an extraordinary man due to his previous good work, but this conception of Śrī Kṛṣṇa is due to a poor fund of knowledge. Therefore he is called mūḍha, for only foolish persons consider Kṛṣṇa to be an ordinary human being.

The foolish consider Kṛṣṇa an ordinary human being because they do not know the confidential activities of the Supreme Lord and His different energies. They do not know that Kṛṣṇa’s body is a symbol of complete knowledge and bliss, that He is the proprietor of everything that be and that He can award liberation to anyone. Because they do not know that Kṛṣṇa has so many transcendental qualifications, they deride Him.
Nor do they know that the appearance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in this material world is a manifestation of His internal energy.

He is the master of the material energy. As has been explained in several places (Mama māyā duratyayā), He claims that the material energy, although very powerful, is under His control, and whoever surrenders unto Him can get out of the control of this material energy.

If a soul surrendered to Kṛṣṇa can get out of the influence of material energy, then how can the Supreme Lord, who conducts the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the whole cosmic nature, have a material body like us? So this conception of Kṛṣṇa is complete foolishness. Foolish persons, however, cannot conceive that the Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, appearing just like an ordinary man, can be the controller of all the atoms and of the gigantic manifestation of the universal form. The biggest and the minutest are beyond their conception, so they cannot imagine that a form like that of a human being can simultaneously control the infinite and the minute. Actually, although He is controlling the infinite and the finite, He is apart from all this manifestation. It is clearly stated concerning His yogam aiśvaram, His inconceivable transcendental energy, that He can control the infinite and the finite simultaneously and that He can remain aloof from them. Although the foolish cannot imagine how Kṛṣṇa, who appears just like a human being, can control the infinite and the finite, those who are pure devotees accept this, for they know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore they completely surrender unto Him and engage in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotional service of the Lord.


There are many controversies between the impersonalists and the personalists about the Lord’s appearance as a human being. But if we consult Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the authoritative texts for understanding the science of Kṛṣṇa, then we can understand that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is not an ordinary man, although He appeared on this earth as an ordinary human. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, First Chapter, when the sages headed by Śaunaka inquired about the activities of Kṛṣṇa, they said:
kṛtavān kila karmāṇi
saha rāmeṇa keśavaḥ
ati-martyāni bhagavān
gūḍhaḥ kapaṭa-māṇuṣaḥ
“Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, along with Balarāma, played like a human being, and so masked He performed many superhuman acts.” (Bhāg. 1.1.20) The Lord’s appearance as a man bewilders the foolish. No human being could perform the wonderful acts that Kṛṣṇa performed while He was present on this earth. When Kṛṣṇa appeared before His Father and mother, Vasudeva and Devakī, He appeared with four hands, but after the prayers of the parents He transformed Himself into an ordinary child. As stated in the Bhāgavatam (10.3.46), babhūva prākṛtaḥ śiśuḥ: He became just like an ordinary child, an ordinary human being. Now, here again it is indicated that the Lord’s appearance as an ordinary human being is one of the features of His transcendental body. In the Eleventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated that Arjuna prayed to see Kṛṣṇa’s form of four hands (tenaiva rūpeṇa catur-bhujena). After revealing this form, Kṛṣṇa, when petitioned by Arjuna, again assumed His original humanlike form (mānuṣaṁ rūpam). These different features of the Supreme Lord are certainly not those of an ordinary human being.
Some of those who deride Kṛṣṇa and who are infected with the Māyāvādī philosophy quote the following verse from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (3.29.21) to prove that Kṛṣṇa is just an ordinary man. Ahaṁ sarveṣu bhūteṣu bhūtātmāvasthitaḥ sadā: “The Supreme is present in every living entity.” We should better take note of this particular verse from the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas like Jīva Gosvāmī and Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura instead of following the interpretation of unauthorized persons who deride Kṛṣṇa. Jīva Gosvāmī, commenting on this verse, says that Kṛṣṇa, in His plenary expansion as Paramātmā, is situated in the moving and the nonmoving entities as the Supersoul, so any neophyte devotee who simply gives his attention to the arcā-mūrti, the form of the Supreme Lord in the temple, and does not respect other living entities is uselessly worshiping the form of the Lord in the temple. There are three kinds of devotees of the Lord, and the neophyte is in the lowest stage. The neophyte devotee gives more attention to the Deity in the temple than to other devotees, so Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura warns that this sort of mentality should be corrected. A devotee should see that because Kṛṣṇa is present in everyone’s heart as Paramātmā, every body is the embodiment or the temple of the Supreme Lord; so as one offers respect to the temple of the Lord, he should similarly properly respect each and every body in which the Paramātmā dwells. Everyone should therefore be given proper respect and should not be neglected.


There are also many impersonalists who deride temple worship. They say that since God is everywhere, why should one restrict himself to temple worship? But if God is everywhere, is He not in the temple or in the Deity? Although the personalist and the impersonalist will fight with one another perpetually, a perfect devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness knows that although Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality, He is all-pervading, as confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Although His personal abode is Goloka Vṛndāvana and He is always staying there, by His different manifestations of energy and by His plenary expansion He is present everywhere in all parts of the material and spiritual creation.
592)Now, let us see the effects.

---Gita preachers ended up in praising of just physical body of Sri Krishna only. That is- praising of body/mortal instead of soul/eternal. Eternal/Point form of both human soul as well as Supreme Soul- totally got ignored/forgotten.
---Inadvertently, Sri Krishna's level is brought down from human deity to mere human level. [Actually Brahma is the real Chariot of God, who is Iron Aged impure human being, hence people deride him. But, when Sri Krishna got placed in the seat of God, even Sri Krishna's level inadvertently got down to mere human being at least in some aspects.]

---Gita preachers considered just physical body of Krishna itself for all the greatness of God. They just equated Sri Krishna's physical body to embodiment of knowledge, bliss, etc. [In fact, bliss, knowledge, etc. are related to mind and intellects which are part of soul].

--In fact, the Gita preachers ended up in praising/placing body(mortal) at a higher place than soul (eternal).
---The only holy/spiritual scripture Gita came down to human level and confused state.
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Re: False Gita, and its effect

Post by mbbhat »

# Post No. 134)Wrong interpretation results in VIOLATION of ABSOLUTE TRUTH, and basic definition of GOD as well:-

593)This matter is indirectly explained in the last and previous posts. Adding more points here.

594)Let's take the second interpretation of the same verse - i.e.- https://www.holy-bhagavad-Gita.org/chapter/9/verse/11
https://www.holy-bhagavad-Gita.org/chapter/9/verse/11

Good teachers occasionally use strong words to jostle their students out of the complacence of shallow thinking, into a deeper state of thoughtfulness. Here, Shree Krishna uses the word mūḍha, which means “dim-witted,” to describe those who deny the divinity of His personal form.

Those who say that God is only formless and cannot manifest in a personal form, contradict the definition of God as being all-mighty and all-powerful. The Supreme Lord has created this entire world full of forms, shapes, and colors. If He can do such an amazing feat of creating myriad forms in the world, can He not create a form for Himself? Or is it that God says, “I do not have the power to manifest in a personal form, and hence I am only formless light.” To say that He cannot possess a personal form makes Him incomplete.

We tiny souls also possess forms. If one holds that God cannot possess a form, then the corollary is that He has even less power than us a human beings. For God to be perfect and complete, He must have both attributes to His personality—a personal aspect and a formless aspect....
595)The above interpretation violates the original definition of "God is Truth (UNCHANGING)". Emotionally the above interpretation seems correct at some places, but intellectually it goes totally wrong. It brings down level of God to a very low state to the material level. Like when heated, water form turns into vapour, when cooled, it turns into ice, etc. So- to say- point form of God can assume any other form is a great blunder.

---Take case of a human being, the physical form remains same throughout during that birth = A human soul wears same body throughout the birth (body may get old, but remains same). Of course, the person can change his dress at any time, but not the body (during a particular birth). That is- the one that gets changed (the dress) definitely has less value.

---Take example of a rich person. A rich person can buy or sell or posses any/many things. But, the value of those things are much less than his own value. Even here, his physical body form (as well as the internal soul form) remains same while doing these activities.

---Take example of a very powerful person, King. His value is higher than the throne or the palace. So- to praise the throne or palace more than the King himself would be ignorance. Even here, whatever may be the activities of a Kind, his internal soul form as well as the body remains same throughout the period.

---So- if Gita preachers say- eternal form of God can take any form, they are doing two great blunders. First is- they bring down level of God to material/dress. Second they are violating the definition of God as TRUTH/UNCHANGING/CONSTANT all the time.

In fact, God is all powerful, means point form of God can enter any body at any time. It does not means that God will lose his form to the dress/body. Hence to praise any body/dress, whether of number one human deity Krishna also brings down the eternal level of God.

More on this is said in Post No. 109/110 - here - viewtopic.php?p=57544&hilit=rice&sid=fa ... a6f#p57544

Continuation of - https://www.holy-bhagavad-Gita.org/chapter/9/verse/11

The Vedic scriptures state:

apaśhyaṁ gopāṁ anipadyamānamā
(Ṛig Veda 1.22.164 sūkta 31)

“I had the vision of God as a boy who is never annihilated, and who appeared in a family of cowherds.”

dwibhūjaṁ mauna mudrāḍhyaṁ vana mālinamīśhwaram
(Gopāl Tāpani Upaniṣhad 1.13)

“The Lord, wearing a garland of forest flowers, plays His flute, enchantingly forming the mauna mudrā with His hands.”

gūḍhaṁ paraṁ brahma manuṣhya-liṅgam
(Bhagavatam 7.15.75)

“The deepest knowledge is that God accepts a human-like form.”

yatrāvatīrṇo bhagavān paramātmā narākṛitiḥ
(Bhagavatam 9.23.20)

“At that time, the Supreme Lord, who possesses all opulences, descended in a human-like form.”

īśhwaraḥ paramaḥ kṛiṣhṇaḥ sachchidānanda vigrahaḥ
anādirādir govindaḥ sarvakāraṇa kāraṇam
(Brahma Samhitā 5.1)

In this verse, Brahma prays to Shree Krishna, “I worship Lord Krishna whose form is eternal, all-knowing, and blissful. He is without beginning and end, and is the cause of all causes.”

However, in regard to the personal form of God, we must keep in mind that it is a divine form, which means it is devoid of all the defects found in material forms. The form of God is sat-chit-ānand—it is eternal, full of knowledge, and constituted of divine bliss.

asyāpi deva vapuṣho mad-anugrahasya
svechchhā-mayasya na tu bhūta-mayasya ko ’pi
(Bhagavatam 10.14.2)

In this verse, Lord Brahma prays to Shree Krishna, “O Lord, Your body is not made of pañch mahābhūta (the five great elements); it is divine And You have descended in this form by Your own free will, to bestow Your grace upon souls like myself.”

In chapter four of the Bhagavad Gita, Shree Krishna stated: “Although I am unborn, the Lord of all living entities, and have an imperishable nature, yet I appear in this world by virtue of Yogmaya, my divine power.” (4.6) This means that not only does God possess a form, but He also descends in the world as an Avatar.

Since we souls have been taking births in the world from time immemorial, it is plausible that we were present in the human form on the earth when a previous descension of God was present on the earth. It is even possible that we saw the descension. However, the limitation was that God’s form was divine and we possessed material eyes. So when we saw Him with our eyes, we were unable to recognize the divinity of His personality.

The divine nature of God’s form is such that His divinity is perceived by each person only to the extent of his or her spiritual power. When those who are influenced by sattva guṇa see Him, they think, “Shree Krishna is a special person. He is very competent but is definitely not God.” When those under the spell of rajo guṇa see Him, they say, “There is nothing special in Him. He is very much like us.” When those dominated by tamo guṇa see Him, they think, “He is egotistic and characterless, much worse than us.” It is only the God-realized saints who can recognize Him as God, since they have received divine vision by His grace. And so, Shree Krishna says that the unaware materially conditioned souls do not know Him when He takes an avatar in the world.
596)Here- we can see the Gita preacher/s saying- "Body of Krishna is not made of five elements".
Any OVERCONFIDENCE or OVER-VALUING is wrong. Similarly praising any body to the level of soul or above it will only lead to ignorance/degradation.
[Overconfidence indirectly indicates under-confidence. Similarly, Overvaluation will lead to devaluation. If Hindus have declared Sri Krishna as only deities, other religions would not have got so much hatred on Hinduism. Main policy of major religions Islam and Christianity is- WORSHIP ONLY ONE GOD BUT NONE. When Hindus placed corporeal deity at the seat of God, these religions thought it is a great violation of religion and started attacking Hindus and their temples, etc. etc.].

[597)Suppose say- if the Gita preachers say- "Point/Eternal/Real form of God entered in physical body of someone else (say- that of Sri Krishna) and spoke Gita knowledge", that would have been at least some value, since form/status of of God remains same. But, unfortunately, the preachers ended up in equating physical form/body of Sri Krishna itself to the level of God.

598)Definitely, body of Sri Krishna is special, it is body of deity, and divine, that is - it is made of pure elements/nature. It is flawless body. It does not get sweat like Iron Aged world people, it does not emit bad smell like Iron Aged human body. But, it is perishable and material only. It has such a radiation that one cannot get influenced by vices when seeing that body. ]

599)On one hand, Gita preachers say- body of Sri Krishna is not made of five elements, but on the other hand, they say- Sri Krishna's body got penetrated by a hunter's arrow and that was end of Sri Krishna's life! Totally contradicting, is it not?

600)So- these (mis)interpretations violate basic definition of God itself. Because form of God can never change. That is- it violates the absolute truth - "God is incorporeal".
It also violates the absolute truth- "Status of Soul is higher than soul".
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Re: False Gita, and its effect

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# Post No. 135)The major religions too violate Absolute Truth:-

601)Other religions also failed in describing/defining God.

602)For example, according to Bible and Quran, God created Universe to glorify Himself, worship Himself and to test human beings and to give gift to human beings. One can do google search. Now, if we see the causes, major causes clearly indicate God as selfish. In their prayer, fear of God takes first place. Then comes natural love, respect to God, and bliss, etc.

603)According to these religions, after the creation God tests them and then their future fate (after the life) is determined. For the test to begin, the children should reach the age of accountability. Now-
---God may create even handicapped children and test!
--Some children die before the age of accountability. So- their test is not possible. Their fate is determined without test. So- God's test itself is biased, is it not?
[Both the religions suggest a place of eternal rest or reward for those who die before reaching an age of accountability/understanding].

604)God produces weak products?
According to these religions, God is a like a machine that triggers for production/creation of billions of people and creatures in this Universe.
Normally, a good factory first tests its products and then sends/releases to the market after Quality Check is passed.
But, here God/Allah creates/sends products directly to the market/world and then puts them for test. He may produce weak, handicapped babies as well. That is not wrong according to these religions!
A factory is considered as good if most of its products pass Quality test. But, here, most of the products are failure and they get title kafir and would be sent to eternal hell. So- most of the Allah's product are of weak quality.

605)God creates not only Satan but also (eternal) hell?
A good factory produces good products. Main aim is not to produce even pollution.
But, here they believe God creates eternal hell as well as God's own creation turned into Satan.
God even though knowing in advance that majority of his creation would become failure, still got ready for creation? And God created Hell, that too eternal hell for them?

606)God or Allah never gets satisfied?
For so many centuries God has been creating billions of babies and creatures kept on testing. Still God's test is not completed? He is still creating?!
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Re: False Gita, and its effect

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# Post No. 136)Few more examples of violation of Absolute Truth:-

607)Hinduism, it is shown that- God gives boons even to asuras/demons- Eg- Brahma and Shankar/Shiva gives boons to asuras/evil/demons like- Mahishaasur, Shambh, Nishumbh, etc for their tapasyaa/meditation. These asuras are shown as doing rigorous tapasyaa/meditation of Gods (usually Shiva and Brahma). Then the Gods became satisfied and gave them boons. Then these asuras committed lot of crimes in earth, heaven, too. Even in heaven, there is risk of sudden attack of these asuras.

Now- the questions arise-
---Can/Will God give boons to even evil personalities like asuras?
---Can the asuras(such VERY HIGH level of evil personalities) have love, affection towards God?
---Can these asuras develop such a deep concentration to do tapasyaa/meditation?

608)In Islam, killing of non-believers is permitted. Forcible conversion, putting heavy tax, etc. are also permitted.

609)According to Islam and Christianity- All the nonbelievers will go to eternal hell even if they are very good human beings. (Limited) Faith is has more importance than character in these religions. [Even though Islam and Christianity believe in incorporeal form of God, they neither know God's real/point form, nor they are really/practically attached to God. Hence they are more attached to their prophets than God or character].

610)Advaita Philosophy also is like violation of Absolute Truth. Details already put in Posts 97 and 98.

611)Buddhism believes in reincarnation, but not fixed/eternal soul. Hence there is confusion in the absolute aspects like soul and God.

612)All these short-comes/errors in these various scriptures have direct or at least indirect connection with False Gita.
If the incorporeal form of God had been realized properly or at least pressed/announced by the Gita scholars/preachers (instead of corporeal Krishna), even karma philosophy and character would have got importance in Islam and Christianity (instead of which are based on mere limited faith), is it not?

And- confusion in Advaita philosophy and Buddhism too would have got reduced, is it not?

613)By seeing the corruption/errors in these various scriptures/religions, Buddhism might have turned into ignoring the most important entities- God (Supreme Soul) and Soul. In this way, partly, Buddhism got turned into atheism.
Readers are free to think, churn, judge and proceed as they feel correct.
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Re: False Gita, and its effect

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# Post No. 137) Essence of Gita- Part ELEVEN:- Right Interpretation of Verse 9-11

615)Referring to Post No. 132,the verses - 08:09, 08:10, 07:24, 07:25, 04:06 to 04:09, 10:03 - viewtopic.php?t=2717&sid=2df18d693fbab2 ... a&start=75

Adding a couple of verses - 02:22 and 02:23 here-

616)Verse 02:22- https://www.holy-bhagavad-Gita.org/chapter/2/verse/22

"vasansi jirnani yatha vihaya
navani grihnati naro ’parani
tatha sharirani vihaya jirnanya
nyani sanyati navani dehi"

Meaning = "As a person sheds worn-out garments and wears new ones, likewise, at the time of death, the soul casts off its worn-out body and enters a new one."

This verse implies - body is related to cloth/garment/dress. Soul is related to person. When a person changes his dress, his form remains same, is it not?
Similarly, when a soul sheds its present body and takes next body, its form also remains same. So- form of soul should remain constant- as per the above verse..

617)Verse 02:23- https://www.holy-bhagavad-Gita.org/chapter/2/verse/23

"nainaṁ chhindanti śhastrāṇi nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ
na chainaṁ kledayantyāpo na śhoṣhayati mārutaḥ"

Meaning = "Weapons cannot shred the soul, nor can fire burn it. Water cannot wet it, nor can the wind dry it."

Here also it says- no physical change can happen in soul. Means form of soul should remain constant.[/video]
.

618) From these- we can imply- a soul when sheds its present body and takes next body, it gets seated at the same place, that is- centre of eyebrows (brain) in the next body. And- its form remains same- that is POINT.

619)So- when form of soul cannot change as per Gita, how can form of God change? When incorporeal/point form of soul cannot get transformed into physical body, how can incorporeal/point form of God can change as bodies of Sri Krishna, Sri Ram, etc?

620)So- how to interpret verse 9-11 that says- I(God) takes support of human being?

EXPLANATION:-
----Like a soul's place in a human body is always the seat of eyebrows/brain, so even the incorporeal/point God should also take seat at the place of human brain only in a human body, is it not?
---So- God taking support of human body = incarnation of God means = God entering already existing human body = God entering a human being's body, and being seated close to that human soul (eyebrows/brain).

--So-Two souls will be sitting in that body, one the original human soul, the owner of the body, the other is the Supreme Soul. (Soul and Supreme Soul are so tiny that requires very less space. So- even two souls can sit close to each other in one body).

621)Some may question- how can two souls sit in one body? Where is Gita it is said - two souls can sit in one body?
More Explanation:-

Gita verses clearly say- God is above (physical) birth and deaths, God cannot take physical form (God's form can never be physical), God cannot be like human being, God cannot take birth like human being, hence God cannot take birth physically through human womb(Sri Krishna, Sri Ram took births through human womb only), etc, etc, but at the same time say God takes support of human being, God takes divine birth. So-

If God cannot take birth like human beings, but at the same time takes support of human being, it implies God should take support of an ALREADY EXISTING HUMAN BEING, is it not?

622)God is called as INCORPOREAL, as well as CREATOR. Role of Creation is given to Brahma also who is corporeal (obviously has body). This implies for the role of creation, God should take support of (incarnate = enter) Brahma's body, is it not? Hence Brahma is the Chariot of God. More about creator and creation will be explained in next post.

# Post No. 138)False Gita made Intellects of the coming generation handicapped to churn:-

623)When name of corporeal Sri Krishna got finalized/declared at incorporeal God's seat, the room to think, churn and interpret about the incarnation of POINT OF DIVINE LIGHT AND MIGHT Supreme Soul got lost. Even the awareness and importance of God's Chariot too got lost and the critical verses like 9-11 and similar others got totally misinterpreted and the Hindu devotees lost the track to reach incorporeal/real God.

624)Not only the existing generation, but also the coming generation too became intellectually handicapped to a great extent to interpret or realize POINT/REAL form of God and his incarnation.
Because when all the Gita believers and followers will be in the state of corporeal feeling [due to the Supreme Personality (God of Gita) HIMSELF being projected as corporeal/Krishna], how can anyone try to interpret the verse properly? Even if anyone realizes incorporeal truth at least to some extent, convincing others will be even more difficult.

625)Hence result is in front of our eyes. That is - in almost all Gita books, the translation and interpretation have become wrong which is already put above.
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