Remembrance

[John2]

What is accurate remembrance according to Om Mandli?

[Zorba the Greek]

What is accurate remembrance according to Om Mandli?

Dear John2,

Welcome to the forum!

If you could provide your brief history of association with Brahma Kumaris since the very beginning it would assist in providing you a clarification which would be most suited to you.

Thank you.

[John2]

ex-BK since 80s.
Actually I am same poster as John but my log in details long lost....anyway a fresh start is good.
There has been debate is Shiva remembered in Paramdham or is Shiva remembered in body of brahma....
If member of Om Mandli could provide clarification.

[Zorba the Greek]

Dear John,

We have interacted with each other before - both under a different name.

Do you have some idea of the formation and constitution of the new Om Mandli?

[John2]

I have no idea.....its new to me
I have read the info on this section.
I'd be interested to find out more.

[Zorba the Greek]

Dear John,

Shiv Baba's first corporeal part (since around the mid-1930's until Brahma Baba left his corporeal body in 1969), was enacted through the corporeal body of Dada Lekhraj or Brahma Baba, until 1969.

Shiv Baba's second Avyakt part (along with Avyakt Brahma Baba) was enacted through the corporeal body of Sister Shobha or Dadi Gulzar from 1969 until around 2016-17.

Shiv Baba's third Avyakt part (along with Avyakt Brahma Baba) is being enacted since 2017 through the corporeal body of Sister Babita or Devaki Maiya (Divine Mother Devaki - who is the very same soul of Saraswati Mama), who is instrumental to give corporeal birth to Brahma Baba's soul as Shri Krishna, shortly.
Shiv Baba speaks separately in the same voice with a whisper, while Brahma Baba then speaks separately in a mixed audible voice, while the normal voice of Devaki Maiya is entirely different!

After Saraswati Mama left her corporeal body in 1965, she did take a new birth in an effluent royal family in Nepal, with very beautiful features. However, after settling her required karmic accounts, she left that body at a young age while she was still in her 20's, and took the current birth as Sister Babita in a poor family with normal features, once again - since Shiv Baba is praised as the 'uplifter of the poor'!

'As in the beginning so at the end!' The very same souls who came in intimate contact with BapDada since mid-1930's are now in the process of coming in intimate contact again through this third and final part of Shiv Baba and Brahma Baba, on this corporeal sphere.

To come to your query of 'accurate remembrance', Brahma Baba has clarified that remembrance of Shiv Baba should be very simple - as one wants, as one wishes, as one is comfortable with. You may remember Him in the Soul World, but He is now operating mostly from the Subtle Regions. Soul World is His Residence, but His Office is in the Subtle Regions during Confluence Age. You can simply have a casual chit-chat with Him in any relationship of your choice - that too is 'accurate remembrance'!

That is quite easily said, but any form of remembrance is STILL difficult to achieve.
We will touch on the latest technique advocated by BapDada to facilitate remembrance, for the current period of time, in our next post, in due course.

Thank you for your kind attention. You are at liberty to pose any questions which may occur to you spontaneously. We will respond according to the availability of time at our disposal. Thank you for your patience!

With Divine Love always ...

[John2]

Thank you....
To me it makes sense for BapDada to move out of Madhuban.
Is there a date for last Avyakt Vani from Gulzar and first from sister devaki?

[Zorba the Greek]

Is there a date for last Avyakt Vani from Gulzar and first from sister devaki?

To check the last Version spoken by BapDada through Dadi Gulzar log on to the site below -
http://www.bkdrluhar.com/
Then scroll down to = 013. Avyakt Murli Section = and click on = 02. English = then scroll down to = 49 2016-2017 = and open the adjacent link, then scroll down to = 07 07. 20.03.2017 = and open the htm/pdf file link, and note that the date of the AV is the same as the date of the Avyakt Meeting, viz. 20.03.2017. The AV of the next Avyakt Meeting on 10.04.2017 is a replay of an earlier AV dated 18.02.2008.

Then go back to = 50 2017-2018 = and open the adjacent link, and compare the date of the Avyakt Meetings with the actual date of the AVs, in successive htm/pdf files.

10.11.2017 (just a few sentences through Dadi Gulzar, followed by replay of an earlier AV),
05.12.2017 (again a few sentences through Dadi Gulzar, followed by replay of an earlier AV),
31.12.2017 (just a short Meeting through Dadi Gulzar, followed by replay of an earlier AV).
After this there are only replays of earlier AVs in subsequent Avyakt Meetings.

Hence, the last COMPLETE Version spoken by BapDada through Dadi Gulzar should be on 20.03.2017, after which her body was too weak to continue as the stable Chariot of BapDada.

First available recorded message through Divine Mother Devaki was on 23.07.2017. The text of same in Hindi and English are attached below –

ShivBaba Message - 23.07.2017 Hindi.pdf

(152.02 KiB) Downloaded 167 times

ShivBaba Message - 23.07.2017 English.pdf

(100.52 KiB) Downloaded 169 times

[John2]

OK thank you....that seems right.....I read Avyakt Vani in April 2017 was cancelled due to ill health of Gulzar.

[Zorba the Greek]

What is accurate remembrance according to Om Mandli?

The Purifier, the ‘Bestower of Salvation’, is only One Father, and you have to Remember that Father, alone (and NONE other). Not just the Father, but you also have to remember your sweet Home (Soul World); and not just your sweet Home, you also need prosperity and so you must remember the ‘land of Heaven’ (RamRajya) also! ”

[ SM, Revised 18.01.2023 ]

This too is 'accurate remembrance'!

[John2]

Versions of Shiv Baba
24.10.2021

OK .. Today, BapDada gives Love and Remembrance from His Heart, and congratulations from His Heart, to ALL the children; and what is Father Brahma .. for everyone .. the original (‘Alokik’) Father. The Kingdom (of the New World) is also his, and as you progress, you have to go to his Kingdom. Is that fine? .. Will you go? .. You have made preparations, have you not? Just see, how egoless he is! What does he (Brahma Baba) say – you will receive your inheritance if you Remember (ONLY) the Father (Shiva). *But Father (Shiva) will say – if you Remember BapDada then you will receive your inheritance.* ‘Liberation - Salvation (Liberation-in-Life)’, ‘Bap - Dada’ .. the whole world remembers the Father (Shiva), so they will achieve Liberation in the Supreme Abode, and that too for half a Cycle. *But when BOTH the Father (ShivBaba), and Dada (Brahma Baba) are remembered, then what would happen? In the Supreme Abode also you would be sitting close to the Father (Shiva), and in the Golden Age also you will be sitting close to the (‘Alokik’) Father (Brahma Baba)* OK? Those who say, ‘we do not have anything to do with Father Brahma’ .. they are saying, ‘we have NOTHING to do with the Golden Age.’ If you have to come to Golden Age .. then ‘Bap – Dada’. Those who say, ‘we are concerned with only Father Shiva, we do not know Brahma’, then what would (Shiv) Baba say? That is fine, you can stay with Me for half the Cycle, in the Supreme Abode (Soul World). The Happiness of Liberation-in-Life of this World will be received by the other children .. OK? Some say, ‘Baba, liberate us from this Cycle .. these adverse circumstances will come again after 5000 years .. this Cycle will continue to repeat .. then this will happen again.’ The Father would say *the Confluence Age is the Age for opening the Lock of the ENTIRE Drama. The Father has opened the Lock .. EVERY child can CHANGE one’s part; EVERY child can become Lakshmi, or Narayan; there is still a margin for 8 also, and for 108 also .. you can become a Bead of any Rosary (of 8, or of 108)!*

So ShivBaba is saying one should remember Brahma Baba also?

[Zorba the Greek]

So ShivBaba is saying one should remember Brahma Baba also?

In this Eternal World Drama Play, a soul has to play his/her role through a body. A soul cannot perform any action without a body, and a body without a soul is just a corpse!
Therefore, both soul and body are necessary in order to play a role within this Drama!
At the end of the Iron Age, everyone has almost lost the awareness of the Self, the soul, and all actions which are performed are based on body-consciousness, which lead to progressive decrease of soul-consciousness. It is, as if, the body is functioning without a soul – and this leads to situations and circumstances which inadvertently cause sorrow to the soul.

In the Golden Age, one is fully aware that one is a soul, and is playing a role through a body – and so the soul experiences maximum happiness and minimum sorrow.
In the Iron Age, one is deluded into believing that one is a body, which probably has a soul somewhere within – and so the soul experiences maximum sorrow and minimum happiness.

In the Golden & Silver Ages one REMEMBERS the Self, the soul, and is AWARE that one is playing a role through a body, number-wise.
Therefore, those who are destined to play a role in the Golden & Silver Ages, have to develop soul-consciousness, once again, during this Confluence Age, by REMEMBERING the Supreme Soul, ShivBaba - ALONE - who is the Spiritual Sun providing Spiritual Energy to souls. Simultaneously, they also have to be AWARE that they are going to receive a pure body in Golden & Silver Ages, number-wise, and this AWARENESS can be developed by being AWARE of the number one human soul within this EWD Play – Brahma Baba, or Prajapita Brahma, or Adi Dev, or Adam, the First Man, who is the FIRST human being who develops such AWARENESS by REMEMBERING ShivBaba, ALONE!

Therefore, the Shrimat given to souls who go right around the Cycle is to REMEMBER ShivBaba, ALONE - and also to be fully AWARE of Brahma Baba. So, in this particular context, when it is said that ‘one should also remember Brahma Baba’, it means that one should also be AWARE of Brahma Baba.

For souls who have to play a part in Golden Age & Silver Age - one should FIRST consider oneself as a soul, and progressively develop the EXPERIENCE of oneself as a soul, by making concerted efforts to REMEMBER ONLY ShivBaba, by simultaneously being AWARE of Brahma Baba also!

Manmanabhav & Madhyajibhav, the Creator & the creation, ShivBaba & Brahma Baba, ‘Alif’ (‘Alpha’) & ‘Bey’ (‘Beta’) – Pure SOUL & Pure BODY!

For souls who have to play a part in Copper Age & Iron Age – one should FIRST attempt to consider oneself as a soul, as best as possible, and endeavour to progressively develop the EXPERIENCE of oneself as a soul, to the best of one’s ability, by making best possible efforts to REMEMBER ONLY ShivBaba, ALONE – and in this case, the question of being AWARE of Brahma Baba DOES NOT ARISE!

This means that what is considered to be ‘ACCURATE REMEMBRANCE’ is NOT ABSOLUTE - but RELATIVE!!! It depends on the particular role which a soul is preordained to play within this EWD Play! Therefore, the term, ‘ACCURATE REMEMBRANCE’ has DIFFERENT connotations for DIFFERENT souls!

Trust the matter is adequately clarified!