Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

[sita]

If I go away, should I come again and again? That is why I don’t go at all. I won’t go without you at all.
I have love for the children, don’t I? (Mu. 30.06.68, end of pg.1)

If He does not go, where is He?

What is the specialty of U. P.? There are many pilgrimage places and there are many rivers too.
The Guru of the world (Jagadguru) is also at that very place.... (A.V. 17.04.84, end of pg.249)

Why is Jagadguru said for UP?

[sita]

In the Murli it is said that on the path of Bhakti people remember the purifier. But on the path of Bhakti no one remembers a point of light.

[mbbhat]

Please, present some evidence where he has used it.

18) Already said and given to you EARLIER . Do not you have even slightest intellect to understand?
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There is nothing wrong in studying the history of the Yagya from worldly sources for to know it in a worldly way.

19) The point here is - PBK God failed, and fell into the pit by adopting it. So, got only wrong thing, and followed it for decades and decades. Can such a person be called as intelligent Narayan?

If I go away, should I come again and again? That is why I don’t go at all. I won’t go without you at all. I have love for the children, don’t I? (Mu. 30.06.68, end of pg.1)

20) In PBK view- The PBK Guru had left Yagya from 1942 till 1969, and also went to jail for six months. Their first mother Premkanta left, and second took the place and she too is out of Yagya from 1998.

If He does not go, where is He?

21)He is playing His role in Avyakt together with Brahma Baba, and also coming in Madhuban whenever required.

What is the specialty of U. P.? There are many pilgrimage places and there are many rivers too.
The Guru of the world (Jagadguru) is also at that very place.... (A.V. 17.04.84, end of pg.249)

Why is Jagadguru said for UP?

22) PBKs due to their inverted intellects, assume that BapDada had certified that there is some REAL GURU in UP.
But, BapDada had said- there are MANY lowkik Jagadgurus, mainly/majority in UP. - :laugh:
(I am yet to read/get the Murli. But, it is simple to understand.)

In the Murli it is said that on the path of Bhakti people remember the purifier. But on the path of Bhakti no one remembers a point of light.

23) So what? People think about God even in Bhakti, but not in right way.

But, Mr. Dixit, due to his kanras, has completely brainwashed PBKs to such an extent that- they like to argue that the right form of God/purifier is not point of light (incorporeal), but it is actually corporeal. And, try to prove that Bhakti (what people follow in Copper and Iron Ages ) is right, and not Gyan (what Conf Aged Brahmins believe)!

As usual, they like to come to conclusion by taking isolated Murli points in twisted way. That is fine, if they believe there is enjoyment in that for them!

[sita]

18) Already said and given to you EARLIER . Do not you have even slightest intellect to understand?
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Still when the discussion was going on, you have been told that Baba is just repeating the sentence. You try to imply that he should have objected to that name, and if not it is as if he has certified it, but certainly there is a difference if you say something from your mouth and when others say it. I have requested evidences when Baba has said the name Sevakram from his mouth and so far you have failed to provide this. Don't be smart.

It is true that Sevakram was considered the partner and is considered even now. Baba could not possibly know the name of the person from the beginning without any references. The few references that were available at that time was about Sevakram. The idea that the partner is also a brother in law may also not be wrong, because we don't know what was the status of the brother in law of Bahma Baba. The information about Sevakram is also a hearsay, because I have never seen evidences about it and have only told what I have been told. But the person who was telling me this, later has claimed that there is no such person as Sevakram at all. :prize: So, I don't know how far the information shared about this is reliable.

19) The point here is - PBK God failed, and fell into the pit by adopting it. So, got only wrong thing, and followed it for decades and decades. Can such a person be called as intelligent Narayan?

Baba has said that these LN are intelligent because they become masters of the world. Baba has said that an actor that does not know ones own part is a stupid actor. intelligence is to know ones own part.

20) In PBK view- The PBK Guru had left Yagya from 1942 till 1969, and also went to jail for six months. Their first mother Premkanta left, and second took the place and she too is out of Yagya from 1998.

What is the connection with what we are discussing. The matter was that God does not go until he takes us with him. From the beginning one or the other corporeal medium was there. I don't know why you think that going to jail is a problem for ShivBaba, maybe you think he will get scared and leave the medium for this time. And why do you mention Premkanta and Jagadamba has left in that connection to the topic that Baba has not left. Nobody is claiming Baba has entered them. But I know why you mention these things. You think that going to jail is something defamatory to us, and also that Premkanta and Jagadamba has left is something bad for our name. In the world of lies, where everyone is false and where falsehood rules, an honest person will certainly be put in jail, as he does not fit the society. About the soul leaving the Yagya, all souls are free. Jagadnath is shown without hands, souls fail to co-operate in his task it does not mean the task will not be completed.

21)He is playing His role in Avyakt together with Brahma Baba, and also coming in Madhuban whenever required.

Where is Baba all the time, like now? He cannot do anything without a corporeal body and he also cannot go back. He does not enter the subtle Brahma. He also does not enter a kumari, nor comes on being invoked, nor he comes in big gatherings, nor speaks over microphone, so he does not come in Gulzar Dadi either.

22) PBKs due to their inverted intellects, assume that Bap-Dada had certified that there is some REAL GURU in UP.

Certainly, why not? BapDada is BapDada to all, he is our BapDada as well. He has to please the children with inverted intellects as well.

23) So what? People think about God even in Bhakti, but not in right way.
But, Mr. Dixit, due to his kanras, has completely brainwashed PBKs to such an extent that- they like to argue that the right form of God/purifier is not point of light (incorporeal), but it is actually corporeal. And, try to prove that Bhakti (what people follow in Copper and Iron Ages ) is right, and not Gyan (what Conf Aged Brahmins believe)!
As usual, they like to come to conclusion by taking isolated Murli points in twisted way. That is fine, if they believe there is enjoyment in that for them!

Path of Bhakti is a memorial of the Confluence Age, it is like a mirror image. Whatever happens there, happens hear practically. whatever they worship there, we know and remember it in practical form and we also become that. Baba has said that we worship our own past/future perfect from. This does not apply only to the inmage of Ram and Krishna, Lakshmi and Narayan, but also of the shivling. People on the path of Bhakti worship the shivling the most.

The correct image of the purifier is not an incorporeal point of light, because only a point of light, without a corporeal body cannot do anything. God comes and does not go back. He cannot be a point of light now, because he is there in this corporeal world for the period of the whole Confluence Age. The image of the shivling is a corporeal and visible image, still he is also incorporeal, because there are no organs visible, because there is no consciousness of the body. This is the image of the complete stage of the soul when whilst in the body it does not have a consciousnesses of the body.

[mbbhat]

Still when the discussion was going on, you have been told that Baba is just repeating the sentence. You try to imply that he should have objected to that name, and if not it is as if he has certified it, but certainly there is a difference if you say something from your mouth and when others say it.

24) If one (that too the Guru himself) has not objected his followers to use that name, then it is as good as (inadvertently) certifying it*.

I have requested evidences when Baba has said the name Sevakram from his mouth and so far you have failed to provide this. Don't be smart.

25) There is no need of that. You are trying to act smart, as if even after falling, the moustache did not get dirtied. Good. CARRY ON!

* - PBKs quote the Murli point - "jo ishaarey se samajhney vaaley devtaa hain....= One who can understand by signal, is deity, one who realizes by words is human,...- but act EXACTLY OPPOSITE to that, and ask for evidence even when it is there in front of their very eyes.

But, there is no surprise, because it is already evident that it is due to their inverted intellects. And, there is need of servants even in heaven. So, PBK activities are perfectly right as per drama.

So, I don't know how far the information shared about this is reliable.

Good. CARRY ON with GIGO (Computer term for 'Garbage IN, Garbage OUT')!
-----------

And why do you mention Premkanta and Jagadamba has left in that connection to the topic

You had asked as if where Father has gone and written as if there is no Father in BKWSU. That is why it was written that both Father and mother had been absent in AIVV.

In BK view, or the Murli point of view, there is no need of the Father in corporeal form, in the MANNER like PBKs expect.
So- your arguments have no value.

But, in PBK view itself, their Father and mothers, and their names too have been continuously changing now and then.

That is fine. CARRY ON with GIGO, if you find same enjoyable!

[sita]

24) If one (that too the Guru himself) has not objected his followers to use that name, then it is as good as (inadvertently) certifying it*.

Brother, I have just stated the simple fact that I don't remember Baba using the name Sevakram.

Good. CARRY ON with GIGO (Computer term for 'Garbage IN, Garbage OUT')!

Why garbage, brother? I have just said I haven't seen evidences, not that the research and the information are not true. And it is a matter of effort and dedication that results in valuable information for us. You should value and respect that.

In BK view, or the Murli point of view, there is no need of the Father in corporeal form, in the MANNER like PBKs expect.
So- your arguments have no value.

This is not a surprise, because it reflects the mentality that "We only will establish heaven, we don't need God" But It contradicts the Murli. Only God can establish heaven. Children may become helpers, but those who follow Shrimat, and Shrimat is oral instruction of one.

The logic is very simple, still you are locked in denial. Baba has said that I come, and till I finish my task, I don't go back. It means He does not go back to Paramdham. It means that now, because His task is not accomplished, He has not gone back to Paramdham, He is not there in Paramdham now, He has to be here somewhere on earth in a corporeal body, because this is how He acts. He needs a body. Only when He enters a corporeal body can He act and accomplish His task, without a body He cannot do anything. It is also said that I don't enter the subtle Brahma, I enter a corporeal one. Here you fail to explain where is the Supreme Soul now.

[mbbhat]

Brother, I have just stated the simple fact that I don't remember Baba using the name Sevakram.

27) Why are you here? Just to argue like an ordinary person(or perhaps much lower than that!), or discuss being gyaan swaroop?

So- you are just adding garbage. It just shows more of LLU.

28) Murlis clearly say - there is no need of Brahma in corporeal till end. So- all of your arguments clearly show that you are acting superior to ShivBaba and you like to behave as if your bodily guru, and you, are father of the Father.

But, if you like to continue to act like that, it is your wish. All the best.

[sita]

Murlis clearly say - there is no need of Brahma in corporeal till end.

I don't know about this point. Please, quote it.

[mbbhat]

I don't know about this point. Please, quote it.

29) There are countless Murli points, on them, already given to you. Post No. 117, 121 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=160 as well as in Post No. 84 - Mu point No. 08 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 110#p11851

Also - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2009&p=50364&hilit= ... laa#p50364

Inverted intellects may not accept this!

[sita]

The links you have provided don't contain the point that there is no need of Brahma in corporeal till end. Certainly there is need, because without Brahma in corporeal there is no role of God, we cannot have connection without ShivBaba without Brahma and the soul of Shiv does not come in the subtle Brahma.

In the links you have provided it says that study is over and revise course is going on and BapDada comes only to meet and not to teach and it remains that souls go back together. Souls will go back following different souls. The souls of the different religions will go back following their respective religious Father and there will be souls going back following Brahma Baba.

[mbbhat]

The links you have provided don't contain the point that there is no need of Brahma in corporeal till end.

30) It is almost clearly implied.

Certainly there is need,

31) If you like to argue in one sided manner, expecting the words - "Brahma need not be in corporeal till end" - in 100% literal sense, then you should also provide Murli points saying - "there is need of Brahma in corporeal till end ". Provide it before giving your lecture.

Else, your lecture is like garbage only. Or admit that you like to argue in ONE SIDED MANNER and have DOUBLE STANDARDS. Else you are like a liar.

[sita]

Brother,

Many times already, as soon as you are requested to provide evidence to support your claims, your answers are like "it is almost like that". Almost is not the same as the real thing. Now you are requesting me to support a claim I haven't made, just because you are not happy, because you make claims that are difficult to support.

I understand that you have the ambition and maybe the impression that you are proving everything and winning every argument, but I assure you that by providing links to old discussions where nothing has been proved, this does not take the discussion any further.

Baba has said that the study is over, but which study? Are we not making effort and studying still. We will drink for as long as our body consciousness is still alive. We have not become pure. Heaven hasn't been established. Souls have not gone back, nature hasn't been purified. We don't know our part. There are so many things pending.

I have provided a simple logical sequence that you have to disprove, and have not done so far. You have not pointed where is the Supreme Soul at the moment, since once He comes, He does not go, and he enters only a corporeal one and not a subtle one. All of these are said in the Murlis.

Further, these are few points to consider:

"Until this body of him exists, I will keep giving the knowledge. The kingship will be established, then the destruction will begin and I shall go [back]." (Mu.01.12.73, beginning of pg.3)

The above point implies that kingdom will be established and destruction will begin whilst he is in a body. We don't see kingdom established, nor destruction having happened.

"This is an iron box. By sitting in them continuously, finally, this box will also become a golden [box]. They will become like a diamond. Only the Diamond will give a diamond like birth, won’t He?" (Mu.02.06.69, middle of pg.3)

The box means the body, the body will become golden. This was not the case with Brahma Baba. Only then they will become like diamonds and worthy to give birth to diamond like children.

"The Father also became subtle from corporeal, then incorporeal from subtle and then He will become corporeal again." (A.V. 15.09.74, middle of pg.131)

It is said that He will become corporeal again. This point goes against your claim that He does not need to be corporeal.

"Now this is the last birth of many births. I have entered this one. I enter [him] and explain to you children. As long as his body exists, you have to drink the nectar of knowledge." (Mu. 09.11.72, middle of pg.2)

Are we still drinking the nectar of knowledge or have we stopped? If the body is not there why haven't we stopped?

"The Father is certainly the Ocean of Peace, isn’t He? He will have a part in the end." (Mu.02.05.68, end of pg.2)

All the qualities like Ocean of Peace can be manifested only through corporeal body.

"The Father has also come for the destruction, so, He won’t go away in between. When the fire has burnt completely, He will go away. [...] He will take everyone along [with Him]. This certainly has to happen." (Mu.20.09.77, beginning of pg.3)

But it hasn't happened so far, so where is He now?

[mbbhat]

"The Father also became subtle from corporeal, then incorporeal from subtle and then He will become corporeal again." (A.V. 15.09.74, middle of pg.131)

It is said that He will become corporeal again. This point goes against your claim that He does not need to be corporeal.

32) You are just expressing more of your LLU, under the SEVERE SPELL of your bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit.
It means he will become corporeal again in Golden Age, and NOT in Confluence Age.

If PBKs believe - same (Murli point) applies ONLY to Confluence Age, has Mr Dixit become subtle at least? Absolutely NO. Mr Dixit is still biggest BLUNDER maker, and PBKs also believe he is still being controlled by a ghost ; that too to the extent of slapping some sister during Amrit Vela.*

In BK view, as well as Murli point of view, B Baba has already become subtle as well as reached incorporeal stage, and is now ONLY waiting for ALL the other Children to achieve similar stage like him, by following his practical example.

Whereas, in Mr. Dixit' s case - he is neither subtle nor incorporeal - either externally/physically or internally/stage.

* - PBKs also believe Mr Dixit will be controlled by the ghost till almost the end. - :laugh:

EACH & EVERY point of SMs & AVs, used by the PBKs and their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit, has been SIMILARLY MISAPPROPRIATED, as in the case of this EXAMPLE, and the PBKs would NOT be in a position to REALIZE their blunders, until they receive Divine Vision from ShivBaba or God!

So, you may continue to nourish yourself with garbage, and LOLL in same to your heart's content, if that pleases you. All the best. But it is not just garbage. It is also manure. So, absolutely fine. Let God bless you and the BLIND PBKs, so that they may wake up and receive Divine Vision, at least BEFORE it is TOO LATE for them!

[sita]

In one of the latest AV it was said that over the murti of Baba there is also a rosary.

In fact, a rosary is put over the Shivling too. The shivling is visible, because it is a ling, but it is also without an image, since there are no hands, face etc. There is reference about this invisible murti in the Gita like Avyakt murtina.