Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

[vrkrao]

... आप ऊंचे ते ऊंचे भगवान द्वारा डायरेक्ट पालना, पढ़ाई और श्रेष्ठ जीवन की श्रीमत लेने वाली आत्मायें हो। जानते हो ना अपने को? ...
... you souls are those who take direct sustenance from the Highest on High, from God. You study with Him and take Shrimat from Him to make your life elevated. You know yourselves, do you not?

Correction: It is not 'Study with Him'. It is 'Study from Him'

Churning for PBK brothers on the point referred above :

a) Highest of highest, lowest of lowest - Whom does this apply to? To the Incorporeal, who never comes into cycle of birth and death, and who cannot be compared to anyone, who takes birth from mother's womb? Will you be able to compare two souls in the sky that one is high and other is lower? Don't you think they need to be in body for comparison?

b) Take Shrimat from 'Him'? Who is 'He'? Again, is it the Incorporeal, who is known to none about His location, Or from the one who comes at specific intervals of time who can be accessible to handful of Seniors only? Or just interpret the Murli in one's own churnings and believe that it is Shrimat from God? Or seek Shrimat from Center/Regional/Zonal/Territory/Country heads? Who does 'Him' refer to?

PS: I seek apology from PBK brothers for not putting enough effort to prove my interpretations, as the only Truth in the World by - underlining, capitalizing, italicizing, font-changing, quotes from Tipitaka, Adi Granth, Bible/Quran or Western philosophers' quotations.

Om Shanti

= RESPONSE =

"You study with Him and take Shrimat from Him to make your life elevated."
Interpretations can be confusing; and written words are ALWAYS SUBJECT to individual interpretations, when the original INTENT of the original SPEAKER cannot be ACCURATELY PERCEIVED, owing to DIFFERENCE in the STAGE or STATE of individual consciousness of embodied souls.
"Study with Him", can also imply that God Himself also studies, which OBVIOUSLY CANNOT be the case. Here it would imply that CONCERNED embodied souls study in the COMPANY of God, WHILE TAKING Shrimat FROM Him!

"... पढ़ाई और श्रेष्ठ जीवन की श्रीमत लेने वाली आत्मायें हो।"
A more appropriate interpretation could have been, -
"You are souls who STUDY, and TAKE Shrimat FROM Him, for an ELEVATED LIFE"

If one keeps going ONLY AFTER WORDS, (as Virendra Dev Dixit and his BLIND FOLLOWERS have been doing), WITHOUT developing the ABILITY to ACCURATELY PERCEIVE the TRUE, ORIGINAL INTENT of the SPEAKER (or God, in this case) by SIMULTANEOUSLY DEVELOPING their consciousness to be AS CLOSE to the CONSCIOUSNESS of God, (as is practically feasible), then one would SURELY be instrumental to CORRUPT & ADULTERATE those WORDS, to be in ACCURATE CONSONANCE with one's DESIGNATED ROLE within Drama, which is EXACTLY what is PRACTICALLY UNFOLDING in the OPERATIONAL THEATER of this EWD, in Confluence Age.

"जानते हो ना अपने को?"
"You know yourselves, do you not?"
Virendra Dev Dixit and PBKs are NOT ABLE to PERCEIVE, as to WHO is ACTUALLY SPEAKING, and TO WHOM - AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME, IN THIS PARTICULAR PLACE ???
Were any PBKs, or was Virendra Dev Dixit, practically present in CORPOREAL, AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME, IN THIS PARTICULAR PLACE ???

"... ऊंचे ते ऊंचे भगवान द्वारा ..."
"... from the Highest on High, from God ..."
According to the PERVERTED, INVERTED, CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED churning of Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs, as CLEARLY INDICATED IN points a) and b) above by a INNOCENT (or 'IGNORANT' - but nevertheless HONEST & FAITHFUL) PBK, the term "Highest on High, from God", WOULD NOT APPLY to INCORPOREAL God, but to a CORPOREAL EMBODIED SOUL - thus INADVERTENTLY & 'INNOCENTLY' elevating an embodied soul to the status of God - instrumental to carry out the CLEAR 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap of Ravan Rajya!

THESE ASPECTS ARE SO SUBTLE, THAT AN EMBODIED SOULS NEEDS TO BE COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT TO BE ABLE TO PERCEIVE THEM WITH ANY DEGREE OF ACCURACY OR PROPRIETY; WHEREAS, Virendra Dev Dixit HAS COMPLETELY TRAPPED THE PBKs IN THE VICIOUS GRIP OF BODY-CONSCIOUSNESS, WITH HIS CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED advanced knowledge, PERTAINING TO Ravan Rajya!

[vrkrao]

Caught it !!! The very two conflicting statements one after the other -

Statement (1) If one keeps going ONLY AFTER WORDS, (as Veerendra Dev Dixit and his BLIND FOLLOWERS have been doing), WITHOUT developing the ABILITY to ACCURATELY PERCEIVE the TRUE, ORIGINAL INTENT of the SPEAKER (or God, in this case) by SIMULTANEOUSLY DEVELOPING their consciousness to be AS CLOSE to the CONSCIOUSNESS of God, (as is practically feasible) ...

Statement (2) "जानते हो ना अपने को?"
"You know yourselves, do you not?

Now, it is evident here on who is catching just the words ...

Om Shanti


= RESPONSE =

"जानते हो ना अपने को?"
"You know yourselves, do you not?"
The above interpretation can have TWO MAIN implications to the UNTRAINED MIND -
1) 'You, YOURSELVES, know'
2) 'You KNOW, your SELVES'

THIS ADEQUATELY DEMONSTRATES HOW SUPERFICIAL INTERPRETATIONS OR SUPERFICIAL COMPREHENSION OF EITHER THE WRITTEN WORDS OR EVEN THE SPOKEN WORDS, WHEN READ OR HEARD, IN A DIFFERENT STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS, WITHOUT BEING IN PROPER TUNE WITH THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE SPEAKER, CAN BE ABSOLUTELY TREACHEROUS & COMPLETELY MISLEADING!

ONCE AGAIN, CONCERNED viewers can readily comprehend the manner in which Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs merely keep going ONLY AFTER WORDS, rather than endeavouring to comprehend the ACTUAL INTENT - for which the consciousness NEEDS to be ELEVATED.
However, souls who are TOTALLY TRAPPED in body-consciousness would HAVE NO OTHER RECOURSE, but to involve themselves in doing JUST THAT, in accordance with their pre-destined designated roles within this EWD. Owing to their INVERTED INTELLECTS, coupled with their governing FALSE SUPERIORITY COMPLEX, they CAN NEVER DISCERN the subtler aspects of Knowledge, revealed to humanity through the SUBTLEST MIND of God!

[sita]

First the coolness of the mother will make the soul worthy and then the power of truth, the Sun of Knowledge will make the soul a yogi. The power of coolness of the Moon of knowledge makes the soul worthy to come in front of the Father. If it is not yet worthy it cannot become a yogi. Before the truth can be understood there has to be coolness. There has to be the power in order to be able to inculcate truth. (Ayakt Vani 21.2.85)

[sita]

"The soul will go from the Brahmin clan into the deity clan. It is not a question of the body." Murli 13.1.04

[sita]

"यहाँ तो शिवबाबा के पिछाडी ब्रह्मा तो ज़रूर चहिए। जो बाबा ने बहुत समझाया है देवताओँ के लिए भी कि त्रिमूर्ति ब्रह्मा क्योँ कह्ते हैँ। त्रिमूर्ति भला सब्से बडा तो शाँकर है ना क्योँकि बाबा ने समझाया है नेक्स्ट टू शिव पिछे है शाँकर क्योँकि बाबा को तो आ कर्के सर्विस कर्नी पड्ती है उसी रूप से। उनको अपना शरीर नहिँ। शाँकर जिसका बहुत थोडा पार्ट है वो फिर भी चोला ले लेते हैँ। इसलिए उस्को भाग्वान नहिँ कहा जाता है।" (24/4/1966)

"Here after ShivBaba, Brahma is certainly required. That the Father has explained a lot about the deities also that why do they say Trimurti Brahma. Although (it is) Trimurti, the biggest is Shankar, is it not, because the Father has explained next to shiv, after that is Shankar, because Baba has to come and do service from that form. He does not have his own body. Shankar whose part is very small, he also takes a body. That's why he is not called Bhagvan." (24/4/1966)

[mbbhat]

First the coolness of the mother will make ... (Ayakt Vani 21.2.85)

1) I do not find anything in this AV which supports PBKs. Baba is saying that- BOTH, 'Sakar'/'Alokik' Mother (who is ALSO the 'Alokik' Father) and 'Niraakaar'/'Parlokik' Father(who is ALSO the 'Parlokik' Mother) are necessary.
--BTW, PBKs believe it was father/Sevakram who had been incharge of Yagya from the VERY BEGINNING of Yagya (from 1936 till 1942). The role of mother started only from 1947 (or they may say it is from 1942, when there is need to twist).
--Even now, there is NO CORPOREAL mother in AIVV, just father only.
-- Their Kamala Devi is out of their Yagya, and their so-called 'Alokik' mother is a 'ghost', having no corporeal body, and PBKs believe, this 'Alokik' mother even slaps some sister during Amrit Vela. Is this coolness? This 'Alokik' mother is a bull, and rides on Shankar, creates eclipse on others, etc. (according to PBKs) ...
----Their 'mothers' keep om changing, and sometimes they do not hesitate to call ALL the mothers as not only 'cowardice', but also just title-holders - Flaw No. 226 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51292#p51292

First the 'coolness' of the 'Alokik' mother (Brahma Baba or soul of DLR) will make the soul worthy (when the concerned souls are fortunate enough to come IN FRONT OF the 'Alokik' mother, Brahma Baba, through the corporeal body of Dadi Gulzar), and then the power of truth, the Sun of Knowledge (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God, who is COMBINED with Brahma Baba) will make the soul a yogi (IF the concerned souls are FORTUNATE ENOUGH to Re-Cognize God, when He comes to MEET through the subtle body of Brahma Baba, using the corporeal body of Dadi Gulzar). The power of coolness of the Moon of Knowledge (Brahma Baba or soul of DLR) makes the soul worthy to come in front of the Father (Re-Cognize and REAL-EYEs Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God, and be able to comprehend the Pure Versions in the CORRECT PERSPECTIVE). If it is not yet worthy it cannot become a yogi (since the soul does not Re-Cognize God the way He TRULY IS). Before the truth can be understood there has to be coolness (which can ONLY be achieved after ACCURATE Re-Cognition of the Avyakt part of BapDada, COMBINED - BOTH ShivBaba & Brahma Baba TOGETHER). There has to be the power in order to be able to inculcate truth (UNTIL the souls Re-Cognize the Avyakt part of Brama Baba and ShivBaba, COMBINED, through the corporeal body of Dadi Gulzar, they CANNOT Re-Cognize the REAL TRUTH, LEAVE ALONE INCULCATE the TRUTH, and will CONTINUE to be TREACHEROUSLY TRICKED by Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as APPARENT 'ShivBaba', APPARENT 'Prajapita Brahma', APPARENT 'Shankar', etc., into DELUSIVELY believing that the FALSEHOOD of Ravan Rajya is the TRUTH of RamRajya)!

The soul will go from the Brahmin clan into the deity clan. It is not a question of the body." Murli 13.1.04

2)Nothing sensible. Baba is saying- "the present impure body does not go to deity clan. It is the soul that goes to deity clan". Present body gets destroyed. The Murli point itself goes against the belief of PBKs, since the Murli point indicates that the SOUL goes from the Brahmin clan into the Deity clan, and NOT the BODY!

"यहाँ तो शिवबाबा के पिछाडी ब्रह्मा तो ज़रूर चहिए। जो बाबा ने बहुत समझाया है देवताओँ के लिए भी कि त्रिमूर्ति ब्रह्मा क्योँ कह्ते हैँ। त्रिमूर्ति भला सब्से बडा तो शाँकर है ना क्योँकि बाबा ने समझाया है नेक्स्ट टू शिव पिछे है शाँकर क्योँकि बाबा को तो आ कर्के सर्विस कर्नी पड्ती है उसी रूप से। उनको अपना शरीर नहिँ। शाँकर जिसका बहुत थोडा पार्ट है वो फिर भी चोला ले लेते हैँ। इसलिए उस्को भाग्वान नहिँ कहा जाता है।"

a)"Here after ShivBaba, Brahma is certainly required.
b)That the Father has explained a lot about the deities also that why do they say Trimurti Brahma.
c) Although (it is) Trimurti, the biggest is Shankar, is it not, because the Father has explained next to Shiv, after that is Shankar, because Baba has to come and do service from that form.
d)He does not have his own body.
e)Shankar whose PART IS VERY SMALL, he also takes a body.
f)That's why he is not called Bhagvan." (24/4/1966)

3) To WHOM or in WHAT CONTEXT Baba is saying this- has to be understood first. Has any PBK tried this so far, or are they only accustomed to just keeping on quoting points in SMs and AVs, WITHOUT bothering to comprehend the ACTUAL INTENTIONS of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, in the FIRST PLACE?

a) Baba is saying that - "Chariot is required". To whom? Obviously to Bhakti marg people, because they do not know or believe God needs a Chariot/Brahma. [All BKs and PBKs know that God needs Brahma/Chariot]. When God says Brahma is CERTAINLY required, it CLEARLY refers to Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, is it not? Then how come the PBKs are FOOLED into believing that it refers to someone else???

b) In lowkik, it is said as Trimurti Brahma. [No PBK or BK believes so].
In a more subtler sense, since BOTH BapDada, or ShivBaba and Brahma Baba are COMBINED in the Conf Age, INCORPOREAL Trimurti Shiva, is referred to as CORPOREAL Trimurti Brahma by body-conscious souls in Bhaktimarg.

c) In lowkik, Shankar is placed very high in Trimurti (at some places or context), ...so Baba says- next to Shiv is Shankar. (Baba would be saying so, to appease souls with STRONG 'Bhakti sanskars', with the aim to keep them on track).* For BKs, it is immaterial, whether it is B or V or Shankar, who is the top-most. And- PBKs believe their Shankar IS A "BRAHMA, PRAJAPITA, AS WELL AS Vishnu and Narayan - ALL THESE". So, for them, how does it make any difference who is the top-most, since they are ALL ONE, according to their viewpoint?

ShivBaba has already clarified in the SMs that 'Dev, Dev, Mahadev' refers to the HIGHEST ACT of Shiva, (that of the DESTRUCTION of EVIL), and DOES NOT pertain to Shankar. 'Dev, Dev, Mahadev' means 'HIGHER THAN ANY DEITY' and DOES NOT mean 'highest deity', as propagated by the BLIND bodily guru of the PBKs, -Virendra Dev Dixit! This aspect has already been clarified earlier on this forum, but the TRUTH cannot be absorbed by the CORRUPTED & PERVERTED intellects of the PBKs or their 'maha-murkh' bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit.

d) Baba says so for the Bhakti people that "since God does not have any body, he has to come in some body". [All BKs or PBKs know that God does not have his own body, and needs the body of an embodied soul, very well).

e) Baba is saying that even Shankar takes body- Again this is said to lowkik people. Furthermore, this point does not at all say that Shankar takes a CORPOREAL body, as TOTALLY MISINTERPRETED by the PBKs and their bodily guru. [For BKs, they all know that every human soul has to take a body. And- PBKs DO NOT believe that role of their 'Shankar' is VERY SMALL. They believe that he is the Hero Actor and the role of a Hero Actor CANNOT BE SMALL]. Thus the point goes TOTALLY AGAINST the belief of the PBKs and their bodily guru. But the PBKs just keep quoting the points, at random, BLINDLY and without THINKING, and DO NOT REAL-EYEs the blunders they are committing, NOR do they understand that they are continuously SPINNING A SPIRITUAL WEB in which THEY THEMSELVES WILL EVENTUALLY GET TRAPPED.

f) Again, this is said keeping Bhakti people/belief in mind. [All BKs or PBKs know that Shankar cannot be called as Bhagavaan ].

* - 7-9-77(2):- Pahley toh baap ka parichay dena hai. Bhal vah jyotirlingam hi samjhe. Deep baath baad may samjhaani hoti hai. Phir poochnaa hota hai, atma ka roop kyaa hai? Yah toh kahte hain bhrukuti ke beech may chamaktaa hai….. To zaroor choti hogi. Badaa ling to yahaan baith bhi na sake. Fodaa nikal aaye. Pahley toh baap aur bachchon kaa sambandh buddhi may bithaanaa hai. Vah hai behad ka Baap.

=... Initially introduction of Father should be given. Let them (initially) understand God as JYOTI LING only. Deep matters are taught later. ...

[sita]

You are saying that the soul will come in front of Avyakt BapDada through Dadi Gulzar and experience coolness, then if it realizes God it will connect to him only on the soul level. But in the point it is not said that becoming a yogi is a matter of realization or effort from the concerned soul. It is said that the Father will make the soul a yogi. First the soul will come in front of the moon of knowledge, in front of the mother, in front of Brahma. Through the cool rays of knowledge given through the moon of knowledge Brahma Baba the soul will acquire power, it will become prepared to come in front of the Sun of Knowledge who is a separate personality. Through Brahma Baba the soul does not become a yogi, because through Brahma Baba it is not the part through which we have to remember God. Yes, Brahma is required so that we have connection. We cannot connect to God without Brahma, but Brahma is the name of many. God used to enter other children before Brahma Baba and after Brahma Baba, he again enters such a child who had followed the path of truth for many births and reveals himself as the truth Godfather, the Sun of Knowledge. By coming in front of him, the soul becomes a yogi. Mostly it is the BK who have been prepared by study of the Murlis who take the advanced knowledge.

When we go from the clan of Shudra to the clan of Brahmin, it is again not a matter of the body. We don't change the body, the soul changes, the mindset changes. In the same way it is not a matter of changing the body for to go to deity clan. Brahmin is incomplete stage, the stage fluctuates, goes up and down, mala of brahmins cannot be prepared, but when the effort reaches maturity, when it becomes complete, in one second the soul changes from brahmin to deity clan. It is not a matter of changing the body, the soul changes, the mindset changes.

The important point in the point about Shankar being next to Shiv is that it is said that Baba has to do service from that form, Baba has to come and do service from the form of Shankar. That is why he is next to Shiv.

[mbbhat]

You are saying that the soul will come in front of Avyakt BapDada through Dadi Gulzar and experience coolness, ... . But in the point it is not said that becoming a yogi is a matter of realization or effort from the concerned soul. It is said that the Father will make the soul a yogi. First the soul will come in front of the moon of knowledge, in front of the mother, in front of Brahma. Through the cool rays of knowledge given through the moon of knowledge Brahma Baba the soul will acquire power, it will become prepared to come in front of the Sun of Knowledge who is a separate personality.

There is nothing in the Murli point, which implies- "there is no need of effort". I believe- Effort is definitely needed everywhere. Putting the Murli point again-

First the coolness of the mother will make the soul worthy and then the power of truth, the Sun of Knowledge will make the soul a yogi. The power of coolness of the Moon of knowledge makes the soul worthy to come in front of the Father. If it is not yet worthy it cannot become a yogi. Before the truth can be understood there has to be coolness. There has to be the power in order to be able to inculcate truth. (Ayakt Vani 21.2.85)

The summary of the mu point is- coolness is necessary to inculcate truth.
Usually baba says- balance between authority and love, balance between karma and Yaad, balance between gambheerataa and ramaneekathaa, balance between sheetaltaa and jwaalaamukhi, jitnaa nashaa utnaa hee nirahankaari, etc.

[But, the PBk interpretation does not make any real sense, because according to PBKs, B baba is number one false Guru, and for them corporeal media is necessary from beginning till end. For them, the real mother is Kamala Devi, all others are just title holders. Other points put in the previous post. ]

For BKs, corporeal things are not as rigid as in the case of PBKs. It is flexible. We may feel B Baba either from Yagya history, realize/emerge from there, or/and to some extent, seen through Dadi Gulzar as well, during Avyakt BapDada's meeting, which is very cool, (not like strict and aggressive, like Mr Dixit).

If you believe effort is not necessary, why have so many PBKs left their body, many have formed their own splinter groups, etc.?

Double standards of PBKs is clearly visible. For PBKs Father is fixed, but mother need not be- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51307#p51307 . See- Baba has said- "first you have to win heart of Brahma (Brahma Baba or soul of DLR), then only you can win My Heart".

SM 16-10-77(3):- Govt bhi scholarship deti hai. Tumhaari bhi mala bani huyi hai. 108 ki bhi mala hoti hai aur 16108 ki bhi hoti hai. Ek box banate hain, usmey daal dete hain. Ab tum samajh gaye ho yah mala kiski hai. Rudraaksh ki mala kisko kaha jata hai? PAHLEY HAI BRAHMA KI MALA. Baap rachna rach rahe hain na. Brahma ki mala kounsi hai? Jo bahut teekhey honge vahi brahma ke dil par chadhenge. Jo brahma ke dil par chadhenge, vahi ShivBaba ke dil par chadhenge. YAH HAI BRAHMA KI MALA. Sabhi bachche hain na. TO PAHLEY UNKI MALA, PHIR RUDR KI MALA BANTI HAI. Phir jaakar Vishnu ke galey padenge. Vah heavenly Kingdom ab sthaapan ho rahi hai. -66 [= 19-9-82(2) -27- ]

= Govt also gives scholarship. Mala of yours is available/famous. There is of 108, and also 16108. In a box, they put it. Now you know whose mala it is. Which is mala of rudraksh? FIRST IS MALA OF BRAHMA. Father is creating creation, is it not? Which is mala of brahma? Those who are powerful will sit on/win heart of brahma. Those who win heart of Brahma only win heart of ShivBaba. This is mala of Brahma. All are children, is it not? So, FIRST IS HIS(BRAHMA’s) MALA, THEN RUDRMALA GETS FORMED. Then (they) get seated around neck of Vishnu. That heavenly kingdom is being established now.

First is mala of Brahma, then it is mala of ShivBaba. These all clearly imply that next to Shiv is Brahma (Brahma Baba or soul of DLR). Murli point also says- there is no mala of Shankar.

SM 20-4-89(1):- Yah bhi bachche jaante hain Rudr_mala bhi hai jo gaayi aur pooji jati hai. Simiran ki jati hai. Bhakt_mala bhi hai. Oonch te oonch bhakton ki maalaa hai. Hai to saari bhakt_mala, Ravan_mala. Is kalp ke Sangamyug ke pahle jo bhi hain sab hai Ravan_mala. Usmey phir bhakt_mala bhi hai. Bhakt_mala ke baad honi chahiye gyaan_mala. Bhakti aur gyaan hai na. Bhakt_mala bhi hai to rudr_mala bhi hai. Peeche phir rund_mala kaha jata hai. Kyonki oonche te oonch manushy srushti may hain Vishnu jisko sookshm_vatan may dikhate hain. LN raajy to yahaan karte hain to kahenge Vishnu ki rund_mala bhi hai. Prajapita Brahma to yah hai. Unki mala zaroor hai. Aakhrin yah mala bann jaayegi. Tab hi vah rudr_mala aur Vishnu ki rund_mala banegi. Oonche te oonch hai ShivBaba. Phir oonch te oonch hai Vishnu ka raajy. Yah Trimurti jo dikhaya hai- usmey hona chahiye Brahma Vishnu aur Shiv na ki Shankar. Parantu baaju may Shiv ko kaise rakhen? To phir Shankar ko rakh diya hai. Aur Shiv ko oopar may rakha hai. Usmey shobha achchi hoti hai. Sirf do(=two) shobha nahin dete. Shankar ki mala nahin kahenge. Brahma Vishnu aur Rudr Mala; Bas. Shobha ke liye Bhakti may kitney chitr banaye hain. Parantu gyaan kuch bhi nahin hai. Tum jo chitr banate ho unki pahchaan deni hai to manushy samajh jaaye. Nahin to Shiv Shankar ko mila dete hain. Baba ne samjhaya hai sookshm_vatan may bhi saari saakshaatkaar ki baath hai. Haddi maans vahaan hota nahin. Saakshaatkaar karte hain. Sampoorn Brahma bhi hai. Parantu vah hai sampoorn avyakti. Abhi vyakt Brahma jo hai, unko Avyakt ban_na hai. Vyakt hi Avyakt hota hai jisko pharista bhi kahte hain. Unka sookshmvatan may chitr rakh diya hai. Sookshmvatan may jate hain, kahte hain, Baba ne shoobi_ras pilaya. Ab vahaan jhaad aadi hota nahi. Vaikunth may hain, lekin aise nahin ki Vaikunth se le aakar pilate honge. Yah sab sookshmvatan may saakshaatkaar ki baath hai. Ab bachche jante hain ab vaapis ghar jana hai. -154

= Children also know that rudr Mala is also there which is praised and worshipped. It is remembered/chanted. There is also bhakt Mala. It is of highest devotees. Actually all belong to bhaktmala, Ravan Mala. All belong/ed to Ravan Mala before Confluence Age in this kalp. In it there is also bhakt mala. After the bhakt Mala, Gyan mala should form/come. There is bhakt mala and also rudr mala. Later it is said rundmala. Because highest of high in this creation is Vishnu who is shown in Subtle Region. LN rule here. So (we) say there is also Rund mala of Vishnu. This is Prajapita Brahma. Definitely there is mala of him. This mala will get formed in the end. Then only Rudrmala and rundmala will get formed). The highest of high is ShivBaba. Then highest of high is kingdom of Vishnu. In the Trimurti shown- there should be brahma Vishnu and shiv and not Shankar. But how can shiv be placed in the side? Hence Shankar is placed. And shiv is placed on the top. That looks good. Just two (below) does not look good. It is not said mala of Shankar. Brahma, Vishnu and Rudrmala. That is all. For show purpose, in Bhakti, so many pictures are done. But, there is no knowledge at all. If you explain through the picture you prepare, people may understand. Else, they mix Shiv and Shankar. Baba has explained about Subtle Region that it is all about visions. There is no bones and flesh. Visions happen. There is also complete Brahma. The present vyakt(corporeal) Brahma will become Avyakt. The same vyakt becomes Avyakt. His picture is kept at Subtle Region. Children go to Subtle Region. They say baba gave us shoobiras to drink. Now, there is nothing like trees, etc. It would be in heaven. But it is not that baba brings it from heaven and gives. It is all about visions. Now, children know that we have to return home.

Through Brahma Baba the soul does not become a yogi, because ...

PBK propaganda. See the Murli point- viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2624&p=50120&hilit=chaahe#p50120 ShivBaba has kept Dada - as very next to HIM. Of course, BOTH (Sakar and niraakaar) are required. That is what Baba says.

When we go from the clan of Shudra to the clan of Brahmin, it is again not a matter of the body. We don't change the body, the soul changes, the mindset changes. In the same way it is not a matter of changing the body for to go to deity clan. Brahmin is incomplete stage, the stage fluctuates, goes up and down, mala of Brahmins cannot be prepared, but when the effort reaches maturity, when it becomes complete, in one second the soul changes from Brahmin to deity clan. It is not a matter of changing the body, the soul changes, the mindset changes.

Reply anticipated, as the Murli point can be taken either way to some extent (either favoring BKs or PBKs). But, the twisting nature of PBKs is CLEARLY visible and they FAIL even in their own perspective.
---According to PBKs, the present body changes. They believe the present body becomes kanchan-kaaya, is it not? They even believe all their rudrmala souls- their body will undergo GENDER CHANGE (as required) and become males, (and vice-versa - in case of their vijayamala souls).
---So, if PBKs believe the soul/mindset has changed when it comes from Shudra to braahmin, the change in body from braahmin to deity is EVEN MORE, is it not?- Not only the bodies become young, pure, but also the gender itself can change!]

The important point in the point about Shankar being next to Shiv is that it is said that Baba has to do service from that form, Baba has to come and do service from the form of Shankar. That is why he is next to Shiv.

OK, let us agree. I have no objection. But, has any PBk so far said- when Mr Dixit plays role of Shankar? When Narayan, when Brahma? When Prajapita?
[Because Murli point clearly says- Shankar and Vishnu cannot be Prajapita, Shankar and Vishnu cannot be wife/Chariot of God" ].
So, first of all, take all the Murli points, not just isolated ones. More PBKs try to justify their claims, more faults are seen in their clarifications.
--Mr. Dixit should had tried to prove himself as Shankar. But, unfortunately, Mr Dixit tried to project himself as not only Shankar, but also all BVS, Narayan, Krishna, Ram, ShivBaba, etc, etc. Where would that lead to?

[sita]

I don't say there is no need for effort. In the point it is said that the Father makes the soul a yogi. The Father makes it. Where in the interpretation you have given the Father makes the soul a yogi.

[mbbhat]

Where in the interpretation you have given the Father makes the soul a yogi?

Father ShivBaba (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God) ONLY makes a soul yogi. ShivBaba is REAL Father of ALL SOULS, is it not?

[I thought you would be knowing that (the BK point of view). I also had mentioned the balance between 'Niraakaar' (ShivBaba) and 'Sakar' (B Baba), which clearly implies balance between Father/Sun of Knowledge (in INCORPOREAL form of Supreme Soul), and Mother/Moon of Knowledge (corporeal embodied soul of B Baba, in INCORPOREAL form of Soul)].

[sita]

Father ShivBaba (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God) ONLY makes a soul yogi.

How?


= RESPONSE =
This has ALREADY been CLARIFIED, IN DETAIL, in earlier post, in this topic, dated 14 Apr 16 -
viewtopic.php?f=2&p=51403#p51300

CONCERNED viewers should, by now, be aware that there are, IN EFFECT, TWO DIFFERENT HALVES of the 'Kalp Vraksh' or Spiritual 'Cycle Tree', (with 'APPARENTLY' TWO DIFFERENT Spiritual Seeds), EACH having their own followers, using the VERY SAME Versions in the SMs and AVs to present their respective views, but, IN EFFECT, promulgating TWO DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES - ONE BEING REAL and the OTHER BEING APPARENT - the SEED of ONE being Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, propagating the PURE & UNADULTERATED Knowledge through His 'mukrar-rath' of REAL Prajapita Brahma, BB or soul of DLR; and the 'Seed' of the OTHER being Ravan or Maya, (MASQUERADING as APPARENT 'ShivBaba', APPARENT 'Ram', etc. - being the 'Ishwariya Rup' or Godly Form or Ravan or Maya), influencing the propagation of the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED, REVERSED advanced knowledge, through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, (MASQUERADING as APPARENT 'Prajapita Brahma, APPARENT 'Shankar, etc.).

Thus, since the followers of EACH of the above TWO DIFFERENT ideologies, are STILL in the process of making spiritual efforts; and since the followers in EACH of the above TWO DIFFERENT ideologies, would STILL be NUMBER-WISE, in their respective, FINAL Spiritual STATUS - it would NOT BE POSSIBLE for any follower of any one ideology to READILY APPRECIATE the viewpoint of any follower of the other ideology, (in the interim period - as long as EACH GROUP of followers remains TOTALLY ATTACHED to their OWN ideology, to the COMPLETE REJECTION of the other), since the CORE REFERENCE POINT or the 'SEED' itself, of EACH, is DIFFERENT!

[sita]

Points about the confluence aged Lakshmi and Narayan:

“Lakshmi-Narayan are called God-Goddess, it means, they have received this inheritance through God.” (Mu.07.02.76, end of the middle part of pg.1)

In Hindi God-Godess is Bhagvan – Bhagvati. Bhagvan-Bhagvati is title of the Confluence Age. In the Golden Age titles are devi-devta.

“When these Lakshmi and Narayan were alive, there was happiness and just happiness. People of all the religions worship them; people call [their kingdom] the Garden of Allah.” (Mu.02.10.70, middle of pg.3)

It is in the Confluence Age that people of all the religions are present, so they remember that and worship their form in the Confluence Age.

“You have to become Brahmins here (in this birth) [and] you will also be made [into] deities here itself.” (Mu.27.02.76, end of pg.3)

The Golden Age divine sovereignty which has been mentioned as the birthright, whose birthright is it? Of the Brahmins, isn’t it? And whose children are the Brahmins? The children of Brahma. When do they become that? In the Confluence Age. The Brahmins in the Confluence Age receive the Divine birthright, the right that is obtained through the birth from God.

“You have to become Brahmins here, you will also be made deities here itself.” (Mu.27.02.76, end of pg.3)

“The Father is the Creator of heaven, so, He will certainly give the inheritance of heaven itself and He will certainly give in hell.” (Mu.08.06.68, beginning of pg.1)

“You children have to become complete with all the virtues, perfect with 16 celestial degrees here.” (Mu.25.03.74, end of pg.1).


= RESPONSE =
From the analysis, provided in the RESPONSE, in the preceding post -
viewtopic.php?f=2&p=51403#p51325 ,
the INFERENCES provided in respect to the relevant Murli Versions above, by a PARTICULAR GROUP of followers, CANNOT be REFUTED OUT-RIGHT, since same serve the purpose of PROMOTING the ideology of that particular CONCERNED GROUP, to their OWN advantage - which, by itself, should be considered to be ACCURATE, within the frame-work of this EWD!
Taking this aspect ALSO into consideration, the following CLARIFICATIONS are being provided, NOT with the aim to TOTALLY REJECT the inferences of the CONCERNED GROUP, but to provide an opportunity to CONCERNED viewers to APPRECIATE a DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, presented herein.

“Lakshmi-Narayan (of Satyug or Golden Age) are called God-Goddess, it means, they have received this inheritance (of being the HIGHEST Sovereigns in Golden Age) through God. (in their PREVIOUS birth, in the Confluence Age - since God is NOT REQUIRED or DOES NOT GO to the Golden Age to give them their inheritance of Sovereignty THERE, and since they have ALREADY qualified themselves for that STATUS in their PREVIOUS birth, in the Confluence Age, when God Himself is present).”
(Mu.07.02.76, end of the middle part of pg.1)
(This Version DOES NOT AT ALL IMPLY that there exist Conf Aged Lakshmi and Narayan, as DELUSIVELY claimed by Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs. Symbolic titles of Confluence Age 'R&K' and 'Lakshmi and Narayan' can ONLY be apportioned to Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama or the souls of DLR & Om Radhe, and NONE OTHER).
Viewers may also like to review the post below, in this regard -
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&start=90#p51356

“When these Lakshmi and Narayan were alive (in Satyug or Golden Age), there was happiness and just happiness. People of all the religions worship them (SIMPLY because THESE VERY SOULS, who hold the HIGHEST OFFICE of Lakshmi and Narayan in G A, are ALSO instrumental to establish EACH & EVERY MAJOR RELIGION on the Path of Devotion, 'Bhaktimarg' or Ravan Rajya); people call (their Kingdom, in Satyug or Golden Age) the Garden of Allah.” (Mu.02.10.70, middle of pg.3)
(This Version DOES NOT AT ALL IMPLY that there exist Conf Aged Lakshmi and Narayan, as DELUSIVELY claimed by Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs. Symbolic titles of Confluence Age 'R&K' and 'Lakshmi and Narayan' can ONLY be apportioned to Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama or the souls of DLR & Om Radhe, and NONE OTHER).
People of ALL religions, who are STILL present in the IRON AGE, DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING about the Confluence Age, AS YET; hence the question of ALL religions worshiping Lakshmi and Narayan DOES NOT ARISE. The PROMINENT souls who are instrumental to establish EACH & EVERY MAJOR RELIGION on the Path of Devotion, receive the Knowledge from God, in the Confluence Age, and are making efforts to achieve their respective positions in G A and S A, ONCE AGAIN!

“You have to become Brahmins here (in the Confluence Age); you will also be made (RECEIVE YOUR QUALIFICATIONS TO BECOME) Deities (of Satyug or Golden Age) here (in the Confluence Age) itself (God MAKES the Deities of Satyug or Golden Age in the Confluence Age ITSELF, since God DOES NOT GO or is NOT REQUIRED to go to Satyug or Golden Age to MAKE Deities THERE).” (Mu.27.02.76, end of pg.3)
(This Version DOES NOT AT ALL IMPLY that there exist Conf Aged Lakshmi and Narayan, as DELUSIVELY claimed by Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs. Symbolic titles of Confluence Age 'R&K' and 'Lakshmi and Narayan' can ONLY be apportioned to Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama or the souls of DLR & Om Radhe, and NONE OTHER).
ONLY the Righteous Children of Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God receive their BIRTH-RIGHT of Golden Aged DIVINE SOVEREIGNTY, i.e. to be the PRINCIPAL SOVEREIGNS of Golden Age, in the Confluence Age ITSELF, through His ONE & ONLY 'mukrar-rath' of REAL Prajapita Brahma, BB or soul of DLR, and NONE OTHER - FIRST, in 'Sakar', until 1969; and THEN, in 'Akar', after 1969, to date!!!

“You have to become Brahmins here (in the Confluence Age), you will also be made deities (of Satyug or Golden Age) here (in the Confluence Age) itself. (God DOES NOT GO to the Golden Age to MAKE them Deities THERE).” (Mu.27.02.76, end of pg.3)
(This Version DOES NOT AT ALL IMPLY that there exist Conf Aged Lakshmi and Narayan, as DELUSIVELY claimed by Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs. Symbolic titles of Confluence Age 'R&K' and 'Lakshmi and Narayan' can ONLY be apportioned to Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama or the souls of DLR & Om Radhe, and NONE OTHER).

“The Father is the Creator of Heaven (of Satyug or Golden Age), so, He will certainly give the inheritance of Heaven (of Satyug or Golden Age) itself, and He will certainly give in hell (in the previous birth of the Deities of Golden Age, when they are in the Confluence Age, at the VERY END of the Iron Age or Hell).” (Mu.08.06.68, beginning of pg.1)
(This Version DOES NOT AT ALL IMPLY that there exist Conf Aged Lakshmi and Narayan, as DELUSIVELY claimed by Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs. Symbolic titles of Confluence Age 'R&K' and 'Lakshmi and Narayan' can ONLY be apportioned to Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama or the souls of DLR & Om Radhe, and NONE OTHER).

“You (Righteous) Children (who have to become the PRINCIPAL Sovereigns in Satyug or Golden Age) have to become complete with all the virtues, perfect with 16 celestial degrees HERE (in the Confluence Age, ITSELF - since God DOES NOT go to the Golden Age to MAKE them COMPLETE & PERFECT, THERE).” (Mu.25.03.74, end of pg.1).
(This Version DOES NOT AT ALL IMPLY that there exist Conf Aged Lakshmi and Narayan, as DELUSIVELY claimed by Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs. Symbolic titles of Confluence Age 'R&K' and 'Lakshmi and Narayan' can ONLY be apportioned to Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama or the souls of DLR & Om Radhe, and NONE OTHER).

THUS, it is CLEARLY EVIDENT that EACH & EVERY VERSION, of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, has been TOTALLY & COMPLETELY MISINTERPRETED, MISREPRESENTED & MISAPPROPRIATED by the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya, Virendra Dev Dixit, followed by the BLIND PBKs - to be instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap & Ravan Rajya, in Confluence Age!

[sita]

Some more points about the confluenced aged Lakshmi and Narayan :

“Now, everyone will say that certainly, the birth of these Lakshmi and Narayan is like a diamond.”
(Mu. 05.02.67, beginning of pg.1)

(Like a diamond is our spiritual birth in the diamond age.)

“Lakshmi-Narayan have certainly obtained the kingship in the previous birth in the Confluence Age. Lakshmi-Narayan themselves are in this last birth after experiencing 84 births. Who gave the kingdom to Lakshmi-Narayan? There will certainly be some giver, won’t there? So, this proves that God will definitely have given [the kingship], but how did He give it? The Father sits and explains how they became Emperor and Empress in the beginning of the Golden Age.” (Mu.21.04.72, beginning of pg.3)

(Here also it is said that Lakshmi and Narayan have obtained the kingship in the Confluence Age. To obtain means that they must have become emperor and empress, when God is present. Has Brahma Baba obtained kingship in his lifetime, in the Confluence Age? Is it possible that Subtle Brahma obtains kingship? Are there subtle kings?)

There was this discussion and someone was asking for point that Lakshmi and Narayan become Ram-Sita.

“Now we know, we ourselves become Lakshmi-Narayan. We ourselves will become Ram-Sita.” (Mu.25.05.72, end of the middle part of pg.3)

“There is the rule of Lakshmi-Narayan in the Golden Age. Then they themselves rule in the Silver Age as well.” (Mu.09.11.72, beginning of the middle part of pg.3)

On the picture of Lakshmi and Narayan it is written that their rule is for 2500 years. It means not only for the Golden Age, where there is the dynasty of Lakshmi and Narayan, but these Lakshmi and Narayan also rule in the Silver Age, that is why it is said for 2500 years and not 1250 years.

Mbbhat was providing some points that the era begins, counts from the soul of Krishna (his birth), but here it is said that it is counted when he sits on the throne. Era is counted from Lakshmi and Narayan (of the Confluence Age).

“Krishna’s name is so famous. His Father is not famous at all. Where is his Father? He (Krishna) will certainly be a king’s child, won’t he? [...] When Krishna exists, there aren’t [any] sinful ones present. When they completely perish, this one sits on the throne [and] takes his kingdom. It is from then that the era (samvat) begins. The era begins from Lakshmi-Narayan themselves.” (Mu.29.01.71, end of pg.3)


= RESPONSE =
From the analysis, provided in the RESPONSE, in an earlier post -
viewtopic.php?f=2&p=51403#p51325 ,
the INFERENCES provided in respect to the relevant Murli Versions above, by a PARTICULAR GROUP of followers, CANNOT be REFUTED OUT-RIGHT, since same serve the purpose of PROMOTING the ideology of that particular CONCERNED GROUP, to their OWN advantage - which, by itself, should be considered to be ACCURATE, within the frame-work of this EWD!
Taking this aspect ALSO into consideration, the following CLARIFICATIONS are being provided, NOT with the aim to TOTALLY REJECT the inferences of the CONCERNED GROUP, but to provide an opportunity to CONCERNED viewers to APPRECIATE a DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, presented herein.

“Now, everyone will say that certainly, the birth of these Lakshmi and Narayan (of Satyug or Golden Age, which birth, is like 'GOLD', in the Golden Age, and) is like a Diamond (in the Confluence Age, since THESE VERY SAME Lakshmi and Narayan of Satyug or G A, RECEIVE THAT inheritance DIRECTLY from God WHEN THEY THEMSELVES are in their PREVIOUS BIRTH in the Confluence Age, which is considered as their DIAMOND BIRTH).” (Mu. 05.02.67)

“Lakshmi-Narayan (of Satyug or Golden Age) have certainly obtained the Kingship in the previous birth, in the Confluence Age (since God DOES NOT go to Satyug or Golden Age to give them the 'Kingship', THERE). (The VERY SAME SOULS of) Lakshmi-Narayan (of Satyug or Golden Age) THEMSELVES, are in this last birth (in Confluence Age), after experiencing 84 births (at the VERY END of Iron Age). Who gave the Kingdom to Lakshmi-Narayan (of Satyug or Golden Age)? There will certainly be some Giver, won’t there? So, this proves that God will definitely have given (the Kingship), but how did He give it? The Father (REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God) sits (in His ONE & ONLY 'mukrar-rath' of REAL Prajapita Brahma, BB or soul of DLR) and explains (through his LOTUS Mouth - Version spoken by God, prior 1969) how they (very first Lakshmi and Narayan of G A - Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama, or souls of DLR & Om Radhe) became Emperor and Empress in the (VERY) BEGINNING of the Golden Age (they received THAT inheritance DIRECTLY from God, in Confluence Age, and NOT in G A).” (Mu. 21.04.72)

Here, it is CLEARLY DECLARED by God, HIMSELF, that Lakshmi & Narayan (of Satyug or Golden Age) have obtained their Kingship, in their PREVIOUS BIRTH, in the Confluence Age. NO ONE has PRACTICALLY become Emperor and Empress, AS YET! Brahma Baba has FULLY QUALIFIED HIMSELF to obtain the Kingship of G A, as the VERY FIRST PRINCE of G A, and hence the VERY FIRST EMPEROR of G A, in the Confluence Age, ITSELF, in the DIRECT PRESENCE of God! VERY MUCH CONTRARY, to what Virendra Dev Dixit has TREACHEROUSLY TRICKED the BLIND PBKs into DELUSIVELY believing, that Brahma Baba is 'DEAD' - Brahma Baba has ONLY left his OUTER garment of the corporeal body, and is VERY MUCH OPERATING on this CORPOREAL SPHERE, in his SUBTLE BODY, (VERY MUCH MORE SPEEDILY & EFFICIENTLY than when he was constrained by his corporeal body), ALONG WITH ShivBaba or God, and the TWO of THEM CANNOT be separated from EACH OTHER even for ONE MOMENT!

“Now we know, we ourselves become Lakshmi-Narayan. We ourselves will become Ram-Sita.” (Mu. 25.05.72)

The VERY SAME souls who hold the HIGHEST OFFICE of Lakshmi and Narayan in G A, will ALSO hold the HIGHEST OFFICE of R&S in S A. Nothing complicated or ambiguous in this Version at all!

“There is the rule of Lakshmi-Narayan in the Golden Age. Then they themselves rule in the Silver Age as well.” (Mu. 09.11.72)

The VERY SAME souls who hold the HIGHEST OFFICE of Lakshmi and Narayan in G A, will ALSO hold the HIGHEST OFFICE of R&S in S A. Nothing complicated or ambiguous in this Version at all!
Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, has already stated in several SMs, that the souls of Brahma Baba and Saraswati Mama, who become the VERY FIRST Lakshmi and Narayan in G A, will, in later births, interchange their Male & Female costumes, to hold the HIGHEST OFFICE AGAIN!
Saraswati Mama becomes the FIRST Ram of S A and Brahma Baba becomes the FIRST Sita of S A, later during the Cycle.

“Krishna’s (the FIRST prince of G A, the FIRST Emperor of G A - the soul of REAL Prajapita Brahma, BB or DLR) name is so famous. His (physical or corporeal) father IS NOT FAMOUS AT ALL. Where is his (corporeal) father? He (Krishna - soul of DLR) will certainly be a king’s Child, won’t he? (although the corporeal father of Shri Krishna of G A, will be a king - but NOT an EMPEROR - he is NOT FAMOUS, because he was not AS CLEVER as Shri Krishna of G A, and hence he achieved a much LOWER STATUS than Shri Krishna of G A [...] When Krishna exists (WHEN HE ASCENDS THE THRONE), there aren’t (any) sinful ones present. WHEN they completely perish, THIS ONE (soul of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or DLR) sits on the throne (and) takes his Kingdom. It is from then that the era (samvat) begins. The era begins from (VERY FIRST) Lakshmi-Narayan (of Satyug or G A - souls of DLR & Om Radhe) themselves.” (Mu. 29.01.71)

It becomes ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that NONE of the above Versions IMPLY that there exist Conf Aged Lakshmi and Narayan, as DELUSIVELY claimed by Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs. Symbolic titles of Confluence Age 'R&K' and 'Lakshmi and Narayan' can ONLY be apportioned to Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama or the souls of DLR & Om Radhe, and NONE OTHER.

[sita]

Father ShivBaba (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God) ONLY makes a soul yogi.
How?
= RESPONSE =
This has ALREADY been CLARIFIED, IN DETAIL, in earlier post, in this topic, dated 14 Apr 16 -
viewtopic.php?f=2&p=51403#p51300

You have not explained anything.

Father makes children a yogi by himself giving his own introduction. For Yoga we need knowledge. Even mother Brahma is not able to give the introduction of the Father. Father himself has to come and introduce himself and make the children yogis.

The process of making someone a yogi is through knowledge, practical coming into contact and making someone become co-operative in the task.

Yoga is said to be love. We cannot love or hate a point of light. A point of light does not have qualities. We love or hate corporeal personalities.

We love those who bring us benefit. There is only one supreme Father who is benefactor to all. It is said that our's is easy remembrance. We remember face to face. Whatever we see, we remember. In the Murli, it is said that those who used to come into contact with the corporeal one, find remembrance to be very easy. We need to have full introduction of the Father, with his name, form, place, time and acts.

The BKs put pictures of Dadi Gulzar and propagate that the corporeal form of God is this one now. God is not in a female form, but they see this, so they remember this.

One who is co-operative becomes yogi. Wherever our body goes, wherever our mind goes, wherever our money goes, our mind goes there. If we invest our money with human beings we will remember human beings. If we cooperate with human beings we will remember human beings. It is not a matter of feelings and attitude. People have made actions in the name of God for many births, but God was not there. Only when he comes in a corporeal, practical form and he manages the money with his Shrimat will our money be successful. If human beings manage our money, they will use it wrongly. If we surrender our body to the authority of humans we will become their subordinates. If we surrender to one, corporeal, practical Father, we become free from bowing down to others, but the Father also makes us equal to himself. Human beings will make us as high as their level, at the most.

Those who have come in contact with Brahma Baba are considered great yogis. Whatever we remember we become the same, same is our faith. Brahma Baba was having the intoxication that he will become a prince in the Golden Age, so it is very difficult to explain to people who are attached to him and are his firm followers that we have to change in this life itself. Even if it is clearly mentioned in the Murli, they are, not able to understand it, because their aim is to follow Brahma Baba and leave the body.

The Father makes us yogis in the form of the Father, not in the form of the mother, that is Brahma Baba. The form of Brahma Baba is the form of the cool moon of knowledge. Through the form of the mother the milk of knowledge is only narrated, not explained. The role of the Father, teacher who explains, and the guru, is played through one personality, that is not Brahma Baba. Yogi souls cannot receive a heart attack.

CONCERNED viewers should, by now, be aware that there are, IN EFFECT, TWO DIFFERENT HALVES of the 'Kalp Vraksh' or Spiritual 'Cycle Tree', (with 'APPARENTLY' TWO DIFFERENT Spiritual Seeds), EACH having their own followers, using the VERY SAME Versions in the SMs and AVs to present their respective views, but, IN EFFECT, promulgating TWO DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES - ONE BEING REAL and the OTHER BEING APPARENT - the SEED of ONE being Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, propagating the PURE & UNADULTERATED Knowledge through His 'mukrar-rath' of REAL Prajapita Brahma, BB or soul of DLR; and the 'Seed' of the OTHER being Ravan or Maya, (MASQUERADING as APPARENT 'ShivBaba', APPARENT 'Ram', etc. - being the 'Ishwariya Rup' or Godly Form or Ravan or Maya), influencing the propagation of the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED, REVERSED advanced knowledge, through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, (MASQUERADING as APPARENT 'Prajapita Brahma, APPARENT 'Shankar, etc.).

Thus, since the followers of EACH of the above TWO DIFFERENT ideologies, are STILL in the process of making spiritual efforts; and since the followers in EACH of the above TWO DIFFERENT ideologies, would STILL be NUMBER-WISE, in their respective, FINAL Spiritual STATUS - it would NOT BE POSSIBLE for any follower of any one ideology to READILY APPRECIATE the viewpoint of any follower of the other ideology, (in the interim period - as long as EACH GROUP of followers remains TOTALLY ATTACHED to their OWN ideology, to the COMPLETE REJECTION of the other), since the CORE REFERENCE POINT or the 'SEED' itself, of EACH, is DIFFERENT!

The BKs have closed their doors for the PBKs. They don’t think their God is God to all, and the benefit of everyone will happen trough him. They have started propagating two gods. But we should not generalize like this, I know many BKs who are sensible. Golden Heart is making a negative advertising of the BKs. I suggest he uses his own name and also avoid generalizing. If a pbk says something here, we cannot draw a conclusion about the Advance Party, there are all types of PBKs. Similarly whatever Golden Heart says, we shоuld not take it too seriously. The difference is that it is not so easy to find out the BK stand so clearly, there are differences of opinion in the BKWSU itself. But whatever is said about the advance knowledge, it could be verified.

and since they have ALREADY qualified themselves for that STATUS

How do we qualify? What does it mean? To qualify means to become of that quality, is it not? To imbibe the qualities, to become it. Or will it be enough if souls just promise ... OK Baba, we promise, in the Golden Age we will be deities, now let us go. No. If we don’t imbibe the qualities here and now, if we don’t create these sanskars now, from where will we have them in the Golden Age. And if we imbibe these qualities now, then we would have become that.

If to qualify meant only to have it in the mind that I will become that still, when we will become that? In the Golden Age? Baba has said so many times to not wait for time and not think that when the time comes we will make effort, we will become. If we don't become now, we would never become.

THESE VERY SOULS, who hold the HIGHEST OFFICE of Lakshmi and Narayan in G A, are ALSO instrumental to establish EACH & EVERY MAJOR RELIGION

This is some new knowledge that you propagate. Do you say Lakshmi & Narayan become instrumental to establish each and every major religion, or have I got it wrong?

hence the question of ALL religions worshiping Lakshmi and Narayan DOES NOT ARISE.

Such question may not arise in your mind, because you must not be accepting the Murli. In the murl point i have quoted it is clearly said that souls of all the religions worship Lakshmi & Narayan. Those who speak against the Shrimat from the Murli are Ravan community. The souls of other religions remember the souls of Lakshmi & Narayan, as Adam and Eve. And no, it is not a matter of the Golden Age. How would the souls of the other religions know about them in the Golden Age? In the scriptures of the other religions also, Adam and Eve are there in Heaven, and God is also there. This heaven is the heaven of the Confluence Age, where God is there. And the recognition about who are the souls of Adam and Eve is there only in the Confluence Age, not even in the Golden Age.

This Version DOES NOT AT ALL IMPLY that there exist Conf Aged Lakshmi and Narayan, as DELUSIVELY claimed by Veerendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs. Symbolic titles of Confluence Age 'R&K' and 'Lakshmi and Narayan' can ONLY be apportioned to Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama or the souls of DLR & Om Radhe, and NONE OTHER)

Baba has said ... when the truth reveals, falsehood opposes. You can write one and the same thing again and again, so as to prevent people to perceive the truth. But truth will win.

“You (Righteous) Children (who have to become the PRINCIPAL Sovereigns in Satyug or Golden Age) have to become complete with all the virtues, perfect with 16 celestial degrees HERE (in the Confluence Age, ITSELF - since God DOES NOT go to the Golden Age to MAKE them COMPLETE & PERFECT, THERE).” (Mu.25.03.74, end of pg.1).

You were not able to give any reply here. You become 16 celestial degrees here. What does it mean. If here we become 16 celestial degrees, what will we would have become? A deity, is it not?

Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, has already stated in several SMs, that the souls of Brahma Baba and Saraswati Mama, who become the VERY FIRST Lakshmi and Narayan in G A, will, in later births, interchange their Male & Female costumes, to hold the HIGHEST OFFICE AGAIN! 
Saraswati Mama becomes the FIRST Ram of S A and Brahma Baba becomes the FIRST Sita of S A, later during The Cycle.

Certainly, we know that. But if Brahma Baba is in a male body in the first birth of the Golden Age, interchanging female and male bodies, if there are 8 births in the Golden Age, he will again be in a male form in the first birth of the Silver Age. The account becomes correct only if there are 9 births in the Golden Age, the 9th one being the one of the Confluence Age.

If Lakshmi and Narayan become Ram and Sita, who is Ram who is being mentioned in the Murli, for whom it is said that he failed so he received the throne of the Silver Age, for whom it is said that he will become servant of Radha and Krishna in the Golden Age? Who is this Ram, if Brahma Baba becomes Ram.

VERY MUCH CONTRARY, to what Veerendra Dev Dixit has TREACHEROUSLY TRICKED the BLIND PBKs into DELUSIVELY believing, that Brahma Baba is 'DEAD' - Brahma Baba has ONLY left his OUTER garment of the corporeal body, and is VERY MUCH OPERATING on this CORPOREAL SPHERE, in his SUBTLE BODY, (VERY MUCH MORE SPEEDILY & EFFICIENTLY than when he was constrained by his corporeal body), ALONG WITH ShivBaba or God, and the TWO of THEM CANNOT be separated from EACH OTHER even for ONE MOMENT! 

You may say that the soul of Brahma Baba is very much present there and active, etc. We also believe the same. But the involvement in the BKs he has is negligible. He is not practically managing the family, nor is his advice sought for any matter, practically it is the human beings who are in charge of the BKs, not God.

Even when they gather, the intoxication the BKs receive is from their own big gathering, rather than from the meeting, it is from the pomp and the show.


= RESPONSE =

IT WOULD BE FUTILE TO EVEN TRY TO EXPLAIN THE SUBTLEST ASPECTS OF THE KNOWLEDGE TO SOULS WITH CORRUPTED & INVERTED INTELLECTS, LIKE MAHA-MURKH Virendra Dev Dixit, AND THE EQUALLY 'MAHA-MURKH', BLIND PBKs, SINCE ONE WOULD FIND ONESELF GOING IN 'CIRCLES' ALL THE TIME, WITH NOTHING ACHIEVED IN THE BARGAIN! NO ATTEMPT IS BEING MADE TO EXPLAIN THESE ISSUES TO THEM, AND THE CLARIFICATIONS ARE NOT DIRECTED AGAINST THEM, AT ALL! SUCH CLARIFICATIONS ARE ONLY MEANT FOR GENUINE SPIRITUAL SEEKERS, WHO DESIRE TO CHURN ON THE DEEPER ASPECTS OF THE PUREST KNOWLEDGE OF GOD! HENCE CONCERNED PBKs ARE REQUESTED TO IGNORE SAME, SINCE SAME ARE NOT MEANT FOR THEM OR DIRECTED AGAINST THEM!

[mbbhat]

How?

What 'MYSTERY' is there in this? By " UNCORRUPTED & UNADULTERATED Knowledge". ShivBaba gives PURE, UNADULTERATED Knowledge through Brahma. Shiv does not ride the 'Chariot' the whole day long. So, Brahma also has his own unique role.

Father makes children a yogi by himself giving his own introduction. For Yoga we need knowledge. Even mother Brahma is not able to give the introduction of the Father. Father himself has to come and introduce himself and make the children yogis.

Who has denied this? But, Baba has also said- even Brahma can teach you. - Post No. 53- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... y&start=60

Yoga is said to be love. We cannot love or hate a point of light. A point of light does not have qualities. We love or hate corporeal personalities.

That is PBk belief, based on their body-consciousness, and the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED, REVERSED advanced knowledge, propagated through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya, Virendra Dev Dixit, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', 'Prajapita Brahma', 'Shankar', etc., etc., etc. - CLARIFICATIONS of which are being provided on this forum REGULARLY, for the benefit of concerned viewers.

We can ONLY love a 'POINT' of Light, IF we ourselves are ALSO stabilized in the consciousness of our own selves as a 'Point' of Light. But, it is true that we can NEVER hate a 'POINT of Light', because of the UNMISTAKABLE, OVERWHELMING EXPERIENCE of TRUE LOVE, PEACE & BLISS. Because original quality of soul (point of light) itself is TRUE LOVE, PEACE, BLISS, etc. But, to Love a 'POINT' of Light, one has to FIRST EXPERIENCE oneself as a 'Point' of Light ALSO, and ONLY THEN can one have such REAL Spiritual EXPERIENCES.

SM 17-3-89(2):- Jab kisi ko samjhaate ho toh bhee aise samjho- hum bhaayiyon ko samjhaate hain. Yahee drushti rahe- ismey hee bhaaree mehnath hai. Mehnath se hee oonch pad miltaa hai. Baap bhee aise dekhenge. Baap kee nazar bhee bhrukuti ke beech may jaayegi. Atma toh chotee bindi hai. Sunti bhee vahee hai. Tum Baap ko bhee bhrukuti ke beech may dekhenge. Baap bhee yahaan hai to bhaayi (Brahma ki atma) bhee yahaan hai. AISEY BUDDHI MAY RAHNE SE TUM BHEE GYAAN SAAGAR KE BACHCHE GYAAN SAAGAR BAN JAATE HO. Tumhaare liye toh bahut sahaj hai. Gruhasth vyavahaar may rahnevaalon ko yah avasthaa zaraa mushkil hai. Sunkar ghar chale jaate hain. Vahaan kaa vaataavaran hee aur hai. Yahaan sahaj hai. Baba yukti bahut sahaj bataate hain. APNEY KO ATMA SAMJHO, BAAP KO Yaad KARO. YAH BHEE BHAAYI HAI. IS DRUSHTI SE KARM BANDHAN SE ATEET HO JAAYENGE. SHAREER BHEE BHOOL JAATAA HAI. SIRF BAAP HEE Yaad RAHTAA HAI. ISMEY MEHNATH KARTE RAHENGE TAB PASS WITH HONOUR HONGE. AISEE AVASTHAA MAY VIRLAA HEE KOYI RAHTAA HAI. VISHW KAA MAALIK BHEE VAHEE BANTE HAIN. 8 RATNON KEE MAALAA HAI NA. To purushaarth karnaa hai. Oonch pad paanevaale kaise bhee karke purushaarth zaroor karte honge. ISMEY DOOSREE KUCH BHEE BAATEIN NIKALTEE NAHEEN HAI. Bhaayi2 ki drushti sneh aur sambandh ho jaataa hai. Drushti vah jam jaatee hai. Isliye baap kahte hain tumko bahut guhy2 baatein sunaataa hun. Ismey abhyaas karnaa mehnath kaa kaam hai. Yahaan bhee baithay ho toh apney ko atma samjho. Atma hee suntee hai. Sun_ney_vaali atma ko tum dekhte ho. -104- [Yaad, Gyan, PBKs, Kings, PM, mala]

= ....In this stage (bhaayi-bhaayi = point form 'soul conscious'-stage), no other matter emerges. The brother-brother drushti becomes loveful and (natural) relation.

If according to PBKs, brother- brother said here is not for the incorporeal point of light form, but for corporeal body forms, then according to PBKs, through corporeal- there can be both love and hate. If both are there, how can there be just love? There would also be hate in their Yaad, is it not?

We love those who bring us benefit. There is only one supreme Father who is benefactor to all. It is said that our's is easy remembrance. We remember face to face. Whatever we see, we remember. In the Murli, it is said that those who used to come into contact with the corporeal one, find remembrance to be very easy. We need to have full introduction of the Father, with his name, form, place, time and acts.

If remembrance is very easy, then why not PBKs are not yet complete? [BTW- Murli point says- remembrance is very easy, as well as very difficult- both].

The BKs put pictures of Dadi Gulzar and propagate that the corporeal form of God is this one now. God is not in a female form, but they see this, so they remember this.

No. Gulzar Dadi is dummy there. Even if she is remembered, it will not be futile. But, would be of lower level. As one progresses, one will then step to higher level automatically. If continuous honest effort is put, automatically, the lock of intellect will open, and the child will step to higher level of Yaad.

Yogi souls cannot receive a heart attack.

There is also a Murli point which says- heart attack is an easiest way to leave the body. The last experience of Brahma Baba is wonderful - Post No. 116 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ack#p12438