Identical World Events every 5K "Godly" year-units

[diogenes]

Where do simple Cycles fit in nature apart from mechanical functions?

From large, observable phenomena (planets cycling our sun) to the smallest (protons and electrons cycle the nucleus in an atom), the mechanics and nature of our universe we see is cyclical. The weather seasons cycle. The spinning (cycle) of the earth provides our day/night cycle. The moon's cycle affects the tides. Women's menstrual periods cycle. These are laws of interdependent nature in time. Einstein postulated that space/time is curved, that if you threw a line out into space it would eventually return on itself (circle/cycle).

All Gyan is saying is that the universe (and everything in it) is in a cycle of time.

[fluffy bunny]

From large, observable phenomena (planets cycling our sun) to the smallest (protons and electrons cycle the nucleus in an atom), the mechanics and nature of our universe we see is cyclical. The weather seasons cycle. The spinning (cycle) of the earth provides our day/night cycle. The moon's cycle affects the tides. Women's menstrual periods cycle. These are laws of interdependent nature in time. Einstein postulated that space/time is curved, that if you threw a line out into space it would eventually return on itself (circle/cycle).

Hello Diogenes, welcome on board! Always nice to have new atmic energy in the forum. If you are an ex-, it'll be great to hear your story when you are ready.

OK ... I hear what you are saying, so don't think I am putting you down. I just want to get to the bottom of all this.

• • Sub-atomic and space-time I am not so hot on but if we look at planetary cycles they wobble and they are eliptical. From my basic science e.g., I think it take 28,000 years for the earth to complete some kind of cycle to get back to where it started and by that time, if you were to draw it out, it would look like a ball of wool.
  • Weather, each season is different from the next one in sequence. None are identical. I think that goes back to what the brother is saying, is it a cycle or is it the circumference of a progressing spiral or tunnel passing through space-time.
  • Menstrual cycle, in name alone. Sure, I get the connection with the moon but they start a zero and ends as zero and mine are never a regular 28 days.
  • Spinning atoms ... I don't know. Do they change and slow down over time?

It appears to me that at each level and within each there is variation and that variation expands over a possible eternal time to vast randomnesses. We have the idea of entropy within the material universe ... no BK has ever squared up for me how it is all mean to rise from its lowest state to it highest state. Or taking the BK hypotheses, translated as "Shiva does *SOMETHING*", no one has explained how energy passed from the Supreme Soul into matter ( ... or why the Supreme Soul does not deplete).

"The Grand Unified Theory of Gyan" is still waiting there to be written.

[tinydot]

Sub-atomic and space-time I am not so hot on but if we look at planetary cycles they wobble and they are eliptical. From my basic science e.g., I think it take 28,000 years for the earth to complete some kind of cycle to get back to where it started and by that time, if you were to draw it out, it would look like a ball of wool.

Meaning, our planetary system is not on a plane, not flat! The planetary systems and galaxies themselves are moving outwards from the center of the universe at an unimaginable speed. And so there will be slight variation on the revolution of every body around another body (like the sun).

• Spinning atoms ... I don't know. Do they change and slow down over time?

You mean spinning electron??? Try introducing a reactive element, and see what happens to that atom. It becomes a molecule with different molecular orbital. Try introducing a cosmic ray to a spinning atom, and see how its parts (electrons, protons and neutrons) get knocked off.

The absolute nature of cyclic mechanism maybe possible only in an isolated system. E.g. A SINGLE spinning hydrogen proton in "space". No gravity, no EM force, no magnetism, no other flying subatomic particles. Yeah, the spinning proton might be undergoing a "perfect" cyclic spin. Do you think such system exists? Of course not.

If our universe is isolated, then it is possible for it to undergo cyclic changes in terms of mass and energy contents as defined by E=Morning Class^2. Cyclic changes are abstract concepts, mathematical profiles of changing quantities. It is like fitting all those "data points" and coming up with a "regression curve" that resembles a sine wave, i.e. a perfect cycle.

All other systems (galactic, planetary, global, atomic and subatomic) are OPEN, and therefore, it cannot remain "cyclic" forever in their own "little cycles". You see we are talking of relative cycles here that are functions of time.

Cyclic is relative on how you want to view things. If it is a reality that the universe will undergo BIG CRUNCH, then BIG BANG, then BIG CRUNCH, then BIG BANG, ad infinitum, then TRULY you can say you have an "absolute cyclic phrase" - BIG CRUNCH-BIG BANG cycle!

The cyclic model is purely mathematical, an abstract concept, or philosphical. It is a representation of a change where the beginning meets the end through eternity.

[diogenes]

Hello Diogenes, welcome on board! Always nice to have new atmic energy in the forum. If you are an ex-, it'll be great to hear your story when you are ready.

Hi ex-l, I've posted some of my tale in the Honour Roll thread.

OK ... I hear what you are saying, so don't think I am putting you down. I just want to get to the bottom of all this.

I don't think you're putting me down by questioning. I'll just tell you what I know.

And before I begin - while most of us here are ex BK, I am an ex BK who doesn't feel the need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I know a lot of what I learned regarding the meditation and knowlege is profoundly valuable. I couldn't come to terms with where the Brahmin Family is at on my two occasions. I don't know what that says about me in the scheme of things, and I've learned not to care. I don't feel the need to 'belong', though it would have been nice, and I don't feel the need to ever again put myself in a position where I am at the mercy of their system of family. I don't blame Baba/God for human failings either.

• Sub-atomic and space-time I am not so hot on but if we look at planetary cycles they wobble and they are eliptical.

Whether their plane changes or they wobble is immaterial. The thing here is that they represent point to point cycles in time.

From my basic science e.g., I think it take 28,000 years for the earth to complete some kind of cycle to get back to where it started and by that time, if you were to draw it out, it would look like a ball of wool.

The significant thing is, it's in the process of cycling throughout the time available.
The earth getting back to exactly where it started from is not important in the universal scheme (so its scenario is academic in that regard). When the universe is ready to turn to light again, it does so . I'll address that in more detail later.

• Weather, each season is different from the next one in sequence. None are identical. I think that goes back to what the Brother is saying, is it a cycle or is it the circumference of a progressing spiral or tunnel passing through space-time.

The seasons cycle. None is an identical season to the last (entropy) but they keep cycling throughout the Kalpa.

• Menstrual cycle, in name alone. Sure, I get the connection with the moon but they start a zero and ends as zero and mine are never a regular 28 days.

Irregular cycle, is still a cycle, point to point, longer or shorter.

• Spinning atoms ... I don't know. Do they change and slow down over time?[/list]It appears to me that at each level and within each there is variation and that variation expands over a possible eternal time to vast randomnesses. We have the idea of entropy within the material universe ...

Entropy, exactly. The spiritual vibration and material vibration degrade interdependently, hand in hand, hence the yuga cycle.

The story of Adam and Eve being cast from God's presence in the garden of Eden is folklore remembering the catastrophic shift from the end of Silver Age (our Deity consciouness depleted) into Copper Age (our worship consciousness - Bhagat- beginning ).

no, BK has ever squared up for me how it is all mean to rise from its lowest state to it highest state. Or taking the BK hypotheses, translated as "Shiva does *SOMETHING*", no one has explained how energy passed from the Supreme Soul into matter (... or why the Supreme Soul does not deplete).

I put the question to a soul I knew who was rarely around, being feted in Madhuban much of the time, but who I knew had access to the information. I remember asking
"If the earth goes through a transformation each 5000 years, what happens to things like the voyager space probe which left our galaxy (or was about to at the time I think). His answer was as above, " the universe turns to light" and 'It's the seed of our pure Yoga power which does it". I thought I'd done well enough to get a specific answer and did not bug him for further details. I'd understood mind over matter for a long time. I did some churning to apply it to Gyan and a universal scale.

Shiva does his thing throughout 'Confluence' Age. On us. He cannot do anything by himself, only if we're connected to him. He's incorporeal, we're the one's affecting the corporeal realm.

ShivBaba doesn't 'deplete' because, being in the incorporeal realm, he is not subject to material decay/entropy. He is subject to time, which is why he becomes actively 'awake' during the confluence. He is part of the universal drama cycle, and plays his role.

We change the matter of the universe by the purifying of our consciousness, and it only takes the particular level of our vibration to achieve it.

As you'll remember from the Murli, souls of impure vibration cannot enter the period of pure vibration/light in the cycle (they have to remain in the incorporeal realm until their vibration is harmonius with matter). Just as so, degraded Iron Age has a particular vibration point where it cannot withstand the seed of intensely pure consciousness. This is what Baba has been trying to get us to do. We are (whoever is connected to him) the seed that splits the universal atom.

ShivBaba/God is the source. That's his role from the incorporeal realm. This is why when you meditate you are a world server. And (as the action/reaction- Law of Karma denotes) as a world server at this level, you will be served by the world you helped create, numberwise and according to effort.

If/when you are able to accept that the relationship between consciousness and matter is the key, the 'science' of it all becomes secondary to a large extent. Personally, I enjoy the science of it as a form of entertainment. The dinosaur question is one I am interested in getting into discussion about.

I hope this info is of help to you ex-l.

[diogenes]

So, how does the star get put back there for the same time next cycle?

Here's a short quote from the 'Electric Universe 'site of Australian Physicist, Wal Thornhill, on how stars are formed. I found it a really good read;

• The Electric Universe

"Plasma physicists argue that stars are formed by an electromagnetic "pinch" effect on widely dispersed gas and dust. The "pinch" is created by the magnetic force between parallel current filaments that are part of the huge electric currents flowing inside a galaxy. It is far more effective than gravity in concentrating matter and, unlike gravity, it can remove excess angular momentum that tends to prevent collapse. Stars will form like beads on a wire until gravity takes over."

If this is, in fact, how stars are formed it goes someway to providing an answer to your question. I imagine at 'power up' (beginning of each cycle) all those stars form at their identical points between the current filaments, throughout the universe.

[fluffy bunny]

Here's a short quote from the 'Electric Universe 'site of Australian Physicist, Wal Thornhill, on how stars are formed. I found it a really good read.

Ha! A Velikovskian. Could be interesting ... I am always willing to doff my hat to a heretic, especially one whose work exhibit how members of particular academic disciplines reacted to ideas from workers from outside their field.

Excuse me if other responsibilities, and a lack of grounding in orthodox science, carry me away from pursuing this topic but I will be interested to read others thoughts though.

[tinydot]

If this is, in fact, how stars are formed it goes someway to providing an answer to your question. I imagine at 'power up' (beginning of each cycle) all those stars form at their identical points between the current filaments, throughout the universe.

There is no doubt stars are formed in the universe, it is a fact. Whatever theory that indeed governs the formation of stars, is not really the question. But to imagine how they would form as ascribed by the cyclic concept, that to me is a hopeful thinking [for now].

Does the guy (Thornhill) think cyclically or psychically?

[fluffy bunny]

The absolute nature of cyclic mechanism maybe possible only in an isolated system. E.g. A SINGLE spinning hydrogen proton in "space". No gravity, no EM force, no magnetism, no other flying subatomic particles. Yeah, the spinning proton might be undergoing a "perfect" cyclic spin. Do you think such system exists? Of course not.

I have been "churning" on this and I think the strong reaction I have is against circles not cycles.

The way the BKWSU teaches the 5,000 very much is a flat circle, see e.g. Vishnu with the chakra on his finger and the posters of "The Cycle". Of course, the conceptualization and graphic tools of analysis in India in the 1930s and 40s were highly limited but these have been converted, albeit space age airbrushing and Photoshop, into the Stone Tablets of BK Gyan.

Of course our world is made up of Cycles (we are not so sure about either the cosmos or the quantum). It may be that we are just at a level of "cycle consciousness" and that cycles are all we can perceive. But not perfect, symmetrical circles. The crude BK mentality seems to love and see most beauty in classical order and symmetry ... including the Supreme Clock's 5,000 years not-a-second-longer-or-a-second-shorter's ticks ... and all those Hindu doo-dahs and bobbly bits.

In the hydrogen, and other atoms, it is the electron that spins and, no, it does not spin in a perfect flat circle or sphere either. It constantly modifies its orbit infinitely, infinitesimally and possibly even eternally to describe its shell. It can also be manipulated by something as simple as microwaves ... or arguably human consciousness.

Shiva is suggesting that whilst all of collective human consciousness can affect matter at a sub-atomic level and in his opinion create heaven on earth out of hell, it cannot escape this realm or alter the immanenet, inevitable and desired Destruction escaping the repetition of an identical 5,000 year Cycle. Despite the failures in the prediction of this and other details in the past.

I think the point tinydot is raising is about the seasons constantly changing. I am saying that the sub-atoms are always changing. The quantum is seething and mass appearing inand out of it at random. What evidence is their for perfectly repetitive circles? It would seem the Buddha is more online with his "everything changes forever" maxim.

Now if we think of the BK Cycle, why is it represented as a neat and tidy circle rather than, say, a 3 dimensional downard spiral of the Golden Mean? What does the symbolic value of the equal sided circle? I remember Shiva Baba have a ***** that it was not him that put together all of the images, I am not sure if this refered to the major teaching aids or not. I think he was pointing the finger at a Ramesh but need to check the references.

The other issue you raise of open via closed sytems is a separate issue. Entropy is not a simple, inescapable one way downwards track. The BK "Universe Turns to Light Theory" (or pure energy) theory is the only thing that I could accept as being a possible scenario and we have raised it here before. But is it limited to this particular area of space-time? It is a very far cry from what the BKWSU has been and is still teaching and believes. What are we going to have? All of the universe turned to light EXCEPT for India?!?!

• • This then raises another issue. If the teaching of The Cycle is not true and accurate, what else is not true and why are the Seniors keeping the juniors in darkness ... or do they just not know either?

Whose idea was this? It sounds like Charlie's. To me it is just another pat answer to perform the same purpose as the first one whilst sustain the same unquestioning faith in the magic number. What magic that number has interests me.

[tinydot]

I have been "churning" on this and I think the strong reaction I have is against circles not cycles.

I think the definition of "perfect cycle" is a closed path (point to point) that is repeated identically in time. Walking in a circle is a cycle, walking in ellipse is a cycle, and walking in a square is a cycle. Assuming you trace exactly the paths, then they become "perfect cycles".

And ex-l is correct, BKs tend to think of a circle. See Jagdish book, Eternal Drama part 2. He did not like the concept of ellipse, i think. Mathematically speaking, an ellipse is convertible to a circle by changing the x,y coordinate system.

A cycle is a mathematical concept. In physical reality, we use this "concept of cycle" to fit the points in the path and come up with a closed loop (whether circle, ellipse, or etc.).For example:

The elliptic revolution of planet earth around the sun, 365.24... days ago to the present, COMPARED to the future elliptic revolution from present to 365.24...th day. If we pulled out those two ellipses, we can say there is some "degree of randomness" and those two ellipses are NOT made up "fine curves" on a plane (mathematically speaking). More like a probability functions like that of an electron orbital.

If the earth axis is going to tilt a little, then that "elliptic revolution path" is screwed-up and the more the path becomes "open" and no closed loop occurs (meaning no cycle). In reality it is not even a "perfect cycle" but we can use the "mathematical concept of cycle" to describe the phenomenon.

To say that the coming of days are cyclic is OK but bear in mind they are not perfect not even a closed loop in space and time.

To say that the coming of years are cyclic is OK but again they are not perfect and may not be closed either.

Now, BKs assert that the "5000 years" stretched is a "perfect cycle", that is, the "loop" is going to close only at the 5000th year AND all the 5000 year loops are identical.

Of course our world is made up of Cycles (we are not so sure about either the cosmos or the quantum).

Perhaps, but reality confirms they are not "perfect cycles" AND MAY NOT BE A CLOSED LOOP in space and time. I believe every "physical cycle" is only an approximation of a true "mathematical cycle". They can even be totally annihilated and re-created like the electron knocked off from an atom by an X-ray, and another electron comes in.

I think the point tinydot is raising is about the seasons constantly changing. I am saying that the sub-atoms are always changing. The quantum is seething and mass appearing inand out of it at random. What evidence is their for perfectly repetitive circles? It would seem the Buddha is more online with his "everything changes forever" maxim.

Only belief for the 5000 year "perfect cycle" (closed loop as well as closed mind). And correct, Buddha's concept seems to me better.

Now if we think of the BK Cycle, why is it represented as a neat and tidy circle rather than, say, a 3 dimensional downard spiral of the Golden Mean? What does the symbolic value of the equal sided circle? I remember Shiva Baba have a ***** that it was not him that put together all of the images, I am not sure if this refered to the major teaching aids or not. I think he was pointing the finger at a Ramesh but need to check the references.

Mathematical simplicity simplifies reality. But it seems to me a highly complex mathematical probability defines the reality.

The other issue you raise of open via closed sytems is a separate issue. Entropy is not a simple, inescapable one way downwards track. The BK "Universe Turns to Light Theory" (or pure energy) theory is the only thing that I could accept as being a possible scenario and we have raised it here before. But is it limited to this particular area of space-time? It is a very far cry from what the BKWSU has been and is still teaching and believes. What are we going to have? All of the universe turned to light EXCEPT for India?!?!

In my opinion, Entropy Increase is a localized phenomenon, not observable and may not occur in the universal cosmic level. I may change this opinion in time. I believe though we can organize our planet (decrease in entropy) by putting our minds and bodies to work to highly reduce the amount of chaos both physically and spiritually.

[paulkershaw]

Paul's Reflection of the Day:

In terms of this thread, I've been wondering if the 5,000 year cycle as taught by the BKWSU is actually a memory of a similar cycle of time that occured in a parallel universe such as mentioned herein. Other 'identical' solar systems seem to exist alongside ours as can be read by clicking on this link:

• Solar system resembles our own

So, let's 'presume' that a specific planet in another 'solar system' carried particular energy of life and it took the inhabitants 5,000 years to raise their consciousness and awareness. Then, in order to 'assist' other systems of life, they began beaming it out into their universe, the rays of which then crossed over into our solar system and, hey, bingo! Dada Lekhraj was sitting around one day and suddenly got pulsed with this 'enlightening' information and presto! 'I saw God today' becomes the order of the day. When one is 'carrying' this kind of spiritually beamed energy, one will certainly obtain many friends, followers and fanatic. When you pass, you continue to channel through one of your followers and still promote that which you know and have been promoting until you passed on, but its all still coming from another world or solar system ...

[sparkal]

It is good to churn, uncover new ideas and possibilities, but I suspect most people are tired of living in a world of lies and would maybe like to just be taken to the punch line in what may be turning out to be a complete joke. A world of conflict, full of twisted corrupt individuals.

There is no attraction towards getting involved with anyone as long as there is conflict. There is no doubt many fancy names for conflict within the Brahmin dictionary, some may even justify it , but none of them cut it with me any more, only the cards on the table will suffice. What a nonsense all this is. A game? What sort of game is it then? Are games not supposed to be fun? Where is the fun in ever increasing conflict, greed, or should that be poverty, and what is being done about it?

Who is holding up change? It is time to locate that which is holding everything up because this is rubbish. So, what are you all doing about it? Making money? Great idea. Don't complain to the BKs if you are not willing to do something. And you organisations? Are you all enjoying the role playing? Maybe its time that the boat was rocked.

Don't get me wrong, I am not suffering that much at the moment, I have just had enough of living in a lie. Falsehood out of supposed necessity. Who enjoys lies then? Let us here from you all out there who enjoy living in a world of lies? It stinks. Official lies stink the most.

It is time to locate and remove the liars of this world whoever and wherever they are because this whole game is over. The only way is up, how much more can you all take of this lie? Do you all enjoy lies then? Should we just leave things as they are? Stinking rotting lies.

I cannot stand these ruling creatures any longer. The whole game stinks.