Traditional view of Bramans by Hindus

[fluffy bunny]

None really ... except that it dispelled the myth that all caste born Brahmins are selfish, egotistic, abusers etc. What a wonderful man.

By giving up ordinary charity, and consider how difficult ordinary altruism is on its own, BKs and PBKs are taking a very big gamble which if '2036' does not happen.

I think back to when I was a BK and how ugly I became honestly around thinking that by trying to encult other people into the religion, and sitting around having stupid egotistical service meetings to arrange public events whose main purpose was self-promotion, I was in some way "serving" the world and doing a "higher service" than simply helping the poor. I would have been doing more good rescuing cats.

[Roy]

None really ... except that it dispelled the myth that all caste born Brahmins are selfish, egotistic, abusers etc. What a wonderful man.

Yes, i was moved by the video of his charitable work.

By giving up ordinary charity, and consider how difficult ordinary altruism is on its own, BKs and PBKs are taking a very big gamble which if '2036' does not happen.

It is very interesting that you use the word gamble here fluffy Bhai; because if I am not mistaken,the meaning of the 5 Pandavas playing dice in the scriptures, is that they gambled everything on God.

I think back to when I was a BK and how ugly I became honestly around thinking that by trying to encult other people into the religion, and sitting around having stupid egotistical service meetings to arrange public events whose main purpose was self-promotion, I was in some way "serving" the world and doing a "higher service" than simply helping the poor. I would have been doing more good rescuing cats.

This is also another interesting point, and a valuable one too. I am sure we all have either experienced this via our own actions, or witnessed others, who were all too ready to dive into "service" at the drop of a hat; even though they may still be very weak in understanding knowledge, and not have the necessary skills or qualities to do it properly. Baba has said, that merely giving lectures, does not constitute true service; it's also about the quality of your spiritual stage. If we look at the Trimurti picture, and look at the four ornaments that Vishnu is holding, we see that before we get to true service, which is represented by the conch, and the sweet sound it creates on being blown; we have to become full of deep understanding of knowledge, represented by the Chakra. By having accurate powerful remembrance of God, represented by the Mace; we literally club our sins into oblivion. Knowledge and Yoga together, are the two wings of the soul, that allow us to become detached, which is represented by the third ornament, the Lotus Flower... a flower that flourishes in mire or dirt, but does not itself become sullied by its impure environment. Only when we are in a state of true detachment, can we inculcate divine virtues, that then allow us to be a true serviceable soul, or a living service centre.

The truth is, there are precious few souls that have achieved this stage even now, but as you say fuffy Bhai, we have the arrogance of believing we are doing great service, just by repeating what we believe is accurate knowledge, no matter what the actual state of our mind is, and this is encouraged by the BK leadership. This was the reason myself, and other souls, were summoned in front of Dadi Janki back in the late 80s; because we refused to toe the line in this.

Roy

[fluffy bunny]

It is very interesting that you use the word gamble here fluffy Bhai; because if I am not mistaken,the meaning of the 5 Pandavas playing dice in the scriptures, is that they gambled everything ...

Yes, and they lost and end up even more lost in the woods.

You could use that metaphor but I think from an AK point of view, you need to be careful in the timing of it.

Note that rather then be some "high class" superior type, what this Brahmin did for a living was be a cook or chef. Not many Westerners will know this, but that is quite traditional profession for many brahmins. Many brahmins are quite poor. They say 55% of Brahmins live below the poverty line (10% more than average). In AP, for example, 75% of cooks and domestic help are Brahmins.

They suffered a sustained attack by the British from the 19th Century onwards, from Christian missionaries, who obviously want to replace them in the social order, and the politicians and military, who feared their intelligence and influence. This is where the roots of Western concepts of them come from. Propaganda, which the BKWSU have layered on top, their own propaganda.

The Collector of Tanjore stated that “there was no class (except Brahmins ) which was so hostile to the English.” The predominance of the Brahmins in the freedom movement confirmed the worst British suspicions of the community. Innumerable CID reports of the period commented on Brahmin participation at all levels of the nationalist movement. In the words of an observer, “If any community could claim credit for driving the British out of the country, it was the Brahmin community. Seventy per cent of those who were felled by British bullets were Brahmins”.

In the attempt to rewrite Indian history, Brahmins began to be portrayed as oppressors and tyrants who wilfully kept down the rest of the populace. Their role in the development of Indian society was deliberately slighted. In ancient times, for example, Brahmins played a major part in the spread of new methods of cultivation (especially the use of the plough and manure) in backward and aboriginal areas. ... But far more important was the Brahmin contribution to the integration of society.

From this article here: http://ifihhome.tripod.com/articles/mj002.html

[sita]

I have seen one discussion VCD about the building in Kampil, that there is a plan that on the first floor there will be shops. Baba says that people at Kampil say that you don't do anything about us. They don't take unlimited benefit, so at least they can have this that good quality grain can be sold cheaply.

Why not for free? There is something over-demonstrated with this over caring for the poor and outcast people. Some posing with this and through such attitude they may even start feeling worse later, because they start thinking that, oh, look at us, we are so poor and down, we are in so bad state, these people are so good and become dependent on help and have low self-esteem. Instead one should be made to get up and stand on his feet. If someone likes to live and lives in the way he lives, it is result of his own actions. Everything is possible and everything is subject to change. One need to be inspired to change. Charity is possible only when there is object of the charity. One can feed people for some days, or even for life, what is the benefit if they don't change. Though caring for them as they are, you say that you are OK as you are, i even need you, because i feel great in your eyes. Instead if one looks at the down people with equal vision and desire to uplift them as anyone else, they may be happy that someone sees them as normal people. We don't go and hug normal people on the streets in such a way. They don't seem to feel some lack of love etc. and live as they wish, with their own idea of how to live, untill one day someone comes to tell them that in what a bad state they are. Indeed external help is needed and one has to have some external image through which to compare so that to realize where he is, but along with the realization of our bad state, if thee is no alternative for upliftment or if the only solution is to be object of charity, it is some supression.

One can make parallels that, we are impure and Baba says - remember only me and you will becomepure from impure, there is no other method, but there is the emphasis on effort. Our upliftment is based on our won effort. We only have the ideas of how to do it, but it is we who have to do it, because we are the ones who will reap the results of our own actions. And if we look here, the one doing charity is creating good account of good deeds, and the one taking will have to return. That's why the first charity is to make people reaalize their own responsibility for their own selves, actions and destiny and that there is no reason for complain, but there is a way to be uplifted.

[Sach_Khand]

Satya's note: This group of BK/PBK are not exposed to traditional views of Hindus. They are mostly unaware of the cultural richness of India. They go by some silly stories in Puranas and find fault with Hinduism- so that their own cults are justified. Here is a higher view of Hinduism-Brahman practices from a very educated and cultured person. This article is especially important for westerners to understand the richness of Indian culture and heritage. The BK/PBK cults may not agree with the views expressed here, but at least let them know the views. Best wishes and patient reading. This article is from another group. This is only for the sake of information.
Satya.

*IMPORTANCE OF BRAHMANISM IN SOCIETY*

Dr Thirumala Raya Halemane, 13 Eagles Pass, Princeton, NJ 08540
...
...

Kabir said,

"Jati na puchiye Sadhu ki, Puch lijiye Gyan;
Mola karo talwar ka, pada rahane do myan."

Some of the respected Rishis and Munis of Hindus were,

1) Vyasa - fisherman's son,
2) Valmiki - belonged to hunter tribe,
3) Agastya - Kabbila,
4) Durvasa - shoe-maker,
5) Kashyapa - blacksmith,
6) Koundinya - barber,
7) Sankhya - svapacha,
8) Narada - Washerman,
9) Vashishta - acrobat,

None of the above are Brahmins.

God Ram and Krishna of Hindus are not Brahmins but Kshatriyas.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.