Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

[shivshakti]

It would be naive to say what SM says in just one statement. Sakar Murli is not a one liner book. It is huge ocean of knowledge. It is also stated several times that ShivBaba is mat-pita, sirf pita kehne se Maa ke pyar se vanchith ho jaoge aur Maa ke bina pita kaise patha chaltha.

I would advice not to waste your time chasing after Virendra Dev Dixit's soul. I am already regretting for having wasted all along therefore alerting others not to waste. Just for the benefit of doubt why not try to focus on Jagadamba Saraswati Maa and get a feel of her as ShivBaba.

The X-PBKs mean that they have been PBK's before ---meaning we have already considered the ordinary form as Father and have been in the yatra with him untill something changed in the intellect which triggered that the ordinary form is not the real bap.The wonder is that that the ordinary form is actually playing the role of Maya, pehle Maya apne jaal me pasatha hai phir Dukh detha hai isliye kaha Maya-Ravan. Please do not take it personally as it hurts to know someone pointing as Maya when u trusted as ShivBaba but we have our own intellects that think differently and we need to respect that " Ek ka part na mila doosre se".

I am afraid we wont qualify to state anything in the X-PBK section without any Murli or Avyakt Vani points. Its better we quote them instead of stating what comes in our minds.

Shivshakti

[Roy]

It is also stated several times that ShivBaba is mat-pita

And you would get no argument from me about this... for who actually plays the roles of mother and Father in this Drama. Is it not Father Shiv, using the bodies of the main hero actors, Ram(Virendra Dev Dixit) and Krishna(DL)?

Roy

[pbkindiana]

shivshakti wrote:
It would be naive to say what SM says in just one statement. Sakar Murli is not a one liner book. It is huge ocean of knowledge.

The whole knowledge is contained in Sakar Murlis and when it is said that Saraswati is the daughter of Prajapita Brahma, yet you are giving her the status of ShivBaba, it denotes your ignorance of such a great sermon of Shiva.

I would advice not to waste your time chasing after Veerendra Dev Dixit's soul. I am already regretting for having wasted all along therefore alerting others not to waste. Just for the benefit of doubt why not try to focus on Jagadamba Saraswati Maa and get a feel of her as ShivBaba.

I cannot be like others chasing dead bodies and remembering dead bodies to the extent the intellect too becomes dead. If you feeel that being with Baba Dixit-ShivBaba is a waste of time, then it is an indication that you have given invitation to Maya and allowed her to entertain you. I rather focus my attention to the living Father than giving attention to the dead daughter when it is said in SM that we receive inheritence through Prajapita Brahma and never has it been said that inheritence is received through Saraswati Om Radhey.

The X-PBKs mean that they have been PBK's before

Yes everyone knows that.

---meaning we have already considered the ordinary form as Father and have been in the yatra with him untill something changed in the intellect which triggered that the ordinary form is not the real bap.The wonder is that that the ordinary form is actually playing the role of Maya, pehle Maya apne jaal me pasatha hai phir Dukh detha hai isliye kaha Maya-Ravan. Please do not take it personally as it hurts to know someone pointing as Maya when u trusted as ShivBaba but we have our own intellects that think differently and we need to respect that " Ek ka part na mila doosre se".

If someting has triggered your belief and faith towards a dead body, then it is only the work of Maya beti. Even in lokik life, we do not get entangle with dead bodies, then it is weird to remember someone who has already been dead for decades and expecting to receive inheritence through a dead body.

I am afraid we wont qualify to state anything in the X-PBK section without any Murli or Avyakt Vani points. Its better we quote them instead of stating what comes in our minds.

Just to remind you that the references of "ShivBaba is Father's role only" and "A mother has no part in ShivBaba's role" that I have posted are from SM, whereas you and shivsena are unable to produce a single SM quote that states ShivBaba is equal to Shiva + Om Radhey's soul.

indie.

[Sach_Khand]

Shankar is also a deity. They have then combined Shiva and Shankar. Now Father says, “I have entered into this body.” Therefore, you say Baap-Dada, but they say Shiv-Shankar. They don't say Shankar-Shiv. They say Shiv-Shankar. [11-2-75]

The above point says that The combination for whom you (children) say as Baap-Dada, to The same combination they (in Bhakti marg) say Shiv-Shankar.
And the next sentences are there to confirm that Who is entering and in whom. Baap is entering in Dada and not the other way.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[Roy]

A few points regarding Shiv Shankar, BapDada, and in which world the murtis play their instrument roles...

"Do not be afraid: Backbone BapDada(Father Shiv+Avyakt Brahma Baba-DL), will be revealed through some person(Shankar-Prajapita-Ram) when the time comes; and to some Brahmins(co-operative seed souls. who had recognised at this time, 1975; that Shiv had entered Baba Dixit-Shankar, along with Avyakt Brahma), He is being revealed even now." [Av 16.1.75]

“If Shankar(Baba Dixit) hadn't existed (in corporeal form), they wouldn’t have combined us(Trinetri Shiv and Avyakt Brahma Baba-DL, the Moon of Knowledge) with Shankar. (On the path of Bhakti) They prepared the picture(of Shiv Shankar or Lord Shiva); that means they combined Me(Father Shiv) with Shankar(Baba Dixit-Ram). They call him Shiva-Shankar Mahadev... hence Mahadev becomes the greater one(Shankar is the greatest deity, no 1 Brahmin - Baba Dixit).” [Mu 26.06.76, 16.02.73]

"Whatever has been written in Gita, Bhagwat, Mahabharata can be compared with (whatever is happening) now(in the Confluence Age)." [Mu 19.04.73]

"The subtle(soul conscious) Deities, Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar, have their temples in the physical world, because they come to play their part(role in a corporeal body) here(on earth)." [Mu 25.6.73]

"You children know, that the one whose memorial is built, would definitely have come on this earth(to play a role in a physical body) at the Confluence Age." [Mu 05.09.05]

“The Subtle Region has to be created here(in the corporeal world; through our powerful soul conscious stages).” [Mu 22.11.72]

“There is no history and geography of the Subtle Region. The Subtle Region and so on is in the path of the religious devotion(Bhakti). There is nothing (like this) in the path of knowledge. It doesn’t matter that you go to the Subtle Region, have visions and see the four-armed one there. You have (seen) it in pictures (anyway), haven’t you(so there is no gain at all in going there simply to see the same)? Hence it has sat in the intellect. So, one will certainly have the visions. But there is nothing like this(in reality; the true Subtle Region is created here on earth, via our powerful soul conscious stages).” [Mu 12.05.69]

N.B. The sections in brackets, are interpretations based on Advance Knowledge.

Roy

[Sach_Khand]

Dear Roy,
I am just reminding you of what you have writen in the post " Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes? ", page:6, and I quote you below.

on date:19 sept. 2011:
With regard to the post you have highlighted; i did actually start to answer the questions you presented; but then remembered what i had said about interacting with you on here, and so stopped what i was doing. ... ... ... ... in light of what i've said here and our past history, i am reticent about re-engaging with you.

And later you wrote to my reply,

on date 21 sept. 2011:
Okay sanjeev Bhai, your response has only confirmed for me, that i should have continued to ignore you, rather than remind you, why i am ignoring you.

So, I request you to delete my quote which you have used in your above reply. I do not want to interact with you since you are not willing to exchange views with me on Murli points.
You are free to give as many Murli points you want and in whatever fashion you want. But do not quote me henceforth and also delete my quote in your above reply.

My request to admin is that if Roy does not delete then please delete my quote which is made by Roy in his above reply. Thank you.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[Roy]

So, I request you to delete my quote which you have used in your above reply. I do not want to interact with you since you are not willing to exchange views with me on Murli points.You are free to give as many Murli points you want and in whatever fashion you want. But do not quote me henceforth and also delete my quote in your above reply.

Okay Bhai, that is a fair compromise. I shall no longer quote you, if I am not responding to you directly; and i shall remove the quote from my above post.

Roy

[Sach_Khand]

Avyakt Vani point:
"Do not be afraid: Backbone BapDada, will be revealed through some person when the time comes; and to some Brahmins, He is being revealed even now." [Av 16.1.75]

IMO, in the above point we need to pay attention to "The backbone Bap-Dada". It is said that Bap-Dada will be revealed through some person and was being revealed to few Brahmins even at that time.

Now read the following Murli point: [dt. 11-2-75]
Shankar is also a deity. They have then combined Shiva and Shankar. Now Father says, “I have entered into this body.” Therefore, you say Baap-Dada, but they say Shiv-Shankar. They don't say Shankar-Shiv. They say Shiv-Shankar.

From the above point we can derive that Bap-Dada are none other than Shiv-Shankar of the Bhakti marg people.

And so when we use the above conclusion (as given in the Avyakt Vani point above) it means that Bap-Dada or Shiv-Shankar was getting revealed to few Brahmins at that time and will be revealed through some person when the time comes. It is nowhere said that revealation is through a person "Shankar". But it is actually Shiv-Shankar or Bap=Dada that will be revealed.

So, we can say that Shankar is not the person through whom revealation takes place but it means that the combined form of Shiv-Shankar/ Bap-Dada gets revealed.

But what does revealation means?
In the same point it is said that Bap-Dada/ Shiv-Shankar Is already being revealed to few Brahmins at that time.In my opinion, it means the understanding of Bap-Dada or Shiv-Shankar is clear to few Brahmins and are hence sanmukh of Bap-Dada/ Shiv-Shankar.

And the point also means that some person will get the prize for surrendering himself to Bap-Dada/ Shiv-Shankar so that Bap-Dada can get revealed throught that person when the time comes.

Who is that person and when will that time come is not clear in the above AV. point.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[Roy]

A few more points on this topic...

"Today, Baapdada also had to become a foreigner, especially for the foreigners(the handful of early PBKs, who had recognised that BapDada was entering Prajapita-Ram at this time in 1975). Incorporeal(Shiv) and subtle(Avyakt Brahma Baba) fathers had to take the support of corporeal form(Prajapita-Ram) to see the hopeful group and to meet (them) in the corporeal form." [Av 2.08.75]

"Actually, Brahma(Baba-Dada Lekhraj) becomes Vishnu(in one second - on becoming complete-karmateet at the end). Shankar is called Dev-Dev-Mahadev because Shankar(Ram-Baba Dixit) is next to Shiva(bapsaman). Brahma(Baba-DL) and Vishnu(Mama Saraswati) take rebirth(in the Golden Age, as Krishna and Radhe), but Shankar(Ram) doesn't(becomes World Emperor Narayan in this very birth i.e. Nar to Narayan, & survives final world destruction, to become physical parent along with Empress Lakshmi(Sita-Sister Vedanti), of Radhe-Krishna). ShivBaba is subtle. Similarly Shankar is also subtle(totally soul conscious-bapsaman at the end)." [Mu 29.9.77]

"Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are His(Shiv's) children. All the children of the incorporeal Father(Shiv) are incorporeal souls. They come down here(on earth) and adopt (physical)bodies." [Mu 21.8.99]

"Brahma(Baba-DL) is not the mouthborn progeny of Shiv(he is the mouth born progeny of Adi Brahma-Gita Mata-Jagadamba). ShivBaba comes and enters in this one(Brahma Baba in 1946/7 in Karachi - when he reaches the age of 60) and makes him His own. This one(Brahma Baba) is also a creation(spiritual birth of first class child, Krishna, in the beginning of the Yagya) . First He(Shiv) creates Brahma(Adi Brahma-Jagadamba-World Mother) and not Vishnu(Sita-Adi Radhe). It is even sung – Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. It is not said – Vishnu, Shankar and Brahma. First Brahma(Adi Brahma-Jagadamba) is created. Brahma’s(Dada Lekhraj's) occupation(role) is different (to hers). All these matters are to be understood. He(Shiva) is called – You are my mother and Father. So He is incorporeal isn’t He? So, mother(Brahma Baba-Krishna) and Father(Shankar-Ram-Baba Dixit) are required in corporeal form; only then do they ask – Is there a mother of Mama(Om Radhe)? It will be said – Yes; Brahma(Adi Brahma-Gita Mata) is Mama’s(Om Radhe's) mother as well. Brahma(Adi Brahma-Jagadmata-World Mother) does not have any mother. Since this mother(Brahma Baba-Krishna) is not a female, Saraswati(Om Radhe) is called Mama." [Mu 26.10.07]

"When there are two unlimited fathers(Shiv & Prajapita-Ram), then there should be two mothers also surely. One is Jagdamba(Gita Mata), secondly this Brahma(Baba-DL) is also a mother." [Mu 3.02.78; 8.02.78]

“Two forms of Vishnu, Lakshmi-Narayan, rule the kingdom(Ramraj-Heaven, which commences in the Confluence Age - the four souls of Ram, Sita, Krishna & Radhe, form the first family unit of the Golden Age after 2036 when Radhe-Krishna, are born as twin siblings, to Ram-Sita at this time).” [Mu 6.09.92]

“Father alone establishes the pure family cult after coming down on earth. That is why four arms have been shown for Vishnu - Parvati(Sita) with Shankar(Ram), and Saraswati(Radhe) with Brahma(Krishna).” (This imformation was written on the original Trimurti Picture, but was removed later, as it was not understood at the time) [Mu 23.01.90]

"Kumarka(Dadi Prakashmani), tell me how many children does ShivBaba have? Some say 5 billion, some say one child Brahma(Baba-DL). Is Shankar(Prajapita-Ram-Baba Dixit) not the child of Shiva? Then whose child is He? I say that ShivBaba has 2 children... one is Brahma(DL) who becomes Vishnu, and other is Shankar(Prajapita-Ram). That makes two. Why do you leave out Shankar? Both are part of Trimurti, but their occupation is different(mother-Brahma & Father-Shankar)." [Av 16.5.77]

"Vishnu & Shankar cannot be called as sinners, Brahma is a sinner."(This point is saying, Brahma Baba does not achieve purity whilst playing the role of Brahma in Sakar, whilst the other two souls, Shankar-Ram-Baba Dixit, and Vishnu-Sita-Sister Vedanti do) [Mu 7.05.77]

"You know (that) two fathers(Shiv & Prajapita-Ram) are there. From two you get inheritance. Then there is no third(person). From Brahma(Dada Lekhraj) we do not get any inheritance." [Mu 1.02.68]

"ShivBaba bestows inheritance to Brahmakumaris and Brahmakumars through Prajapita Brahma(Father of Humanity-Ram). ShivBaba creates the Brahmin race through Brahma(Mother-Dada Lekhraj)." [Mu 1.03.76]

"Brahma(DL) who has ascended to the Subtle Regions, cannot be called Prajapita(Ram) - Creation is done in the Corporeal World - not in the Subtle Regions. So the creator Prajapita has to be in the Corporeal World". [Av 05.11.92]

"Prajapita Brahma(Baba Dixit) is very great, is not it? He is called next(bapsaman) to God(Shiv)". [Mu 20.11.76]

"Father has explained that Shankar(Baba Dixit) does not have so much of a role to play(he spends most of his time in remembrance-seed stage). He is next to Shiva(achieves no 1 position-bapsaman)." [Mu 8.03.76]

"Highest Father should enter in the highest person(Prajapita-Ram-Baba Dixit, who becomes bapsaman or next to Shiva). People(BKs) think that Shri Krishna(i.e. Brahma Baba, who did not attain the incorporeal stage whilst still in the body - which is depicted by his casual posture, clothes and moustache, in the Trimurti picture) is the highest." [Mu 11.02.69]

N.B. The sections in brackets, are interpretations based on Advanced Knowledge.

Roy

[shivsena]

To all truth seeking PBKs.

Sharing a very important Vani point:

Avaykt Vani 16-7-69 says: "Ab Gyan surya vyakt kinara chod avaykt vatan mein khade hain". ["Now the Sun of Knowledge has left the corporeal world and is standing in the subtle avaykt world."]

Who is this Gyan-surya who is waiting for the children in avaykt vatan ???

The above Vani point clearly proves that there is no soul playing the role of Gyan-surya in vyakt-vatan(corporeal world) as is taught by advance knowledge.....if Virendra Dev Dixit is playing the role of Gyan-surya( as claimed by PBKs) then why did avaykt Brahma make the above statement in july 1969 when Virendra Dev Dixit had not even entered the Yagya.

shivsena.
=======

[shivsena]

To all truth-seeking PBKs.

Sharing a trance message(avaykt sandesh) through Gulzar Dadi dated 16-1-02.
"Ab avaykt part ko toh koto mein koi, aur koi mein bhi koi hi jaan-pehchan sakta hai."[meaning: ''Now avaykt part can be recognised only by one in a crore(10 million)'' ]

The above trance message clearly mentions that the avaykt part will be recognised correctly only by 108 souls(koto mein koi...who will know that avaykt brahma is Maa-jagdamba(no. 1
shivshakti) and not Lekhraj Kirpalani brahma (as is commonly believed by BKs-PBKs ie 9,16,000 souls).

shivsena.

[shivsena]

To all truth-seeking PBKs.

In the first few Vanis after 1969, avaykt brahma(Mama) has revealed many secrets.

Av. Vani 23-1-69 says: "Aaj mein aap sabhi bacchon se avaykt roop mein milne aaya hun. Jo mere bacche avaykt roop mein sthit honge wohi isko samaj sakenge.....Agar vyakt mein dekhenge toh Bap ko dekh nahin sakenge."

[meaning: "Today i have come to meet you children(108) in avaykt form. Only my those children(108) who are in avaykt stage will be able to understand this.....If you see in vyakt(Sakar), then you will not be able to see the Father. (combined Father shiv with no.1 shakti.).

Many points become clear by churning the above Vani point.
It is very clear from the above point that this point is spoken not by child Krishna(avaykt brahma) but it is definitely spoken by avaykt Mama(combined Mat-pita) and this fact can be understood only by 108 avaykt souls who are destined to attain the same farishta stage as the Father.....also those who see the Father in vyakt(Sakar) with these physical eyes will never be able to see the Father.( their spiritual parents shivshakti combined).

shivsena.

[Roy]

Thank you for continuing to share these great points with us Bhai!

[fluffy bunny]

Please excuse the 'idiot question' here, can I just revise the most simple thing? That is, the factual derivation of the words.

Am I right to think "Baap" comes from Urdu and means "Father", and "Dada" means "elder brother" (but also "grandfather") in Hindi? Or is Bap short for Bapu in Hindi?

Linguistically, what is the difference in use from Bap, Bapu and Pita?

Is it correct to say according to the BKs, it is the 'Bap' which refers to Shiva and the 'Dada' that refers to Lekhraj Kripalani?

[arjun]

Am I right to think "Baap" comes from Urdu and means "Father", and "Dada" means "elder Brother" (but also "grandfather") in Hindi?

Yes.

Linguistically, what is the difference in use from Bap, Bapu and Pita?

All 3 r same.

Is it correct to say according to the BKs, it is the 'Bap' which refers to Shiva and the 'Dada' that refers to Lekhraj Kripalani?

Yes, that's the BK point of view.