Sach_Khand wrote:
I too am tired giving Murli proofs.
....yeah i know....
But I would like to say that there is a Murli point which says that I am not the soul of Brahma Vishnu Shankar. Here these BVS which are referred to are the subtle deities and not deities of this corporeal world.
....who tells you that SHIV and Shankar's soul is same....i don't understand...does any PBK says that SHIV and Shankar's soul is same....???....no...why then you are trying to put this stuff on our head?????
I have already quoted somewhere a Murli point where it is said that if we ask Shankar, although we cannot ask, but suppose we ask him "whose body is this". Then he (ie., the soul of Shankar) would say that this is mine.
It just proves that Shankar is a soul and not just the name of a part and this soul has a body which is subtle and this Shankar resides in Subtle Region, not in this corporeal world.
arrey dear if we cannot ask Shankar then why BABA had stated such sentence....that means there is something that we are not catching.....simple....
moreover SHIV himself had asked us in many Murli's to consider as ShivBaba's body and not any other one's....
"On whose lap have you come.If you say ShivBaba you are pass.But if you say BRAHMA then you are failed"
....and even baba had said in Murli
"Baap hai gupt"(Father IS COVERT)....this itself proves that if you ask the corporeal Father whose body is this....he will never say that this body is getting used by SHIV or something like that....
and this Murli point itself proves that Shankar has body(corporeal identity)...
in Murli it has been said that
"Shankar ko bhi deh ka ahankar ho sakta hai"(
"Shankar also might have the consciousness of body")
This is my opinion. You are free to have your opinion. And let me have mine.
OK...you have yours and i'll have mine....
Yes. It is better we keep mum whenever sharing of points and knowledge or views turns into an arguement. Is there any way to prove who is number one soul after Shiv? Atleast I do not think so.
yesssssssss there is way....
"Father SHOWS SON and SON SHOWS Father"....Shankar being the eldest child,SHIV gets manifested through Shankar.....simple....
I can give you a Murli point which says that "Dev Dev Mahadev kahna wrong hai" [saying Dev Dev Mahadev is wrong]. There it is said that Brahma is Mahadev.
Of course and that BRAHMA is none other than PRAJAPITA BRAHMA(and not Dada Lekhraj's soul)...
It is said that only those will get correct knowledge who has done Bhakti of Shiv and not of Shankar.
about SHIV....bindi SHIV cannot be worshipped even in Bhaktimarg....yes of course in form of SHIV+LING(SHIV+Shankar)..
i had never come to this point yet.....would you be able to quote the exact Murli...if it is possible....
In Murlis it is said many times that Prajapita Brahma cannot be called as Shankar. But it is ignored by AIVV.
....AIVV doesn't ignore any Murli point....yeah,certain purusharthi's like me might take some time to answer you,but that is not fair to point out the whole AIVV responsible for that....
that is true....
PRAJAPITA BRAHMA is the corporeal stage name of Ram's soul
Shankar is the subtle stage name of Ram's soul
ShivBaba or SHIVSHANKAR is the incorporeal stage name of Ram's soul
....but name goes to corporeal body.....hence depending on the stages corporeal Chariot is getting the titles....
definitely PRAJAPITA BRAHMA is never called Shankar....due to the stage differences....
"Baap ne samjhaaya hai PRAJAPITA BRAHMA jo manushya hai wo hi FARISHTA banta hai."....MU 23.1.84
"Father had explained that PRAJAPITA BRAHMA,who is (corporeal)manushya(human) now he only becomes SUBTLE "
You have quoted a Murli point where it is said that Varsa is given through Prajapita Brahma. Can you give a point which says that varsa is given through Shankar?
....varsa is practical dear that too in front of this world in corporeal world.....so it has been said that Varsa is given through Prajapita Brahma(Ram's soul in corporeal stage form)...
We have never heard in Murlis anytime about Shankar Kumar or Kumari. So, it is better to understand and recognise Prajapita Brahma and leave Shankar to do his work.
of course....Kumar or kumari are created in this corporeal world and never in Subtle Region....hence Father is named as PRAJAPITA....because creator creates his creation in corporeal world....
SAKARI se AKARI se NIRAKARI.....ban na hai....
Corporeal to Subtle to Incorporeal(stage)....we have to become
....this is the process....similarly the process for human tree Father it applies....
PRAJAPITA(sakari or corporeal) - to - Shankar(akari or subtle) - to - SHIV-Shankar(nirakari baap samaan or incorporeal Father like)
IMO, Dada is Mama Saraswati. This soul is both wife of Shiv and also the eldest son of Shiv based on The Knowledge within this soul.
well that's something new....can you support this with any Murli proof...
1) I am not crossing Murli points.
...i felt so...hence i said so...
2) Shankar cannot be a corporeal partdhari because even before recreation (because this is not fresh but done again and again in every Kalpa) of Brahmins through corporeal Brahma, subtle recreation is complete. First subtle recreation takes place and then of this corporeal world. Subtle creation of Shiv are subtle BVS. Just that. Nothing more. And later Brahmins are created in the corporeal world. Brahmins are not in Subtle Region and their Father (Father of humanity) Prajpaita Brahma is also in this corporeal world. And revealation of Prajapita Brahma is also the revealation of Shiv. This is my opinion. There is a Murli point which says that recognising Prajapaita Brahma and you become adhikari (Hindi) of inheritence (may be grammatical mistakes).
why is the need for creating Subtle Region....in Murli it has been said
"Main teen murtiyon ke saath hi aata hoon"
"I come along with three idols"...
....moortiyan or idols are always in corporeal world.....understand the meaning of idols....!!!
BRAHMA-Vishnu-Shankar.....names are kept on corporeal body....!!!
these are the stages and the act done according to these stages.....again and again again i repeated this point.....on basis of stages and their act the corporeal ones are named...
kaam ke adhaar par naam hota hai....(names are kept on basis of deeds)...
PRAJAPITA's soul = Shankar partdhaari's soul = PARAMATMA's soul(not SHIV but the one who becomes SHIV baap samaan....)
Lekharaj is not Subtle Region dweller. IMO, actually Lekharaj Himself is Shiv Who plays The Nirakar part in Sangamyug. And this is the reason why there was no name of Shiv in the early yagnya but Prajapati Brahma (Lekharaj) was considered as Gita Inventor. See early literature.
then why Yagya is named as RUDRA GYAAN Yagya....
No one is trying to explain The Knowledge given at the early times of yagnya.
That knowledge cannot be bunch of lies. But then they could not understand. Actually knowledge is simple. But we cannot accept because of our prejudices or concepts.
...i accept this....
IMO, even Mama Saraswati could not understand this simple thing that Prajapati Brahma (Lekharaj) is GodFather. It seems ridiculous for any intellectual to accept human being as GodFather. And hence such a long period of teaching has to take place. Where Mama Saraswati is the real student and Lekharaj is The Teacher. Once this number one student understands and accepts the Truth then this one teaches others and reveals Shiv through self to the world. And hence Mata Guru
....godfather do not have to listen to someone else.....in Murli there has been many proofs stating that there were certain children who used to drill BRAHMA and Mama and BRAHMA as well as Mama alongwith others used to follow their directions.....so BRAHMA is not GODFATHER....
"BRAHMA ko bhi PRAJAPITA kehte hai"..MU 28.11.76
"Brahma is also called PRAJAPITA"
....why 'also'?....that means PRAJAPITA is someone else...but since he was not there at the time of BRAHMA baba(when Murli was orated) Brahma was given the title PRAJAPITA....
...now about Mama...
how she will reveal the SHIV....?????
is she in corporeal form....if yes...are you aware of that corporeal form or still in research....??????
and if this is again just your opinion,then alright....you can continue with your own.....BEST LUCK!!!