Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

[andrey]

1) Shankar means mixed part. Nirakar, everpure Shiv, akari, Rajopradhan Krishna and Sakar, tamopradhan Ram. Shankar is also said to be angel. Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar belong to the Subtle Region. It is the stage of the mind and intellect that there is no connection with the world.

2) yes, you can see the explanation in the course. With respect to the roles in time it is Brahma/Dada Lekraj, Shankar, and Vishnu, but with respect to who are the Trimurti, it is possible that the three murtis, being born together, play part simultaneously.

here are some points

Many people have seen Trinity, but its meaning should also be known. The one who establishes must also sustain. His name, form and place at the time of establishment is different from the name, form and place at the time of sustenance. These matters are very easy to understand. [Mu - 28-6-79, Pg2]

Children you write Trinity Shiva's birthday. But three personalities are not in existence now. You say that ShivBaba creates the new world through Brahma. Hence, Brahma should also be present in the corporeal form. However, where are Vishnu and Shankar now? So how can you call it as Trinity? These are matters to be understood. Trinity means Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. You are the ones who know the secret of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. [Mu 18-2-76 Pg-1]

3) yes, but i cannot find the Murli quote now.

[mbbhat]

It is also said that if we put Jagadamba in the palce of Shankar it would be easy to explain, because it is not Shankar who does the destruction but shaktis.

yes, but i cannot find the Murli quote now.

OK, you can give when you get the Murli point.

But who is the Jagadamba to be put in the place of Shankar here? Mama, Dada Lekhraj, Kamala Dixit (or Devi whatever it is), or any other?

[andrey]

The one who does the work should be put. It is said that Shivshaktis perform the work of destruction.

[mbbhat]

Dear Andrey Soul,

If Jagadamba is put in place of Shankar, then do you mean there is no need to place Shankar in Trimurti picture?

[andrey]

No, no, I am sorry i have just confused you. Jagadamba can be put for the sake of explanation that the shaktis practically do the destruction, not that Shankar is not there.

[mbbhat]

SM 1-2-76(2):- Tum kah saktey ho hum aapko samjhaate hain in LN ko yah raajy kaise milaa. Geetaa may bhi Bhagavaanuvaach hai na. Main tumko Rajyog sikhlaaye Raajaavon kaa Raja banaataa hun. Swargvaasi toh tum bante ho na. To bachchon ko kitnaa nashaa rahnaa chahiye. Hum yah bante hain. Bhal apnaa chitr aur Rajayi ka chitr bhi saath may niklaalo. Neeche tumhaaraa chitr, oopar may Rajayi kaa chitr ho. Ismey kharchaa toh nahin hai na. Rajayi poshaak toh jhat ban sakti hai. Toh ghadi2 Yaad rahegaa hum so devtaa ban rahe hain. Oopar may bhal ShivBaba bhi ho. YAH BHI CHITR NIKAALNEY HONGE. Hum manushy se devtaa bante hain. Yah sharir chod hum jaaye devtaa banenge. Kyonki abhi hum yah Rajayog seekh rahe hain. Toh yah photo bhi madad karenge. Oopar may hain phir Rajayi chitr. Neeche tumhaaraa saadhaaran chitr. Trimurti KO NIKAAL DO. ShivBaba se hum Rajayog seekh hum so devta double sirtaaj ban rahe hain. Chitr rakhaa hogaa. Koyi bhi poochenge to tum batlaa sakenge. Humko sikhlaanevaalaa yah ShivBaba hai. Chitr dekhne se bachchon ko nashaa chadhegaa. Bhal dookaan may bhi yah chitr rakh do. Bhaktimarg may Baba Narayan kaa chitr rakhtaa thaa. Pocket may bhi rahtaa hai. Tum bhi apnaa photo rakh do. To Yaad rahegaa. Hum so devi devtaa ban rahe hain. Baap ko Yaad karne kaa upaay doondhnaa chahiye. ...-45-


= You become residents of heaven, is it not? So how much intoxication children should have….We change from human into deities. This picture also is to be prepared. Let there be picture of ShivBaba on top. ... At top, picture of Kingdom, below your ordinary picture/photo. REMOVE Trimurti. We become double crown by studying Rajayog… If anyone asks, you can explain- This ShivBaba teaches us.


Will anybody expalin why Baba says remove Trimurti?

[mbbhat]

SM 29-11-77(1, 2):- Baba ne samjhaayaa hai Trimurti Shiv jayanti kahnaa hai. Sirf Shiv jayanti nahin. Trimurti Shiv ki jayanti theek hai. Is baari likhenge apni 42vi Shiv jayanti manaa rahe hain. BRAHMA BIGAR SHIV KAISE JANM LENGE? ISLIYE Trimurti SHIV RIGHT AKSHAR HAI. Brahma dwara humko varsaa dete hain. ShivBaba HAI TOH VARSAA BHI SAATH MAY ZAROOR CHAHIYE. Toh yah Vishnu hai varsa. Brahma vaa Vishnu vaa Shiv toh vinaash nahin karenge. Shankar DWAARAA VINAASH GAAYAA HUVAA HAI. ISLIYE Trimurti KA CHITR HAI MUKHY. Trimurti chitr chalaa aayaa hai. Vahaan bhi tum raajy karte ho toh takht ke pichaadi Vishnu kaa chitr rahtaa hai. Yah jaise coat of arms hai. Inkaa arth duniyaa ke manushy nahin samajh sakte. -128-, 129

= Baba has explained that it is correct to say Trimurti shiv jayanti. Not just shiv jayanti. Jayanti of Trimurti shiv is right. This time (we) write 42nd shiv jayanti is being celebrated. WITHOUT BRAHMA HOW CAN SHIV GET BIRTH? HENCE TRIMUTRI SHIV IS RIGHT WORD. (Shiv) gives property through Brahma. WHEN THERE IS ShivBaba, EVEN THE PROPERTY ALSO SHOULD BE TOGETHER. SO THIS Vishnu IS THE PROPERTY. Brahma, Vishnu or Shiv will not do destruction. It is said- Destruction through Shankar. Hence Trimurti picture is important. Trimurti picture has come from long before(or is famous). Even there(Satyug) when you rule Kingdom, picture of Vishnu will be backside of the throne. This is like coat/cote of arms. People of the world cannot understand meaning of these.

From these Murli points, it becomes clear that-

ShivBaba does not need three chariots,

ShivBaba definitely needs Brahma,

ShivBaba takes birth by Brahma and not by so called GitaMata or Sevakram as said by PBKs.

Brahma and Vishnu are really necessary to show birth of Shiv and his property.

Baba uses Trimurti picture since it was used in Bhaktimarg.

Shankar has least importance in Trimurti. His place is doubtful. It seems that- Baba says- since in Bhaktimarg it is said- Destruction is through Shankar, let us place him there. Shankar is needed for the following-

*to improve shobha(appearance of the picture) as explained in previous Murli points,
*since Bhaktimarg people believe that destruction is by Shankar,let us put it there for their satisfaction.

[arjun]

Will anybody expalin why Baba says remove Trimurti?

In the end we have to remember ShivBaba only through one corporeal personality who will be known as Prajapita/Shankar, this is why perhaps Baba says remove Trimurti. But this is applicable to the last period, not the present period.

ShivBaba takes birth by Brahma and not by so called GitaMata or Sevakram as said by PBKs.

First of all you should understand that Brahma is not just one Dada Lekhraj, but many, whereas Prajapita is only one.

Shankar has least importance in Trimurti.

If that was the case why would ShivBaba utter the following words in Sakar Murlis:
* If Shankar wasn't there, I [Shiva] wouldn't have been mixed up with Shankar. They have prepared his picture and mixed me also with Shankar. They call him Shiv-Shankar-Mahadev. Hence he becomes Mahadev (Greatest of all the deities). [Mu 23-6-70]

[mbbhat]

If that was the case why would ShivBaba utter the following words in Sakar Murlis:
* If Shankar wasn't there, I [Shiva] wouldn't have been mixed up with Shankar. They have prepared his picture and mixed me also with Shankar. They call him Shiv-Shankar-Mahadev. Hence he becomes Mahadev (Greatest of all the deities). [Mu 23-6-70]

I do not know fully. But what I feel is, one possibility could be since initially children were not capable of understanding that God is point, Baba kept children busy in these divine bodily personalities and ling.
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A point here is - regarding the meaning of Murli point- it may be

"If (the belief of) Shankar was not there (in Bhaktimarg), I would not have mixed up with Shankar.

[arjun]

I do not know fully. But what I feel is, one possibility could be since initially children were not capable of understanding that God is point, Baba kept children busy in these divine bodily personalities and ling.

No. This does not mean that these three divine personalities do not exist. They do exist. But their parts were not completely revealed by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba because these three personalities were not present in the Yagya in corporeal form when the Murlis were being narrated through Brahma from 1951 to 1968/69. These personalities started entering the Yagya one by one. The personality which is to play the role of Vishnu/Vaishnavi devi entered the Yagya before Brahma Baba's death.

[mbbhat]

Thank You.
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Just to establish the link with similar topic - here-

http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t= ... 580#p43580


See post dated 25th November 2012 mentioning the Sakar Murli point dated 3-10-76(2)