Brahma not complete until the end.

[john]

Sakar Murli 2008/11/06 Revised

Mama and Baba will go and the very special children will also go in advance. Each one has to play his part. What is there to worry about? We observe the playas detached observers. Your stage should always remain cheerful. Even Baba has thoughts of concern. The law says that they will definitely come. It is not that Mama and Baba have become complete. The complete stage will come at the end. At present, no one can call himself complete

Here it is explaining that Mama and Baba have not become complete and will not be complete until the end. So therefore Avyakt Brahma Baba can not be Karmateet.

[mbbhat]

I am in search of some more Murli points regarding this. Some of the BKs believe that Mama had taken birth to do dhan seva. It is also believed in BKWSU that there are two groups in Advance Party(Not PBKs). Leader of one party is Mama and the other is Manamohini Didi.

The Murli is Sakar Vani. Hence it is clear that Baba(Dada Lekhraj was not complete at that time).

[shivshankar]

imho BB is in karmateet stage now. He have no body counscious at the moment. He even have no material body:)))
Also I think, that "end" (karmateet stage) for BB was when he had left his material body, because his next birth will be only in the Golden Age.

[mbbhat]

The Murli is Sakar Vani. Hence it is clear that Baba(Dada Lekhraj was not complete at that time).

Dear John Soul,
I am sorry for the error. It is correct that Murli says complete stage comes in end.

I have done some more errors elsewhere also.

[shivshankar]

I It is also believed in BKWSU that there are two groups in Advance Party(Not PBKs). Leader of one party is Mama and the other is Manamohini Didi.

There a lot of beliefs in BKWSU;-)
They will be changed into knowledge I hope.

[shivsena]

Here it is explaining that Mama and Baba have not become complete and will not be complete until the end. So therefore Avyakt Brahma Baba can not be Karmateet.

Good point, john.
BKs believe that brahmababa became karmatit when he left his body in 1969.
Do PBKs believe that Brahmababa became karmatit in 1969!!!

Can arjun Bhai or nivi behan or any other pbk give his views on the above.
shivsena.

[bansy]

Sakar Murlis were spoken before 1969, and they are still being "spoken" albeit revised up for each day. BKs are using the words, but are they using these revised Sakar Murlis, as scriptures or as living daily teachings.

Then there are Avaykt Murlis spoken by the combined form according to the BKs, the frequency has decreased over time due, partly due to the aging of the Chariot (which I feel should not have any bearing as to why the combined form cannot come every day to speak to the children, for the children will keep on asking where is he going again, and again, and again and cannot he not stay a little bit longer for once ? Even the postman delivers the mail each day. Is this (Madhuban/Chariot) place a temporary home or home ?... I digress)

If Sakar Murlis are complete, i.e. if Brahma Baba is complete, then why are they needed to be done each day, when they can be bound into a single volume. Call it "The Completed Works of Brahma Baba".

Regardless, Brahma Baba still has to come into a combined form with Father Shiva, because Brahma Baba cannot come on his own as he is not complete to come onto his own.

He even have no material body

Whilst Brahma Baba has no body of his own, he has been chosen to accompany Father Shiva in the combined form to visit the children in physical form via the Chariot of Dadi Gulzar. If Brahma Baba was karmateet, he need not the company of Father Shiva unless Father Shiva has something still left to show and teach.

That for me is my understanding of the Murli point posted in this thread.

This does not take away that there is still much in the Murlis for many to study, especially dharna and for seva.

[shivshankar]

If Brahma Baba was karmateet, he need not the company of Father Shiva unless Father Shiva has something still left to show and teach.

In my humble opinion it is Shiva, who needs the company of BB to come into the Gulzar's material body. Because it is His task to maintain and teach His children.

In comparison with Dadi BB have more experience in being direct Chariot. He is the only direct Chariot indeed. So he don't interfering by his thoughts or desires while God performing His task. This is how I see what is happening.

[bansy]

In my humble opinion it is Shiva, who needs the company of BB to come into the Gulzar's material body. Because it is His task to maintain and teach His children.

In comparison with Dadi BB have more experience in being direct Chariot. He is the only direct Chariot indeed. So he don't interfering by his thoughts or desires while God performing His task. This is how I see what is happening.

First, according to BKs who entered the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani ? (or Virendra Dev Dixit for PBKs but I won't go into the PBK understanding in this post) at the start of the Yagya.

Then who (singular/plural) is entering the body of Dadi Gulzar after 1969 ?

Yes, it is Father Shiva's task to maintain his children for 100 years. One of those children is Prajapita Brahma Baba, the "Number one child". But it is via Prajapita Brahma Baba who maintains the Yagya. The knowledge and Yoga is from and with Father Shiva (the Supreme Soul where all other souls are the family of all mankind), who establishes the Brahmin Family by "appointing" Brahma Baba as the first student, then the dharna and seva (i.e practical application and using the Yoga and knowledg) is to be from Brahma Baba to propagate because this is his role as appointed by Father Shiva (propogate to souls are those who have contact or have had contact with the knowledge as compounded by Brahma Baba's co-helpers - the Brahma Kumaris). Father Shiva is the Incorporeal One. Every other soul has or has had a corporeal body. Father Shiva has to have a corporeal body to give teachings.

Prajapita Brahma Baba's task is to simply maintain the Yagya and with the family members to bring everyone back home and be given the inheritance and jewels (ie purity through Yoga and knowledge and its application through dharna and seva) to be ready to start the new Golden Age.

This is my understanding for the children under the title "Brahmin".

Children always accompany the parents wherever they go, but the parents always place their children ahead of them as a sign of succession (i.e inheritance) and leaves everything they have for the children. For the parents love the children to give them all. When the children are fully mature (i.e. in the case of Gyan they are 100% complete) then can they let go of the hand and be qualified as being "equal to the Father".

Now as Father Shiva's work is not complete yet, so that means the children are not complete (in the task). e.g. I may have finished doing my work, but if another colleage has not finished the work, that means the work (for the whole company) is still incomplete. This means that the one who has seemed to have finished on time has not really finished it as a whole as there is not unity yet, only individual pursuit. So Brahma Baba's work is not complete, his role is to find 900,000 unity. And thus he is still receiving directions from Father Shiva to know how to complete the Yagya, but he can only receive them in a physical body.


But the question is whether Father Shiva ansd Brahma Baba in the combined form BapDada is teaching the BKWSU via the body of Dadi Gulzar. ie are the Avaykt Murlis complete enough to provide complete transformation to 100% purity in all practising Brahmins ? This is where the PBK Advanced Knowledge comes in for is Brahma Baba getting his clarifications ? (but I won't go any further here)

he don't interfering by his thoughts or desires while God performing His task.

So Father Shiva's role is to teach, Brahma Baba's role is to support the Yagya. Brahma Baba will go where Father Shiva requires his role to be, so you're right Brahma Baba's doesn't interfere with Father Shiva but he has to interferel with the Yagya.

[shivshankar]

1) First, according to BKs who entered the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani ?
2) Then who (singular/plural) is entering the body of Dadi Gulzar after 1969 ?
3) And thus he is still receiving directions from Father Shiva to know how to complete the Yagya, but he can only receive them in a physical body.
4) But the question is whether Father Shiva and Brahma Baba in the combined form BapDada is teaching the BKWSU via the body of Dadi Gulzar. ie are the Avaykt Murlis complete enough to provide complete transformation to 100% purity in all practising Brahmins ?
5) So Father Shiva's role is to teach, Brahma Baba's role is to support the Yagya. Brahma Baba will go where Father Shiva requires his role to be, so you're right Brahma Baba's doesn't interfere with Father Shiva but he has to interferel with the Yagya.

1) According to BKs it was God, Supreme Soul, Shiva.

2) According to BKs it is Supreme Soul + Lekhraj Kirpalani(Brahma Baba, Krishna) soul + Lekhraj Kirpalani(Brahma Baba, Krishna) fine(subtle, angelic) body.

3) Brahma Baba can receive them not only in phisical body, because thoughts are not of material nature. So he can receive them in the Subtle Region also.

4) In my humble opinion there are a lot of things which are not explained from Gyan positions yet. So I think there will be more knowledge to complete transformation to 100% purity.

5) In my humble opinion Brahma Baba's role is to maintain soul counscious stage in order to be perfect instrument. It is not his role to create the Golden Age. It is God's role. And it contains different aspects, such as teaching, maintainig and destructing.