Does ShivBaba really give Drushti always?

[mbbhat]

SM 21-12-70(3):- Aim Object to Baap bataa dete hain. Purusharth karna bachchon ka kaam hai. Tab hi itna oonch pad paa sakenge. Koyi ulta sulta sankalp vikalp na aaye. Baap hai knowledge ke sagar. Hadh behad se paar. Sabhi baith samjhate hain. Tum samajhte ho Baba humko dekhte hain. Parantu hum to Hadh behad se paar chala jaataa hun. Main rahnevala bhi vahaan kaa hun. Tum bhi hadh behad se paar chale jaavo. Sankalp vikalp kuch bhi na aave. Ismay mehnat chaahiye.

= Father gives aim object. It is for children to do effort. Then only (you) can attain such a high status. No ulta sulta(wrong) thought should come. (Go) beyond hadh(limited) and behadh(unlimited). (Father) sits and teaches/says everything. You think baba sees(gazes) us. BUT I/WE GO BEYOND HADH AND BEHADH. My residence is also that. YOU ALSO GO BEYOND HADH(limited) AND BEHADH(unlimited). Let no sankalp or vikalp(ripples, thoughts) come. There is need of effort in this.

From the above Murli point,
I conclude that BKs or PBKs who expect drushti are still Baby buddhis(intellects).

[andrey]

ShivBaba does not have eyes, so it is not a matter of phisical seeing, but vision with the intellect like understanding. It is said that he is knowledgefull so his vision falls on his children because he knows them. Often Avyakt Vanis begin like...today BapDada sees.... it is not a matter of phisical seing, he is seeing like emerging some speciality etc. So giving drishti is not like seeing through the eyes, drishti can fall on children even if they are not in front of the phisical eyes, something like sakaash.

[mbbhat]

so his vision falls on his children because he knows them. ... drishti can fall on children even if they are not in front of the phisical eyes, something like sakaash.

Thank You dear Soul.
Does not Baba mean to say forget (or become indpependent of) Corporeal things?

[andrey]

Yes, forget everything corporeal.

[mbbhat]

Yes, forget everything corporeal.

Then is there need to remember charriot?

[shivshankar]

I guess not ;-)

[andrey]

The need comes when we have to identify the Supreme Soul. If he comes in the world we have to identifty him. For example why do BKs talk about Brahma, that he had come in Brahma. why don't they just say about a point of light? it is because when he comes there are also 3 corporeal personalities that are connected with his coming. If we don't know the three of them we don't know his acts, we don't have knowledge about him and the only way to identify him is the knowledge. So if we know that in some point of time the supreme souls is present there in some Chariot, the Chariot is naturally remembered like the place, the home where it resides, the coordinates, the address. This is even not aginst but along with the Murli. It is a matter of what do we see. The soul inside or the body outside. This is also the challenge of our everyday practice, do we see bodies or do we see the souls inside. If we talk to someone will we remember him as point of light in Paramdham? So if Supreme Soul is present in an ordinary human with whom we can talk, sit, eat, sleep would we remember him as just a point in Paramdham or will we remember him in the Chariot in a natural way?

[shivshankar]

There is logic in your words, Andrey.

The only thing I can say from my experience is that I do receive much more power when concentrating on God (point of light) in Paramdham. And also this type of meditation is more complicated, because needs more power of concentration. It is easier for me to remember God in Barma Baba's fine body in the subtle, but it doesn't give so much spiritual energy and bliss.

As for remembering God in Virendra Dev Dixit's body. I have no experience of this type of meditation. I don't mind to try, but don't have a photo.

[mbbhat]

Andrey Soul wrote:1)The need comes when we have to identify the Supreme Soul. If he comes in the world we have to identifty him. 2)For example why do BKs talk about Brahma, that he had come in Brahma. why don't they just say about a point of light? 3)it is because when he comes there are also 3 corporeal personalities that are connected with his coming. If we don't know the three of them we don't know his acts, we don't have knowledge about him and the only way to identify him is The Knowledge.

1)What I mean to say is boat is needed till you cross the river. After that the boat is a burden. Similarly we need Chariot or any other Gyani soul(say Bk) till we understand God. A mediator is needed for a girl till she is engaged with boy. After that the mediatior is useless or a burden. Hence many Murli points say DO NOT REMEMBER ANYTHING YOU SEE THROUGH EYES, INCLUDING THE Chariot.

But there are (I have read two) points which say to remember Chariot also to have the intoxication that -I belong to braahmin(highest) caste.

All need food. But some need even coffee and tea, etc. So what I think is remembering incorporeal is a must. But some are addicted to coffee(they cannot think just point. They are attached to body so much). Hence for them Baba says remember even Chariot also.

Not only that ShivBaba gives extra respect to the Chariot so that a gathering can run smoothly. It is like placing a leader for the team.

2)There is also a Murli point that says- "Some say how can we believe that God is speaking through Brahma. OK, leave it. You just consider yourself as soul and remember Me". BKs do not force anybody to remember Chariot. To say the fact, BKs say God has come in Brahma. BKs keep photo of Brahma Baba much more than needed. It is their weakness. Murli does not support it.

But there is a Murli point that says(I think recent avykat Murli of this season) - The more you praise Baba, others praise you or How much the word "Baba" comes out from your mouth, to that extent your name also will come out from others' mouth.

Since Brahma Baba's purusharthah is highest, all other BKs will become his poojaari also. So I think except 108 souls, others will get influenced by Brahma Baba to a considerable extent. That is drama(numberwaar).

3)Baba has also said that he may enter in any Bk to serve the other soul (if it is in drama). So how can we keep account of all those chariots in whom ShivBaba enters without knowing? So do you say if we do not know which all the other BKs(or PBKs) in whom God has eneterd we do not have knowledge of God?

Not only that we do not know(at least me) where God stays during the whole 24 hours. Also Baba has said when I come nobody knows. Then do you say we do not have enough knowledge about God to do purusharthah?