Lies/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of ...

[mbbhat]

....God of BKs/PBKs

SM 8-7-71(1) or SM 8-7- 81(1):- Itni choti si atma 84 janmon ki chakr lagaati rahti hai. Jaise Rocket chodte hain to 4 maas tak firte rahte hain. Ab vah hai science ki baath. Is baath kaa kisko pata bhi nahin hain ki atma humaari choti hai. 84 janmon ka chakr lagati hai. Harek atma may 84 janmon ka part noondhaa huva hai. Yah kudrat hai jo avinashi part chalta rahta hai.

= Such a small soul keep on rounding the cycle of 84 births. When rocket is put on(propelled), it will keep on reveolving for 4 months. Now that is science. Nobody knows that our soul is small. (It) revolves in 84 births. IN EVERY SOUL PART OF 84 BIRTHS IS RECORDED. This is khudrat(wonder) that the eternal part keeps on going.

Is there part of 84 births in every soul?

SM 15-3-78(1):- Yah to samjhaa hai ki atma Paramdham se aati hai. PAHLE2 GARBHJAIL may jaanaa padta hai.
= This is understood/learnt that the soul comes from Paramdham. First (it )has to enter Garbh(womb) jail.

Any soul from Paramdham should first enter in jail?

[shivshankar]

1)Is there part of 84 births in every soul?
2)Any soul from Paramdham should first enter in jail?

1) According to BK knowledge souls can take from 1 to 84 (max) births. 84 births can take only 900 000 souls (correct me if I am wrong).
2)You know another way of birth? ;-)

[andrey]

Dear mbbhat,

For the first quote also possible explanation could be that because those souls that does not take 84 births does not achieve full soul-conscious stage, so they could not be called souls.

Regarding the second quote, in the advanced knowledge it is said that every soul experiences his first life at least, as liberation in life, and this is his Godly inheritance and even that some souls does not get born in the womb directly but enter mature bodies.

[john]

Any soul from Paramdham should first enter in jail?

In Murli it says in Golden Age womb is like paradise and in iron age it is like a Jail.
I will post Murli points when I come across them again.

[shivshankar]

Regarding the second quote, in the advanced knowledge it is said that every soul experiences his first life at least, as liberation in life, and this is his Godly inheritance and even that some souls does not get born in the womb directly but enter mature bodies.

Can you please explain how it goes?
I mean mechanism of entering mature bodi.

[andrey]

Like the Supreme Soul or the soul of other religious fathers.

[shivshankar]

Like the Supreme Soul or the soul of other religious fathers.

And where previous soul goes?

[john]

I must say it don't seem like my idea of heaven, jumping into somebody elses bones. Or someone jumping into mine for that matter.

[andrey]

I think it it not the matter of heaven. Maybe after Copper Age.

In one body many souls can be there at a time. One can check. If someone speaks something now and something else later, this duality of speech or actions means some soul is there, the more variety - the more souls. The more religions the soul gets converted into the more souls enter. It is influenced by more souls.

There are these remembrance the rudrakshas (these are some seeds of some three http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudraksha), so in these sometimes there is one face or mouth, two, three, up to fourteen. The mout like intellect, or face or remembracne of number of souls entering are one, two, three, fourteen. And it is rare to find ruraksha with one mouth. It is only one soul that speaks only one thing and all others come into duality more or less. It is also shown as the polar star that never leaves its place or the one who is above birth and death that does not lose and gain faith. Constant and stable in faith. Never fluctuating.

[shivshankar]

In one body many souls can be there at a time. One can check.

Very interesting theory:-)))

[mbbhat]

ShivShankar wrote:- 1) According to BK knowledge souls can take from 1 to 84 (max) births. 84 births can take only 900 000 souls (correct me if I am wrong).
2)You know another way of birth

1)This is what I am asking. According to BK/PBK philosophy, just 9 lakh souls have part of 84 births. But the above Murli point says 84 births in EVERY soul. This is surprising. [And I think there is no typing error in these Murli points.]

2)Very few souls(religious fathers) enter matured bodies directly when descend from Paramdham. But the Murli point says every soul first enters into garbh jail(?).

Here again question rises:- Every soul when descends from Parmadham first it cannot get any punishment. So how can that(the womb even in hell for the first birth of a soul) be called as jail?

In Satyug it is garbh mahal. How can that be called as jail? [Since Murli point says EVERY soul...]

Andrey wrote:- For the first quote also possible explanation could be that because those souls that does not take 84 births does not achieve full soul-conscious stage, so they could not be called souls..

According to my knowledge except 108 souls all the others get punishment. So they do not achieve soul conscious stage. Then should we say except 108, other souls are not eligible to be called as souls?

Andrey wrote:- Regarding the second quote, in the advanced knowledge it is said that every soul experiences his first life at least, as liberation in life, and this is his Godly inheritance and even that some souls does not get born in the womb directly but enter mature bodies.

So you mean to say in hell, all the souls will directly enter into matured bodies when they descend from Paramdham? If yes, then those who have just one birth in drama will not enter mothers’womb at all. Can the title ayonij(Title of God= one who does not enter womb) be given to these souls as well?

Dear Andrey soul,
You said there can be 4 or 5 souls in a body(I also agree, like entrance of ghosts. Ghost souls will come and leave whenever they feel. I do not have full knowledge). Can these entrances be called as BIRTH?

Not only that what will the time of occurence of DEATH for all those souls? Do all those souls leave the body at the same instant or one by one? Is there any rule for that?

[andrey]

dear mbhhat,

It is not said that 108 does not suffer punishment. It is said that only 8 does not suffer punishment. 108 suffer little punishment, anyway i believe that these souls who in this birth, with punishment or not achieve soul-conscious stage and realize their part, those souls who take full 84 births can be called as souls. One of these become this by making effort in their own body and other through entering, and together they constitute 900 000.

I believe that not all souls after Copper Age enter mature bodies. There are souls belonging to the devi devta dharam that come after Copper Age also. Maybe they take birth through womb. Anyway i believe that entering mature body cannot be called as taking birth, so even those souls who take one birth have to take birth through a womb. for these souls that enter mature bodies this is their way of experiencing liberation in life, because they don't have their own body, suffering, if any, goes to the body holder, whilst the souls of the deity religion experience liberation in life in their own body (in Golden Age and Silver Age, but maybe also in Copper Age and Iron Age), that is practiced even now in the Confluence Age that we practice being liberated in life whilst in our own body. It is also said in the Murli that you children when you reach mature stage will do the service of entering others, but probably this is different type of entering, it is like entering of the mind and intellect, the souls is in its own body, but due to the power of concentration of the mind an intellect like soul it can enter the mind and intellect of a soul that is far away, and during this time it does not leave its own body. Maybe this is called as service through the mind also, but also spreading the vibrations.

I don't know what happens with the many souls in one body when it dies. The souls of the body itself can leave in a second or slowly. So maybe depending on the attachment of the souls that enter with the soul of the body they enter, they may leave in some order, maybe some may leave even before.

[shivshankar]

IMHO from logical point of view and from konowledge in my head, one body can take only one soul (exeption is God's soul because it has no fine body so it doesn't influense corporeal body). Even in Gulzars Dadi case, she have to leave her body in her fine body to free space for BB's fine body.

And I don't really understand how soul can take mature body. And is it described or mentioned in Murlis?

[bansy]

How do two or more souls operate within a body ?

How do they communicate with each other to take control of what organ ?

How do souls in a body communicate with each other ?

How do souls "drift" from one body to another or from Paradham to a body ? (i.e enter and exit a body )

When Dadi Gulzar suddenly waks up (Brahma Baba 's souls departs), does she wake up because Brahma Baba's soul was suppressing Dadi Gulzar's soul (sitting on her ?). And how does Brahma Baba's soul leave ?

[andrey]

I think that the soul that enters does not operate the body directly, but influences the soul that operates directly the body. For example a soul in a body does not feel hunger, when a hungry soul enters it influences the other soul to start feeling hunger.

Maybe the soul that enters influences our mind, so in our mind some strange thoughts to us come. In the case with the Murli it is that Brahma Baba used to realize afterwards that such points of knowledge that were narrated he did not know before.

Maybe the case with Dadi Gulzar her soul is not totally suppressed but some basic function remain, like in sleep sometimes we may even think like in awake state, so maybe there is some suppressed form of awareness.

The soul leaves the body and enters another one like a rocket. Maybe It forgets the body like we have to forget now bodyconciousness and entering in the womb may be like the soul just start feeling the new organs.

For the coming of souls from Paramdham it is said that matter attracts soul. In the Murli it is said that when the pin of the gramophone on the vinyl of the drama reaches the right track the same soul comes to play the same part.