BK / PBK Theology

[shivshankar]

1)Do animal souls have their own karma / cycle / Paramdham, because I guess that animals in the human Golden Age would be treated better than they are today.
2)OK new to The Cycle but not newly existent. I think these one-birth souls are asleep in Paramdham, waiting their turn to be born.

1) Acorcording to BK knowledge animals have their place in Paramdham. Also they have some simple (in comparens with humans) karma. But mainly they are degradating along with the world.
2)Yes, you are right.

[uddhava]

Have I got this right - in between cycles, souls, high and low, are all in the same place ie Paramdham but they are equally unconscious / asleep. The only one that is conscious in Paramdham is Siva. Souls only become conscious when they are joined to a body ie take incarnation in the cycle. The only heaven and hell is the life of the embodied soul while in the cycle. Embodied life is either heaven or hell, according to karma, and there is no other heaven and hell experienced by the soul without the body.

[shivshankar]

Have I got this right - in between cycles, souls, high and low, are all in the same place ie Paramdham but they are equally unconscious / asleep. The only one that is conscious in Paramdham is Siva. Souls only become conscious when they are joined to a body ie take incarnation in The Cycle. The only heaven and hell is the life of the embodied soul while in The Cycle. Embodied life is either heaven or hell, according to karma, and there is no other heaven and hell experienced by the soul without the body.

Yes, you had got it right. But Shiva is also unconscious in Paramdham. Conscious consists of thoughts. But there are no thoughts in Paramdham.

[bansy]

Yes, you had got it right. But Shiva is also unconscious in Paramdham. Conscious consists of thoughts. But there are no thoughts in Paramdham.

And how does Shiva / souls move into bodies ?

[shivshankar]

It is automatic process. As we have material laws here, so there are laws there. Under their influense soul starting to take births in particular time of the cycle. And so the Supreme Soul starts to play Her\His role in the same way. I think we won't know mechanics of this laws in details. In common sense it is Law of Karma. But indeed Law of Karma includes a lot of specific sub laws.

[mbbhat]

1)According to my knowledge BKs do not have knowledge of resting place of animal souls. They do not know whether animals souls are situated closely to human souls in Paramdham. Some examples:- a) What about Dinasaurs? Where are their souls ? Also about those animals whose numbers have reduced and some have got exhausted?

b)I do not know what BKs or PBKs say about Dinasours. My question to them is did they exist in heaven? if yes, were they all vegetarians? What happened to their souls? Are they lying in physical world even now or have returned to Paramdham? [This cannot be since all will return to Paramdham after God's return] c) Do souls of Dinasaurs have separate place in Paramdham and the what about souls of tigers, lions, etc and souls of insects?

At present my belief is animal souls do not have place in Paramdham. They just lie somewhere in physical world when they have no part to play

2)Another thing is that I doubt whether God is unconscious in Paramdham. Because he gives visions to devotees in Bhaktimarg.

3)Many processes are automatic. For example a seed will remain constant for a long time. When we put water, it sprouts. Similarly a soul remains in Paramdham naturally. When time comes the part in the soul emerges and it descends to the world.

4)BKs are not sure whether the state of all the souls is identical in Paramdham. There is a Murli point that says that your(BKs') chamak (radiation) will be more when compared to other souls even in Paramdham. But all BKs believe that all the souls will have no thoughts or consciousness in Paramdham.

[arjun]

b)I do not know what BKs or PBKs say about Dinasours. My question to them is did they exist in heaven? if yes, were they all vegetarians? What happened to their souls? Are they lying in physical world even now or have returned to Paramdham? [This cannot be since all will return to Paramdham after God's return] c) Do souls of Dinasaurs have separate place in Paramdham and the what about souls of tigers, lions, etc and souls of insects?

Dinasaurs did not exist in the heaven.

PBKs have been told that the Dinasaurs existed at the beginning of the Copper Age and then mutated to other four-legged animals.

Like all human souls their souls are also present in the physical world.

Every species has a separate space in the Soul World. Since PBKs believe that Soul World is not in just one direction but engulfs/covers the solar system or the universe from all the directions, the human souls are in the highest orbits of the Soul World and then the souls of other animals, birds, worms, insects, micro organisms, etc.

[uddhava]

b)I do not know what BKs or PBKs say about Dinasours. My question to them is did they exist in heaven? if yes, were they all vegetarians? What happened to their souls? Are they lying in physical world even now or have returned to Paramdham? [This cannot be since all will return to Paramdham after God's return]

What do you mean 'God's return' - is God not in Paramdham now?

[uddhava]

Yes, you had got it right. But Shiva is also unconscious in Paramdham. Conscious consists of thoughts. But there are no thoughts in Paramdham.

What does it mean that Shiva is 'unconscious' - do you mean something like asleep? :shock:

[mbbhat]

Dinasaurs did not exist in the heaven.

PBKs have been told that the Dinasaurs existed at the beginning of the Copper Age and then mutated to other four-legged animals.

If Dinasaurs did not exist in heaven and got created in the beginning of Copper Age,
1)Who gave birth to Dinasaurs?
2)For how many years they did exist?
3)What is the cause for such a great changes TWICE? [Generation and Mutation].
4)How many other types of mutataions occur in drama? Eg: Tiger to cat, cat to tiger, Lion to lamb, or anything that is possible.
5)Can a soul of tiger take birth as lamb in next birth?

Uddhava wrote: What do you mean 'God's return' - is God not in Paramdham now?

Since God descended to this world in 1937 and has given words to children that "Saath rahenge(will be together), and saath chalenge(will go/return together)"

a)Most of the BKs believe God is not in Paramdham now. He is with Brahma baba in Subtle Region.
b)PBKs believe that God is in Virendra Dixit's body after 1969(demise of Brahma Baba= Dada Lekhraj).

Some PBKs (two. One had said in year 1997 and another in 2007) have told me that Shiv remains in V Dixit's body all the time. But I do not know about others.

*There is a Murli point that clealr says, ""I will not reside in the charriot all the day"". I do not know what PBKs in this forum say about daily time table of Shiv.

** I believe that most of the time ShivBaba/Shiv is present with Brahma Baba in Subtle Region, but there is no bondage to Shiv.

*** Whatever it is, after the end of Confluence Age, Shiv and all the souls will return to Paramdham. Till this final journey Shiv will have to visit corporeal world. So the word'God's return' what I had written means this final journey.

[shivshankar]

What does it mean that Shiva is 'unconscious' - do you mean something like asleep? :shock:

Dear Uddhava, we should understand one simple thing, conscious in our understanding remains only on the material level of life. On the other levels it changes.
When I say Shiva is unconscious in Paramdham, I mean, that there is no conscious in Paramdham, because there are no thoughts there. Every activity (Shiva's or soul's) is automatic there. Under activity I mean changing location, or in God's case it may be giving energy (for bhagats for example).

[andrey]

Dear brother shivshankar,

Are you sure there is at all any activity even in Paramdham. It is said that the souls there are like fixed, like the stars in the sky and don't fall. Why would there be change of locations. It is said peace and silence home, of stillness. If there is some kind of movement it is some kind of peacelessness, there is no stillness.

Yes, it is said in the Murli that i give the result of the feelings of the bhagats on the path of Bhakti in the form of divine visions, but it could also be the result of their own thoughts, because they don't know God at that time, God is not there at that time in a practical way he has no practical form at that time, so they imagine and due to their different feelings they have different visions. Still they have feelings God, but in some imaginary form. If god is one, he has one form, would he give of one form or of many forms. It is people who imagine him everywhere and in different forms. Some even have visions even today that some Guru is God, so is it God that gives this vision to mislead them? It is only result of their own feelings, they think Hanuman to be God and they see hanuman as God. In the same way it is said that I give highest posts, heaven in the palm of my hand, unlimited inheritance etc, whilst in fact everything is only result of our own efforts. What we receive is just knowledge. Because there is no knowledge at the time of Bhakti, but still there are feelings for some imaginary God, so there is result of those feelings in the form of some images.

[shivshankar]

Are you sure there is at all any activity even in Paramdham. It is said that the souls there are like fixed, like the stars in the sky and don't fall. Why would there be change of locations. It is said peace and silence home, of stillness. If there is some kind of movement it is some kind of peacelessness, there is no stillness.

Dear Andrey, under activity in Paramdham I mean such form of activity when soul or Supreme Soul leaves that place. This activity is automatical and happens according to the Cycle stage.

Result of Bhakti is not only devine visions.
Then you perform Bhakti you also receive spiritual energy. I suppose that this energy goes from the Supreme Soul, but maybe you receive it just from high levels of subtle worlds maybe from Paramdham. Because Buddists for example doesn't consider that there is any God, they only trying to meditate on Brahman (Paramdham) and they also receive spiritual power from that practice.

As for us. We receive not only knowledge from God. We also receive spiritual (fine) energy, which uplifts our conscious.

[andrey]

There was this question from shivsena two times, that who is Ram's community and who is Ravan's community. In VCD 726 it is said that the firm Rams comminity are only 8.

Regarding the souls in Paramdham it is said in the Murli that every soul goes in its own section.