Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

[global]

mhbhat,

Your beginning to sound like a parrot. I asked you if you are married, are you?

Listen, foreigners don't worship rats or statutes of elephants with multiple arms (at least the ones born here don't). So please don't go there with this foreigner are ignorant.

Divorce cases are high because one tries to in pose their beliefs on the other party in a very selfish way.

To me most BKs are selfish will leave family, friends loved ones for what?

[pbkindiana]

Foreign people are egoistic and just check for everything. It will be difficult for them to digest. They cannot adjust. That is why divorce cases are very high. They cannot tolerate.

Dear mbbhat,

Only in India the brides are splashed with kerosene or gasoline and burned to death just for not paying dowry. This atrocity is taking place till today. The cruel act of killing innocent wives by setting fire on them is most sinful than divorcing.

Om Shanti -- indie.

[bluesky]

Dear Mbbhat Bhai,

I would like to say few things. I understand what your arguments are, and especially commend you for your firm faith in BK. But you have to understand there are varieties of people here. Firstly, there are many ex-BKs and questioning BKs in this forum. Many of us have gone through unpleasant experiences in BKs and we are discussing those experiences here so that others can be cautious about what is happening and also how to help ex-BKs move on. We are discussing about people, leadership, meditation, teachers, BK policy in ways that affected (or is affecting) people (especially in an unpleasant way).

Most of us are familiar with BK knowledge to the core and what you’re saying is not only understandable but also a repetition of what we heard. My hunch is that you could contribute a lot more in the knowledge section of the BK forum, where people who are interested in knowledge could benefit your input and churning.

About Eastern and Western culture, it is an ongoing debate. No matter what we are, we should accept each others culture. I know a lot of Western people admire Eastern culture and hold down to it dearly, and so do the Eastern people. You have to understand that Western culture is built on reason and freedom, whereas the Eastern is built on faith (mainly), and reason as well. In the Eastern culture, hierarchy is prominent, but freedom is more sought in the Western culture.

Both hierarchy and freedom have caused progress and downfall. I think we have to be wise to understand this and discuss in a more acceptable ways considering these cultures. I know you could accept hierarchy (like Dadis, Seniors etc) easily because you come from the Eastern culture but not everyone will. We cannot blame anyone and we cannot change anyone. We have to flow with it and learn to live together, balancing both aspect of it. I think knowledge teaches us to be wise, is it not? Those are my thoughts. Good luck to you in your BK life, Mbbhat Bhai.

Bluesky

[global]

pbkindiana,

Thank you for sharing this with me. I was not aware of such brutality.

The Western woman would not allow such a thing. I do respect that the BKs try to empower woman but "East is East and West is West".

I have seen many European men, especially the older ones, still have the mentality of I am the boss and the woman is the slave. Pretty sad indeed. Then again I have also seen woman here act in ways that are not lady like and in many ways are more aggressive sexually than men.

I am still trying to figure out how a BK is able to identify their point of light being different from Shiva's point of light, or anyone else's. How do they know they are remembering the right point of light?

[arjun]

Due to the impurity present in this physical body, Baba says do not remember even Brahma Baba, do not keep his photos, etc. But children cannot become soul conscious immediately. So their mind goes on thinking many people. That is why Baba sometimes says remember Brahma Baba also. Remembering Brahma’s body is better than remembering other people of Kaliyuga. Remembering ShivBaba in Brahma is completely safe. But you will not get full power. For full power, you have to think just pure things, that too point form is the superb.

But this is what Baba is telling in a Murli point posted in the BK Section recently:
220.
“The Father says you should not remember any subtle or corporeal or incorporeal picture. You are given a target; people remember (God) by seeing pictures. Baba says – stop seeing pictures. This is a path of worship....He says – Children, do not look at any picture. Remember Me alone. Connect the intellect above. We have to remember the one where we have to go. One Father, that is all, none else. He alone is the true paatshaah, the one who narrates the truth. So, you should not remember any picture. You should not even remember this picture of Shiv because Shiv is not like this. Just as we are souls, He is the Supreme Soul. Just as a soul lives in the middle of the forehead, Baba also says – I occupy a little space adjacent to the soul and sit. I sit as a charioteer and give knowledge to this one. The soul of this one did not have knowledge; he was sinful. Just as his soul, the charioteer, speaks through the body, similarly I speak through these organs. Otherwise, how would I explain?” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 20.02.08, pg.3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

"Always think that it is ShivBaba who is speaking. Do not keep even his photo. This Chariot has been taken on loan. He is also an effort-maker. He also says, 'I am obtaining the inheritance from Baba.’ " (Revised Sakar Murli dated 21.07.05, page 3 published by BKs,in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK)

The above extract clearly mentions what is the wrong way and what is the correct way to remember ShivBaba. It says remembering ShivBaba as pictures (like Brahma Baba, Dadis, etc.) or as a point (a point of light marked on a casket of red light) is wrong, while remembering incorporeal Shiv through the corporeal body is correct.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[arjun]

1) Brahma Baba becomes first prince in Satyug (Golden Age) and rules the whole world. He will be in royal family till the end of Tretayug (Silver Age). Then in Dwaparyug, it is Brahma Baba who becomes Vikramaditya and constructs the gloriest temple SOMANATH, fully made from Gold and Diamonds. So he is King even in Copper Age. We do not know the rest of his births.

Dear brother,
Is there any proof in the Murlis to say that Brahma Baba's soul will be in the royal family till the end of the Silver Age?
Is there any historical proof that the temple of Somnath was fully made of gold and diamonds?

2) The most important thing is, after Copper Age Brahma Baba gets the name of Gita Sermonizer and till the end of Kaliyug (Iron Age), people consider Sri Krishna himself as the sermonizer of the world’s highest scripture. What a glory of Brahma Baba!

ShivBaba condemns the Bhaktimarg tradition of Krishna (alias Brahma Baba) being considered as the Gita Sermonizer and you are glorifying Brahma Baba for this biggest sin (according to Murlis). Is it good if a son takes credit for his Father's hard work?

3) Even in Sangamyug, ShivBaba entered his body and narrated Godly versions. All BKs love Brahma Baba also very well. They salute him and consider next to God. Everywhere in BK centres you can see Brahma Baba’s photos. Ordinary people still think that it is Brahma Baba who has established BrahmaKumaris institution.

In every Murli Baba refrains us from keeping Brahma Baba's photo and you feel proud of it?
You are correct in your analysis that ordinary people still think it is BB and not ShivBaba who established BKWSU. This is the reason why Krishna (alias soul of Brahma Baba) has been considered to be God of Gita instead of ShivBaba.

[john]

The above extract clearly mentions what is the wrong way and what is the correct way to remember ShivBaba. It says remembering ShivBaba as pictures (like Brahma Baba, Dadis, etc.) or as a point (a point of light marked on a casket of red light) is wrong, while remembering incorporeal Shiv through the corporeal body is correct.

Arjun,

Whilst explaining how not to remember the above passage does not give an explanation of remembering Shiva Baba in the corporeal.

What it does say is

Connect the intellect above. We have to remember the one where we have to go

[fluffy bunny]

1) Brahma Baba becomes first prince in Satyug (Golden Age) and rules the whole world. He will be in royal family till the end of Tretayug (Silver Age). Then in Dwaparyug, it is Brahma Baba who becomes Vikramaditya and constructs the gloriest temple SOMANATH, fully made from Gold and Diamonds. So he is King even in Copper Age.

Is there any proof in the Murlis to say that Brahma Baba's soul will be in the royal family till the end of the Silver Age ... Is it good if a son takes credit for his Father's hard work?

Please do not let me interrupt this line of question, it is very important to discover from where the BKWSU has created its mythology as it sheds credibility on the rest of the teachings.

But please also allow me to remind mbbhat, that for the first 20 years Lekhraj Kirpalani and the early Brahma Kumaris did think and call himself Prajapati God Brahma, the Gita Inventor ... and there was no mention of Shiva until after 1950 according to the publish documents we have here.

Your response please.

[paulkershaw]

To add to this: Is it not possible that one is being taught to remember 'one-self" and not the No. 1 "head of the family"?
The original wording and teachings of Dada (in whateverr form he presented himself as we went along) could have been misconstrued and mis-read until it became the 'real' thing to follow in his 'foot-steps'.

Many teachings and spiritual teachers working on the planet will tell you that you're the first, and that you're No.1 in the line - up of things to come, if you would just 'make effort' to understand the teachings a bit better you'll be it. I've come across this 4-5 times in the previous month or two from different sources. By responding as we do (or 'did' for most hereon this forum), it shows certain internal perspectives at play on an individual and on a collective consciousness.

Dada Lekraj/Brahma Baba was not the first to speak of this, nor shall he be the last (sic).

[arjun]

Whilst explaining how not to remember the above passage does not give an explanation of remembering Shiva Baba in the corporeal.

Dear brother,
Om Shanti. It is nice to see you participating in the discussions after a long time. Did you take abk with you on vacations and leave him there? :D We missed you and continue to miss abk.

As regards your above statement, I expected someone to raise this issue. Yes, it is not directly said in the Murli point under reference that the incorporeal should be remembered through the corporeal, but it has been clearly said that one should not remember the 'incorporeal' picture as well. So, if you say that connecting above means remembering the incorporeal, then that has also been ruled out by Baba. Whereas He has repeatedly said that He is sitting beside Brahma's soul and teaching. So, He is indirectly hinting to the children to remember him through the corporeal medium. Here is another Murli quote that underlines the importance of remembering the Supreme Soul through the corporeal medium:
• “Baba speaks to the souls. Instead of aatma (soul) it will be called a jeevatma (a living soul, i.e. soul+body) because when a soul is single (i.e. without body) it cannot speak. Without a body, a soul does not speak to (another) soul. Will the Supreme Soul talk to a soul in the Supreme Abode? Although it is said that Christ was sent (to Earth) by the Supreme Soul, but there the Supreme Soul does not speak. There is not even gesture there. According to the drama a soul comes down on its own to play its part. The part (i.e. role) is recorded in the soul. So the soul comes down and plays its part by assuming a body.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 08.10.07, pg 1&2 published by BKs)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[global]

Can a pbk and a current bk.Share exactly how they do Yaad?

What do they remember exactly? (I think this is very important to understand this)

I am trying to understand if both the pbk and bk are doing correct Yaad.

Please be as descriptive as possible.

for. example do you remember someones body (which one) or no body and do you remember anything else?

Thanks,

[mbbhat]

Dear John soul,

Only the points related to BK-PBK issues are edited. But dharna points are not edited. I will write about ego in detail in the next post.

[arjun]

Quoted from the BK Section for reference:

228.
“Shiv means point. A soul itself is a point, isn’t it? What is a star? How small is it? It is not as if the souls would go up and grow in size. It is a sign (of the soul) that is shown in the middle of the forehead. It is even said that a wonderful star shines in the middle of the forehead. So, certainly only such a small soul would be able to live in the middle of the forehead. So, as the soul, so is the Supreme Soul. But it is a wonder that the part of all the births is recorded in every such small soul which never gets erased. It will go on for ever. These are so secret matters. Were such matters narrated earlier? Earlier it used to be said that He (i.e. God) is in the form of a ling; He is in the shape of a thumb. Had these matters been narrated earlier you would not have been able to understand. Now it fits into your intellect. Everyone would say that it is a star. Even the visions that people have are of stars only.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 22.02.08, pg.2&3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

I think this issue was discussed long ago. It is only a proof that in the initial days of the Yagya BKs used to remember Shiva in the form of a ling and then in the form of the shape of a thumb and then in the form of a point of light/star. Remembrance of this point of light Shiva in the middle of the forehead of Brahma Baba must have evolved much later on.

[arjun]

Can a PBK and a current BK.Share exactly how they do Yaad? What do they remember exactly? (I think this is very important to understand this). I am trying to understand if both the PBK and BK are doing correct Yaad. Please be as descriptive as possible, for example, do you remember someones body (which one) or no body and do you remember anything else?

Om Shanti. As already described in this thread, I, as a PBK try to remember the incorporeal God Father Shiva through the body of His appointed Chariot (according to me) Baba Virendra Dev Dixit (known as Shankar/soul of Confluence-Aged Ram/Confluence-Aged Krishna/Confluence-Aged Narayan in the advanced knowledge). Just as some BKs try to visualize Shiva in the middle of the forehead of Brahma Baba, in the same way I try to visualize Shiva in the middle of the forehead (between the two eyebrows) of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit.

To be true, I hardly get any time to especially sit and remember Baba, the remembrance is mostly while performing some or the other action, like cooking, bathing, travelling by bus, exercising, walking, etc.

As a BK, I used to remember Shiva either as a point of light in the Soul World or as a point of light in the middle of the forehead of Brahma Baba.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[fluffy bunny]

It is only a proof that in the initial days of the Yagya BKs used to remember Shiva in the form of a ling and then in the form of the shape of a thumb and then in the form of a point of light/star. Remembrance of this point of light Shiva in the middle of the forehead of Brahma Baba must have evolved much later on.

It would be good to have specific dates for each of these.

They must have evolved fairly quickly during the 1950s and early 60s and I wonder why and under whose influence. The "middle of the forehead" perhaps even later.