Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

[arjun]

So to forget the body, we need a powerful thing than body. That is the soul. Give highest importance to the soul and become carefree.

Dear brother,

Om Shanti. On the one side you say that we should forget the body and remember only the point of light and on the other side you say it is OK to remember ShivBaba through the picture of Late Brahma Baba. Which of the two is correct?

Similarly, ShivBaba is the only one who is really important. That is why- Baba always says- Ek baap doosraa na koi. Baba does not say "Do Baap".

You say one Father and none else. But how can one recognize that 'ONE' Father if He is to be imagined only as a point of light in a Soul World that nobody has seen? Moreover there are so many concepts of ShivBaba in the BK world.

• 1. ShivBaba as a point of light in the Paramdham.
  2. ShivBaba as a point of light in the body of Brahma Baba.
  3. ShivBaba through the body of Gulzar Dadi.
  4. ShivBaba through the body of various senior BKs (as evident by Mama's Murli, Dadi Janaki's Class/Murli). Every BK is taught to think that whoever may be the person reading out the Murli, they should think it is ShivBaba who is teaching. So, is He omnipresent?
  5. If we have to remember 'one ShivBaba and none else' then why is so much publicity given to the pictures of Dadis and other senior BKs through megaprogrammes, and through their pictures hanging on the walls of Madhuban and centers and in gift items?
  6. Recently, someone has posted the official letter written by BK Nirwair to all the BKs regarding the progress of Manmohini Complex at Mukrimata. If you see the second line you will find so many names whose remembrances have been conveyed to the BKs.

"Please accept Godly love and remembrances from Dadi Jankiji, Dadi Gulzarji, other Dadis, Brother Rameshji, Brother Brij Mohanji and Madhuban niwasi Sisters and Brothers."

If BKs aim to remember and remind everyone of one Baba and none else, then why do they convey the remembrances of so many senior BKs in official letters? cannot they do without it?

So, with so many concepts of ShivBaba in BKWSU and with so much of subtle Bhakti (of senior BKs) going on in the Yagya, can you say for sure that every BK is remembering 'One Baba and none else'? If you compare this with the PBKs, most of them are at least remembering one ShivBaba through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. So, who is remembering 'one' and who is remembering 'many'?

If you think body is to be remembered, what is the use? If you want food, you should eat. Just by thinking of food, you do not get strength. But soul and Supreme Souls are eternal. They are not subtle. So- eternal thing(soul) should remember(get company of) eternal things. Like body should get the company of food. Eternal soul does not get mixed with body. Body gets separated from soul one day. Then what is the use of thinking something that is going to perish?

If the body is of no use, why did the Supreme Soul need to come in a sinful body in a sinful world? He could have given the inheritance to all the souls sitting in the Soul World. It is true that we have to leave the body one day. But it is also true that we have to live with this body for 5000 years. Even in the heaven deities see each other as souls within the body and not as a soul living in the Soul World. So, is it not better if we practice to see soul within the body and not as a point of light without the body?

Even if you say Veerendra Dev Dixit's soul is completely pure, does not that body needs food and water? That body needs something. So whenever you remember that body, you will definitely be influenced by nature. Does Veerendra Dev Dixit's body emit bad smell or fragrance like deities? Veerendra Dev Dixit has diabetes. Some PBK told me. Whose karmic account is that?

I don't know the exact physical ailment of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, but, like other souls, he too has his own karmic accounts to clear. But that does not mean that if we remember ShivBaba through his body we will get the same diseases. He aims to go to heaven through the same body and we too have the same aim unlike the BKs who aim to leave their bodies and then take birth as deity children in the next birth.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[mbbhat]

Dear Arjun Soul,

1) Food of mind and body is different. What I mean is by remembering impure body (the one that emits bad smell, produced from lust), one cannot become pure. Actually there is no need of body at all. The soul is totally different than body. Immediately we come in body from Satyug itself, we descend (the power decreases). But Drama is made like that. We have to comedown. Hence we will forget Baba and think body slowly and slowly.
2) Now it is return journey. So we have to forget Body and bodily relations.
3) I am not seeing what BKs do or think. I am seeing just Murli and Brahmababa. I am a BrahmaKumar and not kumar of any Bk. What BKs do is not at all important to me. A student in a class will follow better students(directed by teacher) and will not come under the company of weak students.
4) In Murli it is said, " A pure soul cannot remain in impure body". You say Virendra Dev Dixit's soul has become pure since 1976 itself. Then how can he have disease? If you wish, you can say the conditions of Virendra Dev Dixit's body since you say his body should be remembered.
5) I have explained in detail how to remember. There is no need of further explanation.

[mbbhat]

Dear Arjun Soul,

Brahma Baba rules for 5,000 years directly or indirectly;

1) Brahma Baba becomes first prince in Satyug (Golden Age) and rules the whole world. He will be in royal family till the end of Tretayug (Silver Age). Then in Dwaparyug, it is Brahma Baba who becomes Vikramaditya and constructs the gloriest temple SOMANATH, fully made from Gold and Diamonds. So he is King even in Copper Age. We do not know the rest of his births.
2) The most important thing is, after Copper Age Brahma Baba gets the name of Gita Sermonizer and till the end of Kaliyug (Iron Age), people consider Sri Krishna himself as the sermonizer of the world’s highest scripture. What a glory of Brahma Baba!
3) Even in Sangamyug, ShivBaba entered his body and narrated Godly versions. All BKs love Brahma baba also very well. They salute him and consider next to God. Everywhere in BK centres you can see Brahma Baba’s photos. Ordinary people still think that it is Brahma Baba who has established BrahmaKumaris institution.
4) Name of the institution is also Brahma Kumaris! Name of the food is also Brahma Bhojan! Brahma is the first Brahmin.
5) Initially from Copper Age, there is avyabhichaari (pure) worship. That is worship of real God Shiva. Many temples of Shiva are constructed. After some time, Sri Krishna’s temples get constructed. Then Lakshmi Narayan, then Ram-Sita and so on. Temples of Shiva have highest glory. Temples of Sri Krishna and Lakshmi Narayan have the next glory. We know that Sri Krishna and Narayan are one and the same! What a fortune Brahma Baba has received! Brahma Baba has given such a love to each and every soul that all were satisfied with him. He gave love even to his enemies.
6) Like there is the word Shrimat (Directions of God), the word “Directions of Brahma” is also famous.
7) In Puri (in Orissa state of India), the temple of Sri Krishna is called as Jagannath [Jagat-nath]. The temple of Shiva in Kashi (Banaaras) is called as Vishwa-nath. The meaning of Jagannath and Vishwanath are one and the same. [Vishwa = Jagat= World & Nath= King= Owner]. This means that Shiva is maalik (owner) by default since he is the almighty and the real donour to all the souls. He gives everything needed to the whole drama in Confluence Age. ShivBaba is the INCORPOREAL owner of the world. And Brahmababa is the CORPOREAL owner of the world! Brahma_Baba gets the status of God himself! How great he is!
8) In Drama, ShivBaba does not take any credit (since he is abhokta and completely detached having no desires at any time). So practically ShivBaba rules just in Sangamyug (Confluence Age). That too he is detached even at that time also. He enters in Brahma’s body, speaks Murli and leaves.
9) ShivBaba is the real Father. He gives full property to Children. Children get the status of God itself! See the drama! The reason is ShivBaba does not interfere in anything by his personal interest. If ShivBaba has any personal interest, then he should distribute the property equally and all the souls will have to become Kings. Then drama cannot run. So ShivBaba just plays his role according to Drama and children according to realization of God (ShivBaba), receive (earn) property.
10) Words Shivaarpanam and Krishaarpanam are famous.
11) Hence it becomes very clear that Brahma Baba is next to God. Hence practically he gets the highest seat in the Kalpa, the real hero actor, Adi Dev.
5) Drama has not made Sri Ram or Shankar as Gita Sermonizer. So- it implies that it is Sri Krishna, that is Brahma Baba, is really next to God.

Hence I think there is no essence in teachings of so called PBKs or Shankar party.

[mbbhat]

Dear Souls,

How knowledge is mis-interpreted by PBKs

1)It is mentioned in Murli that “Geetaa me Krishn kaa naam daalne se bhagavaan kee hasti gum ho gayi hai”-

Bhagavaan kee hasti is Brahma Baba. Brahma is not worshipped in Bhakti-Marg (Just a very, very few temples are there). This implies that by inserting Sri Krishna’s name, Brahma’s value is lost. Otherwise actually if Niraakaar Shiva’s name would have been present in Bhagavadgeetaa, then Brahma also would have got the right place, since Shiva is and niraakaar (bodyless), he needs a body to speak and then definitely, Brahma would have received the right value.

But the PBKs explain something totally different and it seems that there is no logic at all. In their website, it is written, “If instead of SriKrishna, Shiv-Shankar Bholanath is written then all the religions would have accepted Gita as the highest scripture, because Shankar is called as the one who conquered lust where as it is written in scriptures that Sri Krishna had 16,108 wives. Now my question is, in the scripture there is another story of Shankar that “Shankar became completely nude and chased MOHINI to satisfy his lust”. Nobody is given higher glaani (defame) than this. Then how can the people of all the religions accept Gita as the highest scripture?

3) Also Shiv-Linga is worshipped in Bhakti Marg. Shankar’s statue is not present in many of Shiva temples. I think in olden Shiva temples, Shankar’s statue is not at all present. If I get time and seems important, then I may do a small study on this.

4) PBKs ask “Why Shiva and Shankar are mixed together?” My answer is perhaps “what you (PBKs) are doing now” You say Shiva is always present in Virendra Dev Dixit’s body and you call him Shankar. This is the biggest disservice in the Yagya. I think, this is an additional cause why in Bhakti-Marg, Shiva and Shankar are treated one and the same. Then Shiva’s incorporeal form is made into bodily form. This defamed Shiva.

When Shiva is considered to look like human form, like Shankar a yogi, then other religions gave no respect for Shiva and looted Shiva temples. If Hindus had considered the incorporeal form of Shiva alone as Shiva, then other religions would have considered Shiva as really high. But since human form was given to Shiva, value of Shiva is lost and countless Gods came into existence in India. This divided Hindus into Shaiva, Vaishnava, Ram-bhakt, etc etc made them weak. Then the other religions easily looted India and we know the history. So we should never think Shiva in corporeal form. It is foolishness. But PBKs tell Shiva should be remembered in the patit(impure) body of VDixit. Readers can decide according to their intellect and accept according to their capacity.

Views of BKs and (so- called) PBKs

1) BKs call PBKs the Shankar Party. Reason is clear. Virendra Dev Dixit declares himself as Shankar. But PBKs call BKs as Kauravas and call themselves as Pandavas.
2) PBKs call BKs as kukavamshaavali (the one who takes birth from womb).
3) In BK centres, Murli runs daily and in many centres, both morning and evening. But in PBKs usually once in a week. Baba has said in Murli that it is better to take Gyan-snan twice a day.
4) BKs consider people of the whole world as brothers. But PBKs consider just their people as brothers.
5) BKs open Pradarshanis, do service extensively by spending their tan, man and dhan. But PBKs call it as advertisements. [But they have website, is it not an advertisement?]
6) BKs give full freedom to attend class if the student is interested to listen and do not disturb the class. But PBKs will demand address and sometimes even signature in a ledger.
7) BKs just fill up the forms in a normal paper when students want to go to Madhuban. But PBKs demand in Bond Paper of Kaurava Government!
8) BKs put pictures of Brahma Baba. But no Bk tells to remember Brahma baba. But PBKs tell to remember Virendra Dev Dixit’s body itself! Is this not the higest bhoot-pooja? (Forcing to keep IMPURE body in HEART!) [They may say Virendra Dev Dixit’s soul is pure from 1976 itself. Then does that body emit fragrance like deities?
9) BKs say ShivBaba uses Brahma baba’s body just for sometime in a day (say one hour) while speaking the Murli. But PBKs say ShivBaba stays in Virendra Dev Dixit’s body all the time; 24 hours, 365 days since 1976 or perhaps 1969 itself. [In one Murli, Baba has told “mai paakhaanaa naheen jaataa hun, jo mujhe nahaanaa pade”- means I do not go to lavoratory to take bath (like you)” Just see how impure they have made even ShivBaba. They say ShivBaba stays in Virendra Dev Dixit’s body even when he goes to toilet!]
10) ShivBaba says “Forget whatever you see through your eyes”. But PBKs say you should never forget VDixit’s body!

(Still many things can be written)

[mbbhat]

Dear Arjun Soul,

Baba has said, "If you want to see most intelligent, see here. If you want to see most dull head see here". So in BKs, there will be many types. It is waste to comment about what BKs do. It is wise to discuss what Murli says. And also we know that only 8 are going to pass 100%. So majority of BKs are definitely going to fail.

Even then, if you see, BKs are still better than anybody. They try to approach each and every different country, religion, status people and give the divine message. They get blamed fromby PBKs, ex-BKs, and worldly people. You do not get blame from ex-BKs or worldly people. Baba has said "when you love God, the whole world will become your enemy". BKs have threat from all sides. What threat do you have? You have received threat from BKs because you came and disturbed students at Bk centres.

[But even then I am not unhappy from you. Baba says "You see in Drama, there is plan. These (body- conscious people) will fight with each other and Destruction takes place. Baba will not get blame". In the beginning, there was beggary part to filter BKs. Out of 400, just 70 survived. So even now, this may be a drama plan for BKs to divert their mind from truth. Today, we have Vishnu Party. I became aware of this just two weeks back when I saw this forum].

You people are not at all remembered by most of the BKs usually. In some occassions when you come and disturb in Bk programs, BKs might have taken action. If you have power, let somebody come from you who is kaam jeet. You say your Shankar is kaam-jeet since 1976 itself. Then after so much years of study, his company, how many souls in your side have become kaam jeet. If there is somebody from your side, I can definitely show somebody from Bk side.

Further, in the Gita it is written that "Kaam Mahaashatru hai" (Lust is the biggest enemy). You say you have the true Gita and the Bk's geita is not real Gita or they cannot interpret it (Murli) correctly. Then how many of you have conquered lust?

Drama has not made Sri Ram or Shankar as the Gita Sermonizer. So it implies that it is Sri Krishna, that is Brahma Baba, is really next to God. Hence I think there is no essence in teachings of so called PBKs or Shankar party.

But mbbhat soul had four points (one year before) in Murli and Ladder picture that was favouring somebody different than BKs (say PBKs) and not fully clear. Later around six months before he got cleared two points from Murli. But still one or two points to be cleared.

[arjun]

Dear mbbhat Bhai,

Om Shanti. It is nice to know that BKs are coming forward to participate in the discussions. But instead of writing lengthy posts it would be better if you give pointwise replies. Since my internet connection is not working since yesterday, I would reply to your posts later on.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[mbbhat]

Dear Ajrun Soul,

Take your own time. I am not in hurry. I have mentioned many relevant points using Murli as well as thinking logically.

All the best.

[global]

Mbhat,

Not sure about your posts and the accuracy. Virendra Dev Dixit declaring himself as Shankar ... I have not seen this.

Who cares if the Murli's run daily they are read in a false manner. Revised according to the organizations own agenda. I have not seen any evidence on this board that PBKs consider themselves brothers only. If BKs consider everyone as brothers, then what about the sisters then?

Website as advertisement? Are you kidding me? I think addresses and names are used to prevent clowns from the bk movement trying and preventing them from exposing their false doctrines anyone whether pbk or anyone else is a threat to the false evil empire.

Nothing personal mhbhat you seem like a nice person but those clowns your protecting will one day come back to bite you. Save your soul and stay away from those sister worshippers.

Why do the bk's talk about the importance of the household path where is the proof of this after all these years? I am talking about a physical male and female couple.

[fluffy bunny]

The websites are not "official" as such. They are run by followers. The Brahma Kumaris also call the rest of the world "unself-realised, ignorant, Shudras", Kaurava devils, storks and so on ...

Just out of interest, what direct experience of the PBKs have you had mbbhat? Have you ever spoken to any in personal?

[mbbhat]

Dear Global and ex-l soul,

• 1) PBKs say that they are brothers because even the existing bodies of females in PBKs will turn into male. *BKs consider all males because they say to forget body and consider soul only.
  2) I have met PBKs. I have seen one VCD of Virendra Dixit's. You can check with PBKs. According to them, their Virendra Dev Dixit is Prajapita, Ram and Shankar and great great grandfather, Bharat, bhaagyashaali rath.
  3) I am not kidding you Mr Global Soul. What I mean is, the PBKs say "service activities of BKs are like advertising. We do not believe in advertising".

Visit their website and you can see. Now my question is, is not a website advertisement?

[john]

Mbbhat

It is nice that you have done your research and put thought into what you write. I may not agree with all you put, but I respect your effort. I just wish more BKs would use their intelligence more, rather than giving knee jerk reactions to anyone who questions them. Especially those who have done strong research.

[mbbhat]

Dear Global soul,

1) There are many Bk families who remain pure and in BKs knowledge. Both husband and wives come into knowledge.
2) In my house, my mother is a Bk. Father is not a BK. But there is no problem for purity from my Father to my mother. We all live in one house.
3) There are 26 cases where some Brahmakumars are married into BrahmaKumaris during the beginning of Yagya. They are called as Baala- brahmaachaari couples.

Aren't these household path?

4) Initially, there was good purity in Yagya. Now BKs are not so stable but the quantity is increased. I belive that at the end, out of these, the required quality will come up. Let us see. Do you need more explanantion?

Dear ex-l,

BKs call outside people as Shudra but also call themselves as half-caste (imperfect Brahmin). Baba has also said in Murli that if a Bk has lust, he is not eligible to be called as Bk! What else do you need? Baba has also said for third class BKs, "in lokik world, a Father thinks about his useless, third class children, "It would have been better if such children would have not born. Similarly Baba also says the same thing to the ones who do disservice". BKs also agree that punishment to them is 100 fold!

Dear Souls,

When you take admission to a college, you see the syllabus first. If satisfied, next you see the fee structure, staff and building, laboratory facility, etc. You do not see who was the founder, when it is constructed, what is the total square feet of the campus, how many trees are there in the campus, how many becches and desks are there in the college, etc.

Similarly, in Bk, we should see whether the syllabus is OK or not. Here there are no fees. The building is also not needed. You need just for two hours per day. No need of staff if you understand Hindi or get translated by your own person into English. (The speciality of Raja Yoga is - the first lesson is the last lesson. There is no need of Murli if you have 100% love towards Baba. Just remember him).

You said, Murli are read falsely. I do not agree with this. They read Murli rightly. But do not follow to the extent required. That is all. But what about you? You left the college itself! They can at least dream of passing. What about you? You still are commenting about them outside. What a hopeless state is yours! Just see God has selected Indian women for his task. Foreign people are egoistic and just check for everything. It will be difficult for them to digest. They cannot adjust. That is why divorce cases are very high. They cannot tolerate.

Just see, Brahma baba and the 70 Dadis experienced the Beggary part for four years. Do we have the capacity to remain hungry for at least one day happily? Yesterday, I had told (by mail) the administrators that I would not post for few days. But today, there was a question from administrator. So I replied here.

Mr global soul,

You should have asked PBKs whether they call their Virendra Dev Dixit as Shankar or not before reacting to me. Anyhow, it is OK for me. If I write full explanation, I get a suggestion from administrator to reduce the length. But there are very, very lengthy postings! When a right person speaks, his mouth is closed from all the sides. You are commenting against BKs. In your own website, there is a letter of 2 or three pages in Hindi, "aaj kaa shaitaan" written by a sister which states that "Virendra Dev Dixit is Ravan. He does sin in the name of God". Have you put the same (equal to this) effort to check it? It is better to be dull head than egoistic.

[One thing: BKs and PBKs are the one who have highest ego. Why? Because both consider them to be knowledgeful. So this is the reason of disservice there. What you are doing? Repeating the same!] Please note that I have written all the above not for you. I was just murmuring.

Dear John Soul, Thank You.

There is a saying, "Four men bring can bring horse to a pond. But forty men cannot make it drink." So all will happen according to Drama. But my destiny is in my hand till I am alive. I cannot be sure of others. One thing John, this is a point which I keep myself detached from anybody. In life, everybody needs lust, food and sleep. For the one who has conquered lust, there is no need of help from others. In the sense, he will have no complaints from others.

Again, we cannot make a person to conquer lust. Each person has to put self effort to conquer it. A person having lust will definitely have one or more complaints. So how can I help somebody? So in this Drama, no one can really help another. One can just motivate; That's all! I think bettery to say. One can just try to motivate. No, sorry. It is better to say one can just try to, try to ... try to motivate. That's all!

So forget about others. Just do Self Transformation. That is why BKs' slogan is "Self-Transformation leads to World Transformation".

[fluffy bunny]

There is really no big deal about the Beggary Period ... Why did they go and get jobs like the rest of us rather than poncing off donations even back then? Who made then have to live without working?

It only came about because the prediction of Destruction to happening around 1950 -51 did not happen. The prediciton they wrote out of their official history. Their sugar daddy Lekhraj Kirpalani ran out of money. It is a utterly false myth. No money ... go into business or get a job ... it is as simple as that.

1) Actually, it is very easy to make a horse drink. A single child could do it. All you have to do if give it a salt stick to lick. It will because that is the horse's nature. They very soon after it will start drink a lot. Another false myth ... and this has both a practical and metaphorical meaning. BapDada starved the horses and fed them salt and when they came out of the stable ... they were ready to eat the wallets of their followers.

2) Then BKs do not call themselves "Half-caste" Brahmins. That is also not true. "Half-caste Brahmin" has a specific meaning within BKWSU. There are many other similar errors in your posts. You seem to think that by flooding people's minds with so much stuff you can appear correct. I don't understand why someone that cannot even go to morning class is here pretending to be the embodiment of the Knowledge. If the BKs insist on "serving us" ... cant they send someone more pukka?

3) We know that the Yugya marriages were either fake ... for the sake of service or saving some sister ... or latterly to cheat immigration it would appear. 26 out of 900,000 ... hardly a strong argument. The leadership are all virgin crones or left their husbands and their families. Fact. Show us one living as or in a family. Another falsehood ... "you do what we say but not what we do".

4) Lastly, if all it takes is one lesson and two hours a day, why the BKWSU needs to squander multi-millions of its donors' income every year? On this matter, I agree that by all accounts Lekhraj Kirpalani envisaged a "household path" ... family homes being the centers and not buying big property. I think it is far more likely, as the PBKs interpret, that the bodily gurus, sanyasis and palaces that Baba talks about are the BKWSU leadership.

Visit their website and you can see. Now my question is, is not a website advertisement?

I answered this and we have discussed it before on the forum. What we have been told is that the PBK websites you see are are not 'official' websites, just those started up by followers.

I had a look at two.

1) The PBKs ones provide information, their philosophy/dogma including Murlis etc. The BKWSU put up lots of happy smiling faces, online shops, misleading seminar advertisements and exaggerations of their importance relating to Kaliyugi organizations like the United Nations.

2) So, in balance, I would say no. The one is for education, to serve the goods themselves. The other is for advertising products and services, "the goods" are hidden form the public's eye. The BKs want to hook the customers with a 'soft sell' first, get them commitment before delivering the 'contract'. The 'BK contract' involves more than just monetary fees ... it includes Wills, properties, wages, spare time ... etc. "Everything", as Dadi Janki said.

I know this to be true.

[global]

mbhat,

Which website? I see no official website.

I have seen some pbk posts here and have also seen the words sister used.

BKs consider all males because they say to forget body and consider soul only.

Are you kidding me by this? Why are the Seniors seen as sisters?

If you do not believe in advertising than why on the main site do you mention your UN relationship?

[john]

You said, Murli are read falsely. I do not agree with this. They read Murli rightly.

Which Murlis? The original ones or the re- written/amended ones?

Foreign people are egoistic and just check for everything. It will be difficult for them to digest. They cannot adjust. That is why divorce cases are very high. They cannot tolerate.

That's a very sweeping statement :shock:.