Hello from daughter of BK

[john morgan]

Hello ex-I

I am not sure that you will understand what I am about to say, if you don't please just disregard it. This is after all Alanna's thread.

A sense of family is not just a concept, it is much more. To have a shining brow and recognise others by their shining brow can be a BK experience, part of this is a real sense of family that transcends all cultures as it is a deep spiritual experience. This sense of family is immediate and does not have to be learned. Thank you for reminding me of this.

Kindest regards,

John

[fluffy bunny]

Its relevant because alanna IS relating her family experience as a "daughter" of a BK.

Are BKs of the same "Soul family"? That is an interesting question to ask and specifically to ask of alanna. I wonder is she ... you alanna ... feel yourself to still be a sort of BK or part of their soul family.

John, as I will continue to trip you up on, your experience of the BKWSU was a long time ago when it was much more like a family. Personally, I think those days have gone and it has become much more cynical in its use of such concepts. Pretty much cultic movement that has come along, from Christianity to the Hells Angels, encourages its follower to think they are "one of the family" ... because it works to benefit the organisation. Well, you discover just how conditional this family's love is when you question or you need something as our poll on death and illness shows.

As I think it was the Brother of Child X (one of the abused children) that wrote approximately, "when the BKWSU needs something, it is a family; when you need something it is an organization". At its bones, it runs as a business; in many countries a pretty underworld business as that.

Meanwhile, I am just someone amused in alanna's post to read that the best they think we are is "the Anti-Party" come back again. Another self-fulfilling prophecy that will indicate to them that the End of the World is near (... again). Honestly, where are these people's heads!?!

[john morgan]

Thanks Alanna,

For your honest and illuminating responses to my questions. Nothing of what you say sounds selfish or disappointing to me. I think you are a remarkable young lady who looks at all aspects of life and has very good intentions. You take everything in your stride because you are very resourceful. Believe me I am trying really hard here to find fault with you but nothing at all comes to mind.

It may have been that if you had made the active choice to become a BK, you would have seen a little more in the knowledge though, as Bap Dada says, "practical life is the proof" and you are making a constructive life for yourself which spills over into a real and active concern for others. Yes, your mum and dad have done a very good job. :D

[john morgan]

Hello ex-I,

Nothing of what you are saying is irrelevant as is nothing that I am saying. That we do have different perspectives is true.

It may be that there is a little something a little more subtle than personal history being talked about here, perhaps I was talking about the deep spiritual memories that lie latent in each of us. Regardless I do appreciate your valueable contribution(s).

More kind regards to you than ever,

John

[arjun]

My word! See, this is where I think cultural influences and certain individuals' interpretations of Baba's word come into play. I find it hard to believe that a loving, benevolent god would buy into the view of sexually active woman as unclean - such a typically patriarchal value. The same goes for BK Sisters not being allowed in the kitchens when on their period. Sigh.

From a BK/PBK point of view it is not just the women but also the men indulging in lust that are considered impure and it is not just the physical part of it but also the lustful thoughts and vision that are considered to contribute to the impurity.

I don't know if I have related one of my experiences on this subject on this forum. The last time when I went on a holiday to my native place, I met one of my aunt (a family friend) who knew about our BK background and the food related rules. Since she liked me since my childhood and since I had met her after a long gap, while sending me off, she told me that she wants to invite me for a lunch whenever I visited that place next time. She added that she had been living a life of celibacy and so eating food cooked by her would not come in way of my BK rules. I felt very embarassed because I felt I am more lustful than her and she was proving her purity just to invite me to lunch. I promised to her that I would certainly accept food cooked by her the next time I visit her.

Meanwhile, I am just someone amused in alanna's post to read that the best they think we are is "the Anti-Party" come back again.

sister allana, I would also be interested to know more about this Anti-party that your Father mentioned to you.

[fluffy bunny]

Nothing of what you are saying is irrelevant as is nothing that I am saying. That we do have different perspectives is true.

The difference being that I am trying to work reductionist manner towards an objective view whereas I feel that you are trying to encourage or supplant your BK conditioning, such as "deep spiritual memories that lie latent in each of us". I attempted to understand that within the general "soul family" concept because I don't see strong evidence of what I call family-like consciousness, except where it benefits the business and politics of the BKWSU. I kind of guessed that someone with alanna's experience would either be immune to it or have her own position on it already.

Its remarkable that this forum gives you the environment in which to be the BK the BKWSU won't let you! I congratulate Alanna on pulling through DESPITE the dysfunction and loss the BKWSU introduces into families, seeing it as evidence of her own innate strength and being, whilst welcoming the offer of a "plate of sin" if ever it came my way warm out the oven.

Did they never have you down for being a "second birth Brahmin" and all that stuff, Alanna? Did it not cause consternation that you did not blossom as a kumari ... or do they still "have positive thoughts" for you? Its all very interesting, I do not think that we have had a mature "child of a BK" come forward before. I am sorry to ask if it appears personal but was only one parent of yours a BK? Do you consider yourself to be, e.g. a "lay BK"?

The food cooking issues is a weird one. I mean, WHAT exactly is the magic ingredient? You could have a very mean, dumb, cranky, repressed BK who fiddles the books and their food would be OK ... and you could have a highly intelligent, liberal, social activist who was not a BK ... but their food would not be. How do BKs really know what food is good and not and why if their god is so all powerful cant he deal with what are after all, "His children's" terrible vibes?

[john morgan]

Sorry ex-I,

Whilst your analysis of your own activity is understood by me, your analysis of mine is much more off the mark, good try though :wink:.

[fluffy bunny]

So ... specify rather than just attempt to disarm with such an open statement.

[john morgan]

No thanks ex-I,

We've done that before, I got nowhere last time and neither did you. If we repeated history even the twelve smilies currently available here (is it just twelve I thought it was much more?) couldn't help us. Trust me this one is for the best.

John

[tete]

John Morgan,

John Morgan wrote:A sense of family is not just a concept it is much more. To have a shining brow and recognise others by their shining brow can be a BK experience, part of this is a real sense of family that transcends all cultures as it is a deep spiritual experience. This sense of family is immediate and does not have to be learned. Thank you for reminding me of this.

Yes, that is very true, as I have witnessed this first hand and so has my family over the years. When we have had visiting ex-BKs they fit in just like family. BKs (active one) tend to fuss over my little one and have been most kind in that regard. Funny but Gy sent me info of a book "Journey of Souls" and I think I am getting the premise, which is of what you speak of John. I have often wondered about how one person finds another in a group of say 400 and yet have very similar interests? Yes, we must have some spiritual calling that we recognise in others that seems to bring us closer to one another. :)

I can relate to much of what Alanna has written as I too have lamented the fact that the BK experience blocked any further children, I so wished to have. I guess I will just accept that perhaps the other children I was to nurture are all around me, and some all grown but still in need of being adopted. :D Some times we find the answers to our greatest disappointments much further down the path, so patience is a must.

I am thoroughly enjoying reading Alanna's account as it almost seems like a tapestry of my own life. It is so nice to read of such experiences and I even laugh when they bring back some memory that at the time did not seem funny at all. Time has a way of placing perspectives in place and distance allows us to fully examine the events. I would hope that others will come here as time goes by as I think it can really be helpful and it does create a sense of community.

Now that Alanna has indicated that we are considered the "Anti-Party", a group photo is a must so that we can document this ... avatars will suffice!

Welcome Alanna, I await to read any and all stories that you are willing to share. :D

Regards,
Tete

Please note that I am not a BK nor ex-BK ... only family of ...

[alanna]

On the anti-party - I think my dad actually said something along the lines of 'the anti-party's always been around', I asked what he meant and he mentioned disputes over the BK wikipedia article and the Brother's letter - I am not sure that he was saying that these represent the anti-party, perhaps rather that they were examples of debate and voices speaking out.

From my experience, I think some BK phrases are used without really thinking what they mean - it's been quite funny being removed from a BK environment and hearing certain phrases and words again and suddenly thinking 'ah! that's what it meant!' or 'oh, that's a bit dodgy!' I took so many things on board as a child that did not really have a great deal of meaning - reading discussions here about the use of caste imagery and the hierarchy of souls has been particularly illuminating. I remember drawing pictures of the different levels of the Soul World with different numbers of souls in and never once stopping to think how unegaltarian it was!

Did they never have you down for being a "second birth Brahmin" and all that stuff, Alanna? Did it not cause consternation that you did not blossom as a Kumari ... or do they still "have positive thoughts" for you? Its all very interesting, I do not think that we have had a mature "child of a BK" come forward before. I am sorry to ask if it appears personal but was only one parent of yours a BK? Do you consider yourself to be, e.g. a "lay BK"?

I mentioned my mum in an earlier post - she became a BK, I think largely to stay with my dad and not break the family up, though she did and does believe, but is no longer active. I seem to recall various comments along the lines of second birth brahmin, old soul etc - I think most of the young children got it. But I haven't experienced anything negative whatsoever since I stopped going to class, and those BKs I do see from time to time are totally positive and supportive - no pressure to come back to the fold.

On the family note, I do like seeing them, and I feel very at home with them, but then I did grow up with them so it's not surprising. I haven't spent enough time with any other BKs to see if I experience a sense of family, but I have never felt anything but positivity from BKs in the past - probably typical for a child/young teenager. I don't really consider myself to be a lay BK - spirituality is not really part of my life right now, but I do feel an affinity towards BKs due to my past and my dad's involvement.

I am glad my comments are of interest - it's great to be able to share them - talking to my boyfriend and friends is good, but it's all rather bizarre to them!

[paulkershaw]

I am so generation X ...

Hello Alanna

Welcome to the forum. You pose some wonderful and enlightening words and show a great deal of spiritual maturity and foresight.

Your comments about being 'so Generation X' may be more truthful than what you think. In my thoughts, the "New Age" has to have leaders who are working with deep spiritual values whilst also remaining free of old paradigms and structures belonging to another timeframe, and who can also love their bodies (and associated ideals) for what it is.

Many of these future leaders are said to still be in their youth and some obviously in their childhood at this timeframe.

These "new agers" may have grown up with parents involved in a spiritual organisation and I often think that its the parents "future" spiritual connection which enables the child to be born into that family, before the parent/s enter into 'The Monastry" effect. In any effect, the arrival of a "Generation X" child into a household brings massive change as the parent/s are forced to bring other changes into their own lives in order to maintain themselves.

And often times, my feeling is that it is the parent/s who have to stay in their spiritual life, in order to 'hold' or maintain the energy needed in the child/s life and future role on an 'enlightened' planet, which a big sacrifice indeed. But a sacrifice made in love and for all the right meanings (this probably all happens on a purely subconscious level though).

Hoping this makes sense - any comments in return are welcomed if you feel inspired to share more. xxx p

[fluffy bunny]

Yah, I always preferred 'The Clash' to 'Generation X' but, then, that would probably be showing my age as much as my politics ... I can follow and hope stuff like Paul writes comes true. I am just interested in what timeframes we are talking about until it does.

What about the whole God = Baba equation, Alanna? Who or what is BapDada? Do you think the BKs have "got" God?

I think the BK probably do believe in the Anti-Party stuff. It makes them more important and their lives more thrilling. Just to put the Anti-Party into perspective, here is a photo ... (click to enlarge).

[bkti-pit]

Hi alanna and welcome.

Thank you for sharing your experience. To me it is like a breath of fresh air. It brings a new perspective to this forum, honest and unbiased.

The bottomline is as a BK you do all sorts of crazy stuff, work for free and donate money BECAUSE in your next 21 lives you might be the king of the Golden Age.

I don't agree with this one ex-l. It is true for some and maybe for the majority of BKs (I cannot tell) but it has never been my motivation. My motivation is to make my life better now and help people around me now and I thought you would have known that many BKs feel the same.

Same with Destruction. Although many seem to be motivated but the fear of Destruction coming any time soon, many are not. Many BKs are mainly motivated by love, truth and happiness. I am also motivated by freedom and justice.

[fluffy bunny]

Not letting out of my mind the question asked to alanna ... how do you/these BKs relate to/cope/deal with the constant references in the Sakar Murlis and classes?

I would agree with you. I think that does defines the majority of individuals who enter into the BKWSU, especially in the West. We look for a medium within which to express our "holy ambitions" ... but surely it is impossible to say that the old Destruction number is not the single most inspiring factor of the BKWSU as a whole.

This is the dilemma that I find most interesting because, as we know, the predictions have failed on numerous occasions, been re-written and denied by the leadership. The more tasteful "Transformation" is current in vogue, especially for public consumption. Will they go all the way to write it out all together and with it, write old their old God Lekhraj Kirpalani as well?

To pick up from where Paul is coming ... as the parents die off and The End does not come, will the younger generations of the BKWSU, like alanna, pick up the inherited real estate and transform the old BKWSU into something else too?

BTW alanna, excuse me for asking, but has your Father willed all his wealth to the BKWSU rather than you, his children?