Remembering Shiva

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aimée
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Post by aimée »

John,
I have not figured this out completely either, but it seems that the reward of the first garden of Eden, the paradise of the Confluence Age is a far better reward than being a Lakshmi and Narayan from the second to the eighth. Baba (in Virendra Dev Dixit) says that we have the aim to become Nar (human being) to Narayan in this body itself, the ones who live this body won't attain such a high reward. He also said that the titles of king in Golden Age are just titles, and we are all going to be more or less in the same conditions there, like Adam and Eve, in the middle of nature.
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john
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Post by john »

Raviraj wrote:the correct way of remembering has been changed since 1976, during the times of Brahma, when the knowledge was new, it was said to remember 'shivling' and later children were told to practice remembering 'a fireball' and when the part was coming to its end, Baba mentioned clearly " ho sakta hai age chalkar Yaad ki vidi badaljaye.( maybe in future, the process of remembering might change) now, ShivBaba is disclosing the correct way of remembering, i.e remembering nirakar is Sakar, remembering incorporeal in corporeal.
It is very interesting what you write here. I've never heard of the idea of remembering as a fireball, I don't know if many others have, so it's an interesting insight.

The point 'maybe in the future, the process of remembering might change' is something I've never seen and will explain a lot. Would you happen to know of the exact Murli quote and from which Murli?

Can I ask whether you got your insights as a BK or since becoming PBK? Is this kind of thing well known in BK circles in India?

Aimee thank you for your answers
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john
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Post by john »

My thoughts are that the Dadis and Didis must still be having there sins absolved through remembrance to get such a high position in SatYuga. OK, it may not be the exact best way of remembrance, but it still must be working.

In Sakar Murli 13/02/04, it says;
The Father asks you children numberwise according to the effort that you make. You must also be remembering the incorporeal world numberwise. Children must also be remembering that originally, you are the residents of the land of peace and that you come to the land of happiness.
Maybe it's a case of different and better ways of remembrance, than either black or white, right or wrong, or different methods that suit different souls ... of course, each group likes to think there way is the best :lol:
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raviraj
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Post by raviraj »

john wrote:I don't mean in Confluence Age as a real high position, but as Lakshmi Narayans in Golden Age
Bhai,
Even the position they get in Satyug cannot be termed as ‘high’. Every temples, every idols, every pictures are all being made for ‘Sampanna Roop’ (Complete Form). He is called ‘Satya Narayan’ or True Narayan. The 2nd Narayan or Narayani and so on are not worshipped. The one who becomes directly ‘nar se Narayan’ in the same birth is worshipped; praised in the temples after dwaper.

Those Narayans are incomplete form, for the reason that they study incomplete knowledege of Rajyog in Sangamyug, i.e remembering 'bindu', like every other religion do. Pukka devtas are those who take full 84 births, who remain in this world drama from the very beginning till the end. For instance, 1st Narayan is complete 16-celestial-degrees. When the soul of 2nd Narayan comes from Paramdham the downfall in degrees (15 ¾) begins and till the end of Satyug, it is 14-celestial-degrees. And when the age of duality(dwaper) starts, those Narayans get converted into Islam, Christian, Buddhist, and so on.

So, they are not high. They are those (as Baba says) ‘who betrayed bharatvasis, who started Ravan Rajya, meaning ‘duality’ therefore, in Lakshmi-Narayan course, we are told that it is better to come even in the last prajavarg (subjects) of 1st Narayan than becoming 2nd Narayan.

ShivBaba many times says, ‘... will give you Satyugi birth-right’
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aimée
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Post by aimée »

You are right, I think we are accomplishing what is meant for us. They have a role in the drama, like everyone of us, even the last who will come down at the end of the Iron Age. Everyone will be purified at the end, before going up again, even those who did not ever got in touch directly with God. At the end everyone will recognize Him, recognize the role of Adam and Eve, and the paradise of Sangamyug, because there is mention of it in the scriptures of all the religions.

The difference with those who have recognised the Father (ShivBaba in Virendra Dev Dixit) playing the role after the mother (ShivBaba in Lekhraj Kirpalani), is that they will stay on earth to rejuvenate their body and therefore become the parents of the first generation, the ones of Krishna's (ex Lekhraj Kirpalani) generation. The ones who are representing their religions, come in Golden Age at their own respective time. They won't have a drama of 84 birth but of less. At the end, everyone will realise, the choices they have made. Some have decided not to recognise the Father, out of attachment to the mother, to the institution, maybe to their position ... they will realise that he really was the Father and they have missed the opportunity.
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john
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Post by john »

Raviraj

I think to say they haven't reached a high position you are not seeing the wood for the trees. I understand you want to make the point that PBKs will get the higher positions.

Please stand back and look at the picture of the tree and tell me out of all the 6-7 billion souls they do not recieve a high position. I am not pushing forward BKs or Dadis I am just saying let's be realistic and have some perspective. If you are still unsure, maybe you should ask Baba?

OK, even if you are unable to accept any BKs can gain a high position, do you think they have had any benefit from there form of Yoga since 1969?

Are their sins cut through their remembrance or not?
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Post by bkdimok »

Om Shanti.

Souls, can you explain me what is the difference between BK's and PBK's form of remembrance. If we all are studying Sakar Murlis there it said what we are to remeber God in His true form i. e. point of light, then what's the problem?
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Post by atma »

Bhai,

How do you differntiate one point of light from another? You came to understand this knowledge through a Chariot so should it be any different now?

atma
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Post by andrey »

I think to say they haven't reached a high position you are not seeing the wood for the trees.
Dear brother,
Bravo! You have proved the untrue to be true. Why is their position not high? Because their stage is not high. Their stage is not spiritual. The ones who take less births have some body-conciousness left in them at the end. Those who attain full 16 degrees soul-conciousness only take 84 births. Happiness is there in soul-concious stage, e.g. one may be a minister or king but can be ill and so unhappy.

Health of the soul is faith. Those who have easy faith on the soul and the Father are the spiritual children who reside in Paramdham stage whilst in the body, and bring Paramdham down to this world. Jeevan-mukti is higher inheritance than mukti.

Why do we aim for position? Because we hope happiness may come out of it. But true happiness comes out of the position the soul is in. The higher the position of the intellect - the greater the happiness it experience in this world.
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raviraj
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Post by raviraj »

dear john Bhai,
due to time factor, it is little rush but will reply in good nice time..

regard..
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Post by fluffy bunny »

Andrey wrote:Why is their position not high? Because their stage is not high. Their stage is not spiritual.
Is your stage higher than their stage? Andrey, can you tell us what it feels likes to be in your stage of conscious and what your Yoga experience is like? When you sit down in meditiation, what happens?
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raviraj
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Post by raviraj »

Look at the picture of The Tree and tell me out of all the 6-7 billion souls they do not receive a high position.
bhaiji,
Baba actually doesn’t talk about the gross world of 6-7 billion souls. when he says 'I’ve come for You children', it is meant for beej roop (seed-form-souls) and adhar murt (base-souls) ‘..within this huge world, you children have your own world.. which world? The world of Brahmins. You should live in your world’. Among 6-7 billion there are many who comes as flies and mosquitoes (takes 1-2 birth).

Not often, but sometimes when we go into the depth of churning, we feel like all are devils, they are not even a soul; they are just a box, a corpse. this is the world of prostitutes. ShivBaba has nothing to do with this old world. Father comes to establish the new world. when the total no. of 9,16108 souls will gather in one foundation and one place, Father's task will be finished. everyone's part will be revealed; actual brahma, Vishnu-in practical everything will be clear.

to those souls of broad world, those incomplete form maybe high. but in the eyes of the Father, his children is high; so high, so lovable that he even puts them on his head, like shown in the pictures.. the garlands on Shankar's head. Father puts them on his head, some becomes garland around his neck, some on the arms. Baba says, that is the high position, win Father's heart. those who persits the 'downfall' after dwaper are high for the souls who comes rapidly during and after that Age, who are 6-7 billion souls. 'if the seeds nourish, then the whole tree will nourish'. Father is a 'seed' so, first he transforms his 'seed-like' children, on the basis of which a new tree emerges. like it has been said, ' sari duniya ek din brahman banegi, the whole world(6-7 billon souls) will become brahmins one day.

ShivBaba's glory is immeasurable. He waters his varsa (inheritence) even to those (but as per their effort) who study incomplete knowledge of rajyog in Sangamyug.
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john
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Post by john »

Raviraj

Thank you for your explaination.

At this point we will have to agree to disagree on the particular point of highness, but please also bear in mind I said high position, not 'highest' position and my reference is to all the souls in the world, not just in Brahmin world.

Actually my real point and intention was too make the point of do the BK souls still get there sins cut through there form of remembrance?

The point of trying to make them look high was not my intention, it was a side point, which has taken over, but still we are discussing things, which is nice.

Now we have established your view on BKs highness, can we now move onto the point of there form of remembrance and do there sins get absolved by there method.
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raviraj
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Post by raviraj »

I said high position, not 'highest' position
dear john bhaiji, thanx. at last, you agreed that there are some children of ShivBaba who deserves to be the highest, not high.
my reference is to all the souls in the world, not just in Brahmin world.
Brother, ShivBaba says, ' the world is within 108, the world is within 8, and the world is within 1'. like, what did Ganesh( in the scriptures) do? when there was a dispute with his brother 'Kumar' as to who will circle round the world first, he simply went to his parents(Shankar/parvati) and Kumar, who was little arrogant, started to tour round the gross world. eventually, Ganesh won and as this foundation, before doing puja(worship) of any devtas, stuti of ganesh is read first.

so, if we intent to matter the gross world, we will lose ourselves, our world. if we know the seed, it is not essential to know every leaves, every branches or every pores beacuse when we get the seed we get the entire tree within itself. even kumarka Dadi has said, ' when we change, the whole world will change.' it is meant for the brahmins. we are the essence, the outside world is just our comprehensive reflection. but as we indulge in mundane, we forget this. transformation of the whole tree (6-7 billion souls) is relied on transformation of seed-like souls.

this Gyan is really really deep.
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john
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Post by john »

Raviraj wrote:dear john bhaiji, thanx. at last, you agreed that there are some children of ShivBaba who deserves to be the highest, not high.
Dear brother it is not at last because that was my thought before, it is was you who did not read my question properly and see any subtlety, you made an assumption without asking because you was too quick off the mark to make your point. Maybe you should have enquired do you mean high or highest? Even so you were able to make some good points, but best not to underestimate others understanding of Murli and through mutual respect we can move forward.
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