What if God doesn't exist ?

[bansy]

This could be a stinker.

What if everything we have always believed in, is not true. Would it be something someone somewhere has told us we made a "connection" and so that is it, it must be God, otherwise what else can it be. Or even if there had not been such a "divine" connection or experience, is the concept of God simply just a "confession box, simply a place where you can conveniently put all your blames to".

We are all made up of the elements, and so is everythng else. The opening of the "divine third eye" is to be able see a different world, or is that simply "baloney" or an conditioned thought and experience. Even if you think you got your third eye open, would that mean you saw God, and if so, how on earth is He talking to you at that point in time right then, is he omnipresent or not ? Can He talk to everyone (whose third eye is open) at the same time, but are in different parts of the world ?

You can see how this thread could be a stinker, maybe the path to God is that it comes eventually comes back to onself in the the end. It is convenient to make the end of the journey a place called Paramdham, or Paradise, or Heaven or Nirvana or whichever it has been ingrained into you, but is the journey simply just another illusion as the answer is already within onself.

If someone says, this is all just Maya, well Maya is just as an illusion then as God.

All the threads and posts have not really made headway into finding the clear truth. Spirituality is to be adequate to satisfy your current stage into what truth means for yourself. Why bring God into it, or simply that God is a nice "catch all". (Maybe mixed this with the What is Spirituality thread)

God is simply about Belief and Faith. It means that one needs 100% belief and 100% faith in this to make it a 100% God. But it does not prove that God exists. I only proves that YOUR God exists. (Maybe I have mixed this with the "My Baba or Your Baba thread).

As someone mentioned in the PBK section, how can we be soul conscious or in seed stage if we have thoughts, even if that thought is about God ? An "attached" thought that needs to be let go before we are totally free ?

[bansy]

I was watching a simple nature documentary about the arctic region where year after year, animals there just get born, live, fight for survival, mate, and then eventually die. Maybe even some selection of species happen there, some survive, some don't. But their living goes on. Maybe some of you have seen similar documentaries (ones about polar bears, walruses and penguins etc)

Does God exist in their world too ? Do they talk to God to ensure the fish are bountiful or that a baby seal is just weak enough so it can be caught for the next bear's meal ? Are they in need for the power of Yoga too to mate ? Are they natural in their life and in their breeding and in their existence ? What makes us human beings believing that we are different from them, and we that need to have God ? Or is God just another excuse for human beings to simply show how useless and weak we are.

[bansy]

Ever found how easy it is for someone to tell you that God is here, there, somewhere ?
Never really questioned it much ? It's so easy. And considering all souls are impure, where/who did you hear if from ?

Expand your mind and the whole universe will open up. Think of God and also think of No God. That will basically cover it all, that will be sum total of the unlimited.

[sakaash]

Hi Bansy,

I am going through some similar thinking at the moment, I started the topics in the Newcomer section "Is this the end?" and "Mukrimata". I read your ideas with much interest, I shudder to think that there is no God! Even though I struggle with the idea of faith, I "need" to believe that there is a God, many people do and they search, some search forever, some people think they have found what they were looking for and then there are those who think they found God only to realise that it is not really. I fit in the last group, now I know it might sound strange, but all that is good and pure is what I expect as attributes of God. Yes, I have expectations of what God is like or should be like. This is why I can use my head and heart to make a judgement on this. When I see wrongdoings I believe that this is not of God, hence my turmoil with the BKs, because on one hand they claim that they have a direct access to the all knowing, all powerful, pure, good, God, but yet still I see so many wrongdoings and now I am even opening my eyes to contradictions in what this "God" is teaching.

I am struggling to let go and struggling to hold on at the same time! I think we all know what we would expect God to be like, I couldn't make a definite statement about animals, but I don't think they need this type of "abstract" idea in order to survive ... they have no right or wrong thinking, they kill, they eat, they breed, they experience pain ... but I doubt they have an understanding or a longing to find God - I don't think they have that capacity. We as humans do and I know I need to have that side of my life fulfilled whether it is with the BKs or not. Getting past the BK grip is hard though ... so I have no idea where my head/heart will take me next!

[fluffy bunny]

I "need" to believe that there is a God, many people do

And is not that what they all plug into? The backdoor of our computer left wide open for the hackers to come in ... ?

[sakaash]

Yes ex-l - that's true, I guess we have to make sure our firewall (in the form of our intellect and our heart) is in working order! Unfortunately, mine was offline and has been for a long time in the BKs! :wink:

[fluffy bunny]

Yup, that is what the hypnosis in the meditation course is for ... to disable your spiritual firewall.

"We are not asking you to believe," they say sweetly "... just suspend your disbelief for a while". I know. I was taught to, and did so too!

[alladin]

This is one of the main reasons why sisters-in-charge don't want students to know exactly what happened with people who left, and they discourage any contact with them. It would help followers rebuild their "firewall". So, they want to avoid "contamination" of ideas and lifestyles. One point I was thinking of, reading the hard time Sakaash is going through, is this:

if God is behind the BKWSO, and due to the widespread wrongdoings and inconsistencies happening in the organization we decide to leave, I think God will understand. If God has nothing to do with them, then what's the problem? He'll be happy and help you come out of that bog once you're ready. We looked for God with good faith and intentions.That's what matters. If you marry someone who boasted an excellent financial situation, assets and education, and you discover that he has none of that - in fact he's full of debts and maybe even has a mistress - I think you are entitled to divorce with full rights and no need to feel guilty; except that you may blame yourself for having been gullible. :|

The formula of, "do what I say but don't follow what I do" is just perfect to justify any lack of example and ethics in the sect. Especially in high ranks. One of the features they advertise, and we find attractive when we come in Gyan, is that, "here there are no gurus. We just teach you a method to get in direct connection with God. Unlike other religions, no one in between." We all know that SS are the first ones to step over these beautiful principles, in words and actions, every day.

They claim to be emissaries of God. In the lokik world, if a diplomat, an ambassador doesn't act in the interests of the country he represents, and doesn't reflect and embody its ideals and political line, he would be called off. So, how come the Almighty Authority himself never intervenes in firing corrupt people? :?:

Sorry, I was forgetting some of the typical ready - made answers: :idea: "No one is perfect yet. You are the one who has to change first. They are there to teach us bitter lessons, to test us, so that we can become karmateet saints and go to Paradise" :roll: ...

[andrey]

So, how come the Almighty Authority himself never intervenes in firing corrupt people?

It is said that in our normal life before Gyan, if we did a sin it is one time and if we enter the path of knowledge, then sin becomes 100 times. I am pretty sure evreyone will receive whatever he deserves. It is only when we forget this that we try to act as the Almight authority himself to lay justice or complain for injustice, but in front of whom we complain. We complain in front of fellows. It is said that, if someone does wrong we should report him (to Baba) and we should not engage ourselves in straightening him up. It is not our responsibility. It is said that it is also a sign of anger to hold the law in your own hands. We don't know what is to happen in the future, but we can wait and see with some sense of pity for those who err instead of getting agitated ourselves.

Do we really like to see sorrow even on the face of those we hate? Those who err will have enough suffering to bear so where is the need for us to add some more to that on them with our negative feelings. We should be better merciful. We shold even plead in front of the almighy for those who have erred that they are not punished. However, I am afraid he is even more murciful than us and more just at the same time. If we like someone to be punished, if he may receive even more punishment than we desire for him then if we look at that we will feel mercy. And if we ourselves feel mercy towards someone we can see that there is no such a thing for which mercy has to be felt. It is already forgiven and forgotten. Then we are the ones to be left with the stain in the vision.

For there to be an Almighty authority who straightens up the corrupt ones first there has to be an Almighty authority. I accept whatever you say as a doubt of existing of such. But from my own experience, I can confirm that Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit is definitely engaged in shooting down (with bullet-like points of knowledge) the corrupt ones.

If God did not exist we would also not exist.

[bansy]

I'll push this thread a bit more. Are we ANALYSING God ? Is the basis for God's existence one for analysis ?

I may not know what I am really talking about here, but so I go back to my "animal" example. A frog, this time , (because today I went out with my kid and played with some tadpoles). Does a frog think it needs to know what or who is God ? And is frog a creation of God. What came first, the God or the frog ?

Do we have to prove our existence to say that God exists ?

If God did not exist we would also not exist.

But do we need God to exist ? Does the frog need God to exist ? Have humans throughout time always felt the need to look at God to explain everything when everything is as it should be anyway. Why are birds so free ?

Now here's the real stinker ... if God is already in the perfect form of the dot, then why bother to make his perfect children have a body ? Why not leave us in bindi form ? Hey presto, that solves all the body conscious issues. :P

(PS this is a thread where anything goes, I suppose. There's no real answers. Maybe just absurd questions. I must be mad, because this is hell. :biggrin: )

[jannisder]

Some said, God is invented to take away the fear of death. :doubt: Believing that there is a paradise to come makes it all a lot easier.

[andrey]

We can analize God only if we have some idea of him. In many religions there is not a lot of ideas about him. In the ancient deity religion he is described in many forms with many names. The idea of point of light is that we concentrate our mind. This is not a physical light, it is just a light of Gyan, light of knowledge, like idea.

Animals does not have God because they don't have their mind here and there. God does not create frog. God is there and frog is there, but they never meet to talk together. He only comes for little time at the confluenmce age as we know. When we concentrate our mind on him then we become like Lakshmi and Narayan. Thats why even Narayan is believed to be God and in the early days of the Yagya there has been the discussion that human being is himself God. And we know that once Narayan becomes Narayan there is no God anymore. God is also connected with the creation of kingship. He is connected with the social life of humanity. Nowadays where there are many directions and oppinions it is needed that someone steps at the top and takes the reigns of the rule so that he can create a better world, heaven for us, because we humans create hell.

I don't know if a worm makes effort to become a better worm, but our life will only make sense if we try to become a perfect man and perfect woman. There is some reason also in the family path that God is creating. All the quarelling starts from the corruption of this relationship between man and woman.

The experience of a perfect point of light can be only experienced whilst in the body. We adopt bodies to play our part. Even God has to come to play a part, so can any soul remain free for forever?

Human beings create thoughts and athmosphere arround them and animals are affected through this. So God is related to human beings and through human beings animals and matter is affected so it becomes indirectly also from God.

But what if whatever we do now – it will all be forgotten. is not it strange - whatever we may do, we may think we will forget it, evereything.

This is from the point of view of Gyan. If someone searches for some popular idea about God – one writer was asked is there God and he replied that it does not matter if there is or if there is not, but we should live as if there is.

[mr green]

If you know what life is worth
you will look for yours on earth
now you've seen the light
stand up for your rights