What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

[jannisder]

Today I read the latest Murli and some more BK stuff. When I reed it I feel my blood stream starting to cook of anger. Disbelieve, telling myself that it is all fake! Made up by man, and nothing Godly about it. As example ...

"For as long as you have this body, you have to stay in Yoga, otherwise there will be punishment.

If you don't follow Shrimat something will go wrong.

People don't know anything they are like those who are uneducated, they are completely senseless buddhus.

Attachment is dirt, and that dirt automatically spreads to others souls.

My understanding is accurate, everyone else is lost in misunderstanding.

Do not become a lawyer and use in front of Baba the points that Dada himself has given you. So do not become clever in front of Baba.

If carelessness still comes, then punish yourself. Separate yourself from which you love the most, the task that you most enjoy."

How can all this make me happy, instead it makes me sad. :evil:

[john morgan]

Hello Jannisder,

For the faithful the Murli is a blessing, for those who have no faith the Murli is not quite as useful. The fact that you are reading the Murli seems to indicate that you wish to get something out of reading it other than the disbelief and anger that you are currently experiencing. Perhaps you are aware than many others do, so why not you?

One of the more interesting aspects of my life is self examination, I often look at my reaction to a situation and replay over and over the thoughts attitudes hang ups etc that have lead to my reaction. I like to think that my aim in doing this is not to justify myself or my point of view but to arrive at the truth or as close to it as I can.

As I become aware of how different thoughts affect me I learn to pick and choose what I think. Certain things I leave alone and others I actively use.

It really doesn't matter what others are doing, it is what you do that is important, to be master of onself and ones destiny is quite rare. We are all trying to create constructive thought and action and sort out good influences from bad.

I had the recent good fortune to look after a dog for several days, I consider that the BK could learn a lot from this dog in appreciating me and my talents :D though, they would probably not be that interested in jumping around in surf and retrieving sticks, stones etc. :D

I think, Jannisder that it may be very good fortune that you have a reaction to the Murli, perhaps the way of progress is to make effort to improve your reaction?

Kindest regards,

[tete]

Dude get a smaller stick!.png (65.88 KiB) Viewed 13323 times

OK, I have got to ask, did you throw the sticks with yogi power :P or with both hands? :lol:

[arjun]

Today i read the latest Murli and some more BK stuff. When i reed it i feel my blood stream starting to cook of anger. Disbelieve, telling myself that it is all fake! Made up by man, and nothing Godly about it. As example ... "For as long as you have this body, you have to stay in Yoga, otherwise there will be punishment ... People don't know anything they are like those who are uneducated, they are completely senseless buddhus ... Attachment is dirt, and that dirt automatically spreads to others souls ... My understanding is accurate, everyone else is lost in misunderstanding ... Do not become a lawyer and use in front of Baba the points that Dada himself has given you. So do not become clever in front of Baba ... If carelessness still comes, then punish yourself. Separate yourself from which you love the most, the task that you most enjoy."

How can all this make me happy, instead it makes me sad.

Sister Jannisder,

Om Shanti. I don't know if the above words of Murli are from the official English translation issued by BKs but I agree that some of the sentences of the Murli may upset many non-BKs and some BKs. As john morgan has said, the Murlis are only for those who have faith in it. ShivBaba speaks in front of His mouthborn children. Although He sometimes speaks harshly about some souls (who are also His children), ultimately everyone is going to get the inheritance of mukti/jeevanmukti from Him.

Even in the PBK Murlis ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) speaks many words, which I feel uncomfortable while presenting to non-PBKs, but it is the same case of faith/faithlessness. Also, many of the versions should not be taken in a literal sense. Ultimately, it depends on every soul, what it wants to obtain from the ocean of knowledge. We always have the choice of picking up positive things from the Murlis, which are also presented on this forum under various threads. See for example the point no. 159 reproduced elsewhere in this Section:

“Here everyone is a child. They are not followers. This is a family. We belong to God’s family. Actually, we all souls are children of the Supreme Father Supreme Soul; so it is a family, isn’t it? That incorporeal then comes in a corporeal. Now this is a wonderful family; there is no question of doubt in it at all. Everyone is a child of Shiv. Prajapita Brahma’s children are also famous. We are Brahmakumar-kumaris; the new world is getting established.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 02.01.08, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[jannisder]

20-2

"You can not give or take love from the divine family until there is love for effort."

Effort in the sense of what??? Or is it manipulation?

[fluffy bunny]

Yes, they are full of manipulation, cajoling, threats, brainwashing etc ... he is beating stone intellects to try and break them.

People don't know anything they are like those who are uneducated, they are completely senseless

I agree that the Murlis are intended for those that have conditioned to believe in and accept them BUT I also accept that it take no great intelligence to decode, analyse or even pass judgment on them. And the truth is ... honestly ... they are not that great reading. Nor is Lekhraj Kirpalani particularly enlightened through out them all.

I apologise to the PBKs who place great respect in them and invest great efforts in attempting to decode them. But I think as a community we have to stand back and accept the views of "God's other children", e.g. humanity as a whole.

One comment I would like to make regarding this stuff of "uneducated". Reading all the original documents from the 30s, I see an intellectual insecurity, or even envy, in Lekhraj Kirpalani and the Om Mandlites. Their obvious "opponents", Mukhi Mangharam and many of the Sindhi Panchyats were HIGHLY educated and obviously intelligent. I actually believe that prior to the ruckus, they were trying to talk sense and reason to Lekhraj Kirpalani etc. (And, of course, we have the untold history of his partner and his group of Om Mandli supporters to consider).

Lekhraj Kirpalani was not educated. Neither were the great majority of his followers. Despite any virtues, you see that still today. And yet the early messages were full of accusations that the others were "uneducated ... unself-realised ... illiterates" even - when many of the Om Mandli follower ACTUALLY were literally illiterate and so on.

Until proven otherwise, I take the rationalist approach and my feeling is that they were taking the accusations made against them ... and then turned them back against their accusers. Hence all the uneducated, unself-realised stuff. It fits in which the psycho-drama they were all going through.

When I was a BK, I immediate thought that SOME of the Murlis were LR speaking. This was always vigorously disputed by the sweet but deluded center-in-charge (who eventually left Gyan) and is brushed aside by both parties by the impossible and very Hindu way of thinking that, "oh, it was him but he was in God's remembrance so everything he says at all times is Shrimat". As other raise, when did exactly Lekhraj Kirpalani become enlightened?

Now, since the revelation of 20 years of God Brahma and no God Shiva, I think it is all Lekhraj Kirpalani speaking. It may be Lekhraj Kirpalani in a relatively high state of consciousness ... but only relative to his supporters. That is to say, intellectually, it is not aimed too high ... which is why Western and intellectual BK drift back off into Toaism, New Age, business philosophies and their own opinions. I play the heretic and say, it really is not nourishing nor sustaining enough on its own. I mean, some of the Taoist or Sufi or even modern texts runs rings around it.

Someone on this forum once said that "God (when in Gulzar) speaks with a lower middle class Indian accent" and that, to me, I think is reminisce of Lekhraj Kirpalani. The BKs are incredibly protective and secretive of their Murlis and no wonder. Honestly, it is not enough to say they are only for the initiate ... it is also to admit that some of what is said is pretty awful and only time will tell who or what is behind it.

Having said that, yes, it is also true that like any Hindi or other scripture, they need commentaries to explain but, particularly within the BKWSU environment, they are present and taken literally. I think Lekhraj Kirpalani needs to find more challenging company to bring the best out of him ... BUT like any successful politician or popular leader, he speaks at the level of his primary audience. I also don't believe that they were meant to be set in concrete and "scripturized" as we are attempting.

My 2c ... it someone want to correct me view, or tell me precisely what they are meant for, please do.

[andrey]

The effort is to develop love for Baba and then for Baba's family the love will develop automatically.

In the Murli there are very sweet things i have never met anywhere else. Even if it BK must be a cult and these words of a human it must be the best cult in the world and the greatest human who spoke these.

Sometimes we should also read with the head along with the heart. Sometimes the heart desires something, but the head knows it is beneficial to not have it etc. So if the heart feels sad, what does the head says. Why? There is sadness and sorrow if there is body conciousness, some attachment to something, some desires. Otherwise there is no reason to feel sad.

[jannisder]

You mean I have to die alive first, to not feel sad or glad anything else. Then cults like this BK can do what ever they want. And of course that is what they want so they tell you to never debate with anyone and to explain very tactfully, to put a full stop....the explaining has not been tactfully because love for the family is not automatically developing... :shock:

[andrey]

The love of the family will be developing when there is love for Baba. It is Baba's family. We naturally and automatically love whatever the ones who we love they love. Whatever they love we also love.

To die alive means to follow Shrimat. It does not mean to die to your feelings. You cannot stop whatever the BKs do in the same way we cannot stop poverty, starving, wars etc. We cannot change this but we can change our feeling. If we feel BKs do something wrong we tend to like to change something and to help. But why do we think they do something wrong? Everything is right on its place. Whatever someone does he will reap the reward. If you harness your power in smashing the Bk you will later be praised as the "smasher of BK". We choose what to do with our life. However is it better to ruin or is it better to create?

[jannisder]

I think I would rather be a smasher of BK than a bestower of lies or not completely the truth if you wish.

[andrey]

If you bestow the truth you will establish the land of truth.

[john morgan]

Interesting Sister Jannister!

It seems that you see the Murli as a brainwash. You would rather deal with the Truth as you see it than adopt a pack of lies given by someone else. Probably the BK have given you a hard time, it seems that you feel very angry as a consequence. This attitude of believe just as we say or be damned is typical BK. Let me ask you a question.

Do you think that the BK care about you, your reaction to them, whether you are happy or not or even what you think?

I'll wait for your answer before proceeding further on these lines.

In the meantime I'd like to talk just a little about the author of the Murli, this may seem a little vague though my point of view may have some merit. The author claims that he is God. The one parent soul of all. Of interest to me is the similarity between the words Kalpa (The Cycle) and Sankalpa (A thought).

I personally am not sure about the 5000 year cycle. That science is arrogant can be true, though in defene of scientists their discipline is very exacting and something that many non scientists are incapable of. But could science be mistaken about the 5000 year cycle? I do not enter into theories proving that dinosaurs could have lived in a 5000 year cycle etc. Scientists form theories and attempt to prove them but they also take into account what may disprove their theory. If the theory is not accurate they create another and see if that is true etc. BK's, in attempt to prove the cycle, take their theory and try to prove it whilst ignoring or discounting information that is not in accordance with the theory they are trying to prove. From a scientific point of view this approach is suspect. One thing is for sure, recorded human history becomes very vague after 3000 years or so.

Now lets turn to thoughts, the creator of the Murli teaches thoughts and attitudes. He also inspires effort. Every aspect of the teaching is about thought and attitude creation. He also knew, when the Dadi's were little children all about Angels and Deities, which is what he is teaching people to become.

Say I think I am a human being and I see my situation in terms of my age, gender, family, education, friends, money etc. It may be that I have a constructive life or it may be that I do not. It may be that my parents are worth a few bob so I act to please them so that when they die their inheritance comes to me, it may be that I care not about their money and do as I please. Whatever situation I am in my attention is mostly externalised and what I am is very much a product of my environment.

Now in the consciousness of being a soul (as the BK teach) the lifestyle is more introverted. How I create thought and attitudes is a topic which perhaps did not occur that much in ordinary human life. So I become more aware that I am a creator. I discard useless things and create useful thoughts attitudes actions etc. BapDada doesn't create thoughts of anger , he is very aware of how he creates thoughts. There he sits in Madhuban saying I am God and anyone can go and see him after a little preparation. To each person he says you were a deity and now you have become a human being, this is drama and now I have come to teach you to become divine once more. This is a song, for some it is the most marvelous thing they have every heard, for others - well they will think about it! Sooner or later a person realises that change is necessary, some can take it and some cannot, so they run.

I am a runner and a stayer. What I picked up from the BK was both positive and negative. A conflict with one person effectively ended my BK career. What the study gave me was tools that have proved invaluable over time. For many years I laboured under the thought that I was the only one who had difficulty with the BK, sadly this is not the case. Nothing has changed. Neither is the fact that we are all responsible for our thoughts attitudes and action.

Part of BK life is similar to ordinary life, one has to associate with others, work eat sleep etc. But another part is meditation or to put it into BK speak Yoga! Forget your body and bodily relations and remember me ALONE! Some, when they enter meditation still remember their bodily relations, this includes their spiritual friends or family. In meditation deeper aspects of the person are accessed and much attention is given to thought and attitude creation. This can be done anywhere by anyone. That there is magic in life no one can deny, we all access it from time to time. The concept of a full blown inheritance from God can lead one to that magic. Is it possible to do this when banned or otherwise estranged from the BK? Of course! But... does Bap Dada remember me or call me by name? Nope! The kumaris in their (probable?) wisdom have seen to that!

Each Murli is a master course in thought creation, nothing on earth can stop a person making effort to master their thought processes and the influences that they create through their own attitudes and actions. Part of this process involves controlling the effect others have on ones thought attitudes and action. Exploring this topic is useful for everyone.

[bansy]

The Murli is a summation of words spoken when Lekhraj Kirpalani was alive whilst in the process of becoming angelic, whilst at the same time Father Shiva also giving instructions. Thus they were works in progress. And according to the PBKs, they still need to be clarified and are being clarified.

Hence it is not surprising students do not fully understand what is in the Murlis, reading a book whilst being written. But some PBKs have also pointed out that the clarifications of Murlis done by the PBKs is not much different to what went on with the BKs, only it is gone into more depth. So no new Murli as such has been spoken since 1969 (the BKs will argue that avaykt Murlis are new, though it is debateable whether they are just words of Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) with Father Shiva taking a few hours off away from the Chariot of Virendra Dev Dixit, and where the PBKs will debate are Murlis but clarifications rather than a new Murli in itself).

So in essence, the Murlis wherever or whenever they are/were done are somewhat NOT complete. Whether you do a sum total of Sakar Murlis plus Avyakt Murlis plus PBK clarification Murlis. Someone out there desperately wants these original 3 sets sorted out. However, what it means is that all these scriptures are there to feed Bhakti sanskars, predominantly those of Hindu-related ones. If the sum total of all Murlis were really complete, then all the Sakar Murlis, avaykt Murlis and all the Murli clarifications can be simulatenously be produced for the public for show (a bit like a completed work of art like the Bible or the Koran). But if this happened, the need for "God" would somehow become laid off. And we all know the nearest thing to the sum total of Murlis results in the Gita, which was allegely written some 2500 years later by a sage who was born from a fish (or was it his Father?, I cannot recall the story of Vyas).

So in this context, the Murlis are useful if you pick and choose the parts that make sense to you.

But I guess spirituality is the process of trying to make sense of what doesn't make sense. Because if it did, it won't be spiritual anymore. (Does this also answer the thread on "What is Spirituality").

[jannisder]

Do you think that the BK care about you, your reaction to them, whether you are happy or not or even what you think?

The organization? No, absolutely not! They may pretend they do, since they all have to play their "part" on the world stage as an "actor" they learn BKs how to so called love others or even dislike others to pretend and give me the experience that others are fortuned. Very good thought reform method tough, which is not always bad for some characters.

"BapDada doesn't create thoughts of anger, he is very aware of how he creates thoughts."

Of course, John and for some it works. I wonder how their lives were before they became a BK. Desperate? Or overwhelmed by daily (Godly) joy and happiness?

[peterbindi]

Dear all.

Years ago when I lost the BKs and was by myself I never stop looking for God, Baba. I knew there in the bk was something about God,Baba and this I don,t want to lose for myself. I started to read the Murlis from the internet a lot and you know what happen I get sick every time I read, did not know what happened in me, only dirt came out of myself. But there was always love behind in a small form it was there in the Murli, I see it and feel it,but the sickness was more ... a lot more. I am not a person with a clever intellect to explain, but I can feel and this is my guide at this moment.

Then one day I decided to write an e mail to Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and he sent me back and the feeling I get was total different then from the BKs. It felt as if somebody was there with all the knowledge all the power thousand times more than any bk and it was very very soft with comfort. For me, the advantage knowledge is not the same as bk Murlis, the feeling I get from this is a lot different. BK Murlis are more flat and pbk Murlis have a lot more colours and life inside.

And since we are all not pure there is still a lot of confrontation with the Murlis, still we don't understand all the real essence in the Murlis. It is eternally deep, so I feel this. And then it hurts, sometimes a lot. You know something better to read?

peterbindi.