It's not that bad

[celticgyan]

I have been away for a while and looked at the web page bkwatch. It's a bit extreme is not it?

I understand people have died and this is sad but so have many more in, say, the Catholic church! Applying the same rules we could easily say that any of the major religions are cults. They all have scriptures about the end of time after all. Revelations, for example. When I was with the BKs, I knew from day 1 that it had the aura of a cult but so what? At least I had some great spiritual experiences there as opposed to sitting dumb in a church! I think that on many points of knowledge some people have had misunderstandings. For example, that they criticize all other religions. Not in my experience but maybe that was because the teacher was an ex-Christian. I remember her saying that if Christ and Brahma Baba met they would be like brothers. It was considered a big no no to knock people's belief systems (for religion).

If anything, it enhances your religious beliefs (but I never had any in any case!). Sometimes the road to hell is paved with good intentions right enough but they are not that bad and as religions go are still really the only one that can offer that direct experience (even if like me you did not believe it - it still worked!).

Here is a joke. A Scientist has a horseshoe above the door in his lab when a member of the public enters. He looks up and says, "I would have thought that a Scientists like you would have known better - superstitious nonsense. Does it give you good luck? The Scientists replies well, I heard it works whether you believe in it or not!" I think the BK philosophy is a kind of advanced psychology - but you need to get out reasonably quick. In some sense, they are becoming a religion.

Who is the new leader now that Dadiji is gone?

C.

[fluffy bunny]

Hi Celtic, you have been away for a long time. So much has happened (check out the historical revision section). Janak has been crowned king and been ensconced on her throne in Abu to be surrounded by her acolytes. And, no doubt, enemies.

Do you mean bkwsuwatch.com? Its independently run.

Of course, you are right enough in your assumptions. I feel pretty much the same thing towards most other religions as I do to the BKs. Personally, I just do not have any expertise in them. One of the big differences between them and the others is that the BKs are still a their fresh dynamic state rather than set in stone and shored up by external power structures. There is still a chance to influence them.

"What is the difference between a religion and a cult?" is a question that is widely asked and answered. I would rather be specific and identify "cultic" elements, e.g. personality cults within the religion. The problem is that the BKs are not a sect, are too old to be a new religious movement (although that is the polite term to use).

One of the big issues that the historical revision stuff has shown is that the presentation of the organization has been greatly fabricated, the leadership have hidden this (and more) from the followers, the original messages are being tampered with to glide over anomalies like failed predictions ... and, of course, the principles bent to fit requirements. Yes, again, so what? It happens in all religions. Well, same again, the difference is we are here and now.

Personally, in an environment where individuals are made to be incredibly vulnerable and susceptible to being taken advantage of, I feel this is very wrong. It calls into question the integrity of the leadership.

You are lucky, you had fun and got off lightly. I had to laugh at your wonderful advice which I translate as, "Get in, do the job, get out quick". Other individuals and families have not. Very not. Some people feel strongly about that. Did you read that by 1950 approximately there was apparently no mention of Shiva in their teachings? We have not found any evidence for it yet. That is a pretty big re-write and we are still waiting for an official response. Instead we got sued and they tried to take away the domain name.

I admit there was light entertainment to be had as long as you could afford it, to take time and money out of your family and career, and did not get too sucked in by it all. For those that know their Ford Madox Brown, Pretty Baa-Lambs frollick in the farmers' fields.

The argument against using the C-word is more to do with strategy. Its a bit hard and can be used against you. Personally, if you are young, free, don't have any family being in a, cough, is probably more interesting than being straight and if you are a young Indian woman, it is probably a LOT more interesting than being married/sold off to some family you have no sentiments for. BUT ... having said all that ... I have to admit I am leaning towards the acceptance that the Brahma Kumaris HAVE become to embody all the key elements recognised as cultic ... and that they are cult. I am afraid that personally, I think they have lost the degree of wisdom and guidance required to manage individual's spiritual growth. Perhaps never had it.

Taken at random;

"a religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader"

Key elements;

Subjection to stress and fatigue
Social disruption, isolation and pressure
Self criticism and humiliation
Fear, anxiety, and paranoia
Control of information
Escalating commitment
Use of auto-hypnosis to induce "peak" experiences

CULT, CULTIC GROUP

Deceit in recruitment
Totalitarian
Destroys that family unit
Isolates its members
Keeps non-believers out
Limits development of individual
Exploits and manipulates its members with mind control techniques
Commitment is encouraged during recruitment process
Criticism is met with threats of legal action
Leader and follower consider leader to be above reproach
Questioning the leader, or basic tenets, is not allowed

Its r-e-a-l-l-y hard not to look at such lists and nod.

[celticgyan]

Do you think that the BKs have become a cult or that they always were a cult? I remember them around 1977 in London and then the place was a hive of activity (Kilburn). They really did seem pioneering and they seemed more spiritual then than they do now. It has become institutionalised more now. They were not so concerned with "mikes" and TV - but enlightenment. One of the things taught in the knowledge is that every new religion goes through a cycle. It starts off in purity but degrades with time. This could be said of the teachings of Christ-Jesus who had a simple message of love and peace. Now the Christian Church is above itself and leaders of countries use it in vain to justify killings.

In any case, mabe the BKs are also going through a much faster cycle of destruction - one could almost predict their downfall from the knowledge itself! The level of spirituality (the "vibes") was so strong in the early days. I doubt they are now. Maybe we shouldn't criticise them but just sit back and watch the drama unfolding. At this stage, I would have expected hundreds of "christ-like" BKs wandering the planet doing good and spreading their drishti! There are some amazing souls in the BKs but are they really at that level? If the end is coming soon then they should be!!

C.

[fluffy bunny]

In any case, mabe the BKs are also going through a much faster cycle of destruction - one could almost predict their downfall from the knowledge itself!

That, basically, is the opinion of the PBKs as far as I can understand.

If the BKs were smart enough, and a few are both smart and honest enough, they would realise that what we are flagging up here is not "criticism" but their actual salvation IF they were only able to accommodate and implement it. It is the resistance to change and the habituated dishonesty within the Yagya that are the seeds of the problems.

I think you are right, it is pretty much all in the Murlis if they were to look ... and allow others access to study them in detail.