ShivBaba and Prajapita

[suryavanshi]

Dear All,

Complete Knowledge of the self is true knowledge.

When we say "complete knowledge of the self", then it is the knowledge of 84 births that the soul has taken. When a detailed or complete picture of the 84 births taken by a soul is realised, then only that soul would be considered as true "Gyani soul".

Till then, each soul is agyani or ignorant one. When one has realised this complete self-truth, then there is nothing else left to be known. The soul has become complete and has no desire to know anything then.

This wonderful realisation will be numberwise. The seed of this human tree (soul of Ram) has to attain, or will attain, this complete knowledge first and then it will be numberwise for other souls.

Om Shanti.

[fluffy bunny]

I do not know of one BK that has self-knowledge of all their birth. I do agree in theory that this would be "self-realisation" and it is the sort of "self-realisation" that is always spoken of by saints, gurus, Lamas and so on. It is said they do.

Indeed, even Lekhraj Kirpalani and the all dead Didis and Dadis did not have had this, they ... and the organization still ... has no idea if they took 83, 84, or even 64 births. They have no idea.

A handful of BKs might claim to know one or a few of their previous births and yet how can we tell if that is just wishfulfillment and imagination. Even Virendra Dev Dixit does not apparently know his last birth as Skewakram. And when pressed, the answer you will get is the usual nonsense.

You are right. the entire family parrots "Remember your 84 births ... Remember your 84 births" and yet not one does. If pressed, they just say, "Oh, Remember Baba ... Remember Baba" calling it down to Maya and skipping the question. So much for self-realisation.

Who really knows if they have had 84 births or only one?

[shivsena]

Complete Knowledge of the self is true knowledge. This wonderful realisation will be numberwise. The seed of this human tree (soul of Ram) has to attain, or will attain, this complete knowledge first and then it will be numberwise for other souls.

Dear suryavanshi Bhai.

I fully agree with you that only after Ram reaches his 100% nirakari stage, then He will have a realisation of his 84 births and only after that, all rudra 108 souls will also have the realisation of their 84 births numberwise.

It has been said in Murlis that ''pahele ShivBaba hai swadarshan-chakradhari aur phir woh aakar brahmin bacchon ko numberwar swadarshan-chakradhari banate hain.''(ie Ramshivbaba first becomes swadarshan-chakradhari and then whosoever recognises Ramshivbaba, then that soul also will realise his 84 births). Those souls who do not recognise Ramshivbaba will not get any realisation of 84 births and that is why the vijaymala souls(queens), who do not recognise Ramshivbaba will never get self-realisation of 84 births. (as it has been said in Murlis that only ''brahmin hi swadarshan-chakradhari hote hai, devta swadarshan-chakradhari nahin hote'')

shivsena.

[suryavanshi]

Those souls who do not recognise Ramshivbaba will not get any realisation of 84 births and that is why the vijaymala souls(queens), who do not recognise Ramshivbaba will never get self-realisation of 84 births. (as it has been said in Murlis that only ''Brahmin hi swadarshan-chakradhari hote hai, devta swadarshan-chakradhari nahin hote'')

But the rudramala is said to be of 500 crore souls. The whole world will recognise the Father in the end and everyone will become a brahmin, so self-realisation will come to all numberwise.

[suryavanshi]

How is this self realization (complete knowledge of 84 births) going to occur or in other words what is the process that any soul will have to pass through to achieve this self realization?

This self realization should be based on the formula given in Gyan. It is a systematic process that each soul will pass through to attain this self realization. The number one soul (Soul of Ram) will catch hold of this subtle process first and attain the self realization first of all in this world. Then, it will be number wise for others.

This self realization is partially dependent on the shooting that the soul is undergoing in this new birth as a Brahmin. The subtle shooting of thoughts, words and action that the soul is going through currently in the shooting period does reflect the part of the soul in the broad drama.

Another important point here is that as much as one remains in the nirakari state (incorporeal/soul conscious state/seed stage), more and more one will travel further towards complete self-realization. So, this effort to remain in nirakaari stage is also number wise. Number one soul (soul of Ram) will be more nirakari compared to the number two and so on.

Toh is cchotein sein Sangamyug ke aloukik jeevan, aluokik praptiyaan, aloukik anubhav ko dwapar sein bhakton ne bhinna bhinna naam sein yaadgaar banaa diye hain. Ek janma ki aapki yah jivan, Bhakti ke 63 janmon ke liye Yaad kaa saadhan ban jaati hain, AV Vani 7/3/86.

So, the acts that a soul performs in Sangamyug, the method of remembrance that the soul adopts,extent of God consciousness that the soul develops and all the efforts made by the soul in Sangamyug to become soul conscious will be repeated by the soul in the 63 births of "Bhaktimarg" from Dwaparyug. And whatever is done in the past 63 births by a soul, will certainly appear in front of the soul or will be repeated by the soul in just one birth of the Sangamyug, i.e. the soul will repeat all the 63 births of the past Bhakti in just one birth of Sangamyug.

This subtle Bhakti of 63 births will not be considered to be over until the soul becomes constant and complete soul conscious which is equivalent to the start of the so called 21st birth of Swarg or 1st birth out of the 21 births in Satyug and Tretayug because swastithi sein bantaa hain swarg aur par-stithi sein banta hain nark. So, "bani banaayee ban rahee abh kuch banni nahi"

[suryavanshi]

Some Murli points about ShivBaba and Prajapita

1) "Abh Prajapita aur Shiv dono hi Baap thehre. Baap toh mataa dwaaraa adopt karenge na. Tab Brahma ko khud kahtein hain tum humaaraa bacchaa bhi hon, banni bhi hon". mu 11/12/2001 (Now, Prajapita and Shiv both are Fathers. Father will adopt through mother no. Then, Himself says to Brahma that you are child also, wife also).

2) "ShivBaba aur Prajapita Brahma - Aatmaaon kaa baap aur sabh manushya maatra kaa baap. Yah point bahoot acchi hain samjhaane ki, parantu bacche poori riti samjhatein nahi hain". mu 8/1/1995 ( ShivBaba and Prajapita Brahma -- Father of souls and Father of all human beings. This point is very good to understand, but children do not make them understand completely).


So, here ShivBaba and Prajapita are referred to be the two fathers. One is the Father of all souls and other is the Father of all human beings.

[shivsena]

Some Murli points about ShivBaba and Prajapita

1) "Abh Prajapita aur Shiv dono hi Baap thehre. Baap toh mataa dwaaraa adopt karenge na. Tab Brahma ko khud kahtein hain tum humaaraa bacchaa bhi hon, banni bhi hon". mu 11/12/2001 (Now, Prajapita and Shiv both are Fathers. Father will adopt through mother no. Then, Himself says to Brahma that you are child also, wife also).

Dear suryavanshi Bhai.

Please clarify who is this brahma who is child also and wife of ShivBaba; is it Ram's soul or is it Krishna's soul in Virendra Dev Dixit???

shivsena.

[suryavanshi]

Dear Shivesena Bhai,

No where in the Murli, it is said that Brahma (soul of Krishna) is the Father of all human beings but there are many points in the Murli which say that prajapita (soul of Ram) is the Father of all human beings. Instead it is repeatedly said for Brahma (soul of Krishna) that He is the child, He is the wife and He is the big mother or Jagdamba.

Prajapita jagat kaa baap huaa na" mu dated 22/5/1965

The above Murli point in addition to the previous one (i.e. ShivBaba aur Prajapita Brahma - Aatmaaon kaa baap aur sabh manushya maatra kaa baap. mu 8/1/1995) clearly say that Prajapita is the Father of all human beings.

Is there any Murli point which says that Prajapita is the child or wife of ShivBaba or mother of all human beings ?

[shivsena]

Dear suryavanshi Bhai.

I had asked you a very specific query about brahma, but you are just beating about the bush just like andrey(not being to the point and precise).
You had written that brahma is wife and child and i have asked you who is this soul brahma?? Is it Ram or is it Krishna in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit???
please go through your own post again and answer to the point in one sentence.

shivsena.

[suryavanshi]

You had written that Brahma is wife and child and i have asked you who is this soul Brahma?? is it Ram or is it Krishna in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit???

It is Krishna in body of Virendra Dev Dixit

[shivsena]

it is Krishna in body of Veerendra Dev Dixit

Dear suryavanshi,
Thanks for your answer.
If Krishna is wife and child of bindishivbaba in Virendra Dev Dixit, then please tell me what is the role of Ram and what is the relation of Ram with Shiva.
shivsena.

[suryavanshi]

what is the role of Ram and what is the relation of Ram with Shiva?

Role of Ram is to remember Shiv as much as possible and Ram is the child of Shiv or in other words, Shiv is the Father of Ram.

[suryavanshi]

"Adi Dev kaa barobar mandir bhi hain. Adi Dev kiskaa bachaa hain? Koi bataaye. Oonkaa baap kaun thaa ? Adi Dev Prajapita Brahma Hain, Oonkaa baap hain Shiv."
mu. dated 2/10/1998

So, Father of Prajapita is Shiv or Prajapita is the child of Shiv.

[shivsena]

Dear suryavanshi Bhai.

Can you please give your views about who is Gyan-surya; who is Gyan-chandrama and who are Gyan-sitare.

shivsena.

[suryavanshi]

Dear Brother,

Gyan Surya = ShivBaba

Gyan Chandrama = Soul of Brahma = Soul of Krishna

Gyan Sitaare = First 9 lac 16,108 deity souls of "adi Satyug" or "adi swarg " or "Sangamyugi swarg".

Out of 9 lac 16,108 highest deity souls( Gyan Sitaare), only one star is "dhruv taaraa" or the star who does not change his position (i.e.Soul of Ram).