Are there limitations on the Ocean of Knowledge?

[aimée]

John,
That is a good way to see it, Bhakti is a form of Maya, the illusion that by worshiping any being, idea in the slightest way, we distort knowledge and clarity.

ex-l,
Jagadamba, for the advance knowledge is supposed to be the Mother of the World, the one who should be recognized at the end as Eve, along with Prajapita, Adam.

What happens is that at the very beggining of the Yagya, there was Sevakram (Virendra Devi Dixit in his previous birth) playing the role of the Father. The first mother (generally referred to as Gita Mata in the advance knowledge), who reported the visions of Lekhraj Kirpalani to Sevakram, and therefore created the first brahmin, was the spiritual mother. By reporting the vision, she becomes the mother figure, as the one who gives birth to the first Brahmin (Prajapita Brahma), and lays the foundation for Bhakti path, where knowledge is reported but cannot be explained. Actually, it was incorporeal Shiv who enters into the above mentioned first mother (Gita Mata or first Brahma) to give birth to the first mouthborn Brahmin.

Then incorporeal Father Shiv enters into Sevakram and explains the meanings of the visions to her, and thus he becomes the figure of the Father, who lays the foundation for the path of knowledge.

In this way the above two personalities happen to be the spiritual mother and Father of the Brahmin family. Later on, Gita Mata explains the vision to Lekhraj Kirpalani, who becomes the alokik son, and another mother, who also happens to hear the clarification of the divine visions from the first mother, becomes the spiritual daughter, Radha Bachi (not Om Radhe Mama).

Those parents at the beginning used to teach even Lekhraj Kirpalani, but a dispute took place because Sevakram was strict and would not accept some children (with sanskars of foreign religions) entering into the Yagya. Lekhraj Kirpalani already had the sanskars of a mother, and resisted. Sevakram, who did not have any divine vision, left the Yagya; Shiv continued to sustain the Yagya through the other two mothers but eventually they also departed, and after leaving the Yagya all the above three personalities left their bodies also.

Then it said that sometimes when the ones who should play the role have gone, the titleholder can occupy the post and play the role in even a better way. Lekhraj Kirpalani became a mother, but because he was in a male body, Om Radhe Mama took the role of Jagadamba Saraswati, to look after the sisters in the Yagya. I don't know when she came in the Yagya, and ever since she left her body in 1965, she has been playing a role by entering souls, giving them strength and enthusiasm.

Lekhraj Kirpalani, who we can now be called the soul of Golden Aged Krishna, is completing his education in the actual Chariot of ShivBaba (Virendra Dev Dixit), when he will be ready, he will play a major role in opening the gates of heaven as the world mother, Jagadamba, but now in a female body, which makes more sense in the eyes of the world. So Jagadamba can mean the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani (Krishna) in the body called Kamala Devi Dixit, or Mummy.

I hope I am clear enough, and what I wrote is as accurate as can be, please anyone let me know if there are any mistake.

[surya]

For PBKs 'BapDada' does not refer to just Shiv+Dada Lekhraj, rather it refers to [Shiv+Veerendra Dev Dixit =Bap] + [Dada Lekhraj=Dada]. That is the reason, we don't say that BapDada enters Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit.

And now...here goes another view....

I remember watching a discussion
where Baba explained the meaning of ShivBaba that is: Shibaba= Shiv + the body of Virendra Dev Dixit (that is the body only), and that Ram is not included in this combination because Virendra Dev Dixit that plays the Ram part he has a different part in the drama.


So, we should remember ShivBaba like this: SHIV(point of light) plus body, and we should not remember Ram/Virendra Dev Dixit,Shankar or Brahma(DL).


Om Shanti.

[john]

I remember watching a discussion
where Baba explained the meaning of ShivBaba that is: Shibaba= Shiv + the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit (that is the body only), and that Ram is not included in this combination because Veerendra Dev Dixit that plays the Ram part he has a different part in the drama.

Thanks for posting this surya, it seems a good explanation.

What still makes me wonder though is, what is the explanation of ShivBaba mentioned in the Sakar Murlis, when the body of Virendra Dev Dixit wasn't around.
The term ShivBaba is used quite frequently in Sakar Murlis and usually in the context of 'he'(singular) ShivBaba.

[aimée]

yes, I like this explanation.
In the time of the Sakar Murlis, then Lekhraj Kirpalani played the role of the Chariot, so shiv would teach through the body. The main difference between these two Chariot is the role they play. One is motherly and gives love, but does not grasp the depth of the knowledge, the other is constantly churning, and become the ocean of the knowledge, As far as I understand, the teacher is one, Shiv using the mouth of Baba, but the one churning is the Chariot, Ram, because Shiv does not have a mind...puzzling is not it? ShivBaba anyway says that no one understand who he really is. Maybe it is then one of our main churning, trying to know him...

[john]

In the time of the Sakar Murlis, then Dada Lekhraj played the role of the Chariot, so Shiv would teach through the body.

But it says in Sakar Murli ShivBaba teaches through this one i.e. Brahma Baba. So do you mean Shiv + Body of BB = ShivBaba in Sakar Murli days?

because Shiv does not have a mind...puzzling is not it?

I think this refers to 'does no churning', also it refers to Dieties who do no churning.

[surya]

Hi Dear brothers and sister

What still makes me wonder though is, what is the explanation of ShivBaba mentioned in the Sakar Murlis, when the body of Veerendra Dev DixiIn the time of the Sakar Murlis, then Dada Lekhraj played the role of the Chariot, so Shiv would teach through the body.

In the time of the Sakar Murlis, then Dada Lekhraj played the role of the Chariot, so Shiv would teach through the body.

Well we are getting there.. this is very important because this is also the first lesson.. who is the Father? And I have being following John's questions and churning and I think that most aspects go back to this first lesson.. the big question is: why is Virendra Dev Dixit choosen as a Chariot and how he came to understand his role..

There something very deep here ... if forget or do not remember all these souls around it becomes easy to remember the Father, the one that gives us the inheritance = ShivBaba.

He, ShivBaba specifically said .. do not remember Brahma, Vishnu or Shankar! So John your questions about Vishnu coming in the future are solved!
And do not remember Krishna, Saraswati... and the list is long!
Does Ram give you the inheritance? Does Virendra Dev Dixit gives you anything?
When I was in Kampil, someone in the village told me .. " oh, Virendra Dev Dixit is a big Guru!" Well, he is a guru alright! So do not remember him! Do you know what happens to the guru, don't you!

Just remember Shiv plus the body! This is the combination that Baba is talking all the way since Sakar Murlis.. and at that time again was Shiv plus the body only.

kind regards

surya

[arjun]

Om Shanti. I have carried out some corrections in the post made by Sister Aimee dated 3rd July with due permission from her. The corrections are marked in blue letters.

I am not sure about the following sentence typed by her, where she has referred to Jagdamba as Eve.

Jagadamba, for the Advanced Knowledge is supposed to be the Mother of the World, the one who should be recognized at the end as Eve, along with Prajapita, Adam.

I doubt if Jagdamba is called Eve or whether it is the Confluence-Aged Lakshmi (Vaishnavi Devi or BK Vedanti Bhen) who would be called as Eve. I would seek Baba's clarification in this regard and let you all know.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[john]

Surya2037 wrote

Just remember Shiv plus the body! This is the combination that Baba is talking all the way since Sakar Murlis.. and at that time again was Shiv plus the body only.

In revised Sakar Murli 25/03/2003, which can be found on this website it says
"Shiv Baba now says: Remember me in the incorporeal world."

So how can a body be remembered in the incorporeal world?

Further on near the end of the Murli it says
"In the Golden Age, the subjects too are very happy. They have their own palaces, cows and bulls etc."

So it is saying 'in the Golden Age' there are palaces.

[john]

Also in the Avyakt Vani 14/03/2006 on this website are references to Father Brahma and Jagadamba, but it appears to be refering to Mama Om Radhey as Jagadamba.

On page 2 last paragraph its says
"to be humble and speak pure words just as you saw Father Brahma and Jagadamba did"
Which Jagadamba would the BKs have seen?