Faith and believing

[andrey]

Is faith and believing heretical? Is it something wrong or old?

Children believe easily and are happy. When they play they imagine that the doll is living and that stones are potatoes. For them, whatever happens has utmost importance. They will cry with all of their heart when they lose the game as if it is for real. We can look down on them knowing that they are carefree and have our own big problems, but have we lost that ability of childhood to believe.

Maybe we all had it in the beginning on the path of knowledge and then we grew up and became dry. It is always said that we should keep the child in us.

[mr green]

I don't agree Andey, I don't think we lose the ability to believe at all.

It becomes changed as does all aspects of our awareness as our sexual organs develop.

People believe all sorts of things that are just belief, I personally used to believe God would enter 10 times a year into the body of an old woman, I used to think that when she spoke in a whispery voice it meant that there was a different being operating her voice box!!!!!!!

That's just as fantastic as believing a cardboard box is a spaceship.

[proy]

People believe all sorts of things that are just belief,

I used to believe in Father Christmas. I still remember my disappointment when a school mate told me it was my parents who got up in the night to leave Christmas presents from me. I think I am just about getiing over it now though. :wink:

[andrey]

I also used to believe God comes in Dadi Gulzar. We were once listening to the Broadcast on internet of the Avyakt Vani during the season and i was with someone and he also recognized. He said no one can have this ... rhythm or something like that. The heart definitely feels something, because it is not an ordinary soul. People believed for thousands of years that God is Krishna.

Children also when they play the play of believing it is just a game they accept to play. They know that doll is not-living. When they grow they don't have time to play, they are busy with what is real.

It is also new in the advance knowledge the possibility of existence of such soul (amogst us the human beings) that never loses faith. Faith has helped many people when there was no knowledge, when there was no food, when there was no water and where there was not shelter or there was no way to move ahead. They kept walking and they found knowledge, food, water, shelter and found a way.

[tinydot]

The problem with these beliefs or fairy tale stories, is that the people who understand that these beliefs are not absolutely true, won't acknowledge the fact or the truth behind them in order to gain control of power.

What if the BKWSU instead of saying:

Our organisation is constantly changing in response to changing needs and times.

Said this:

• "Hey folks, whatever we taught you decades ago, are no longer the same as what we are teaching you now. We have some trouble deciphering God's teachings although we sincerely believe He is behind all of these."

Does that sound more honest?

[fluffy bunny]

"Hey folks, whatever we taught you decades ago, are no longer the same as what we are teaching you now. We have some trouble deciphering God's teachings although we sincerely believe He is behind all of these."[/list] Does that sound more honest?

It makes her sound sincere and earnest and the BKWSU sensible. Reading the emails above I think it was actually someone else, Neville Hodgkinson, that wrote that for her.

It is a shame she did not write from her own heart. Who is she? Who is the person behind the role she plays and is made to play by Janki as she is primed for international leadership?

But, of course, the BKWSU HAS profited out of those previous teachings, the leadership HAS asserted their status on the basis of those teachings, and those teachings ARE said to be absolute and from God. So it is as we have discussed, ethically and theologically problematic for them to revise them.

... and, in my opinion, utterly fraudulent to re-write the history.

[bkti-pit]

I agree with you 100% Tiinydot. Why not simply tell us straight what happened, how it happened , how the concepts developed ... I think there would be much more benefit for everyone than being lied to. And why not humbly acknowledge that mistakes have been made?

I remember Dadi Janki telling how their experiences with Brahma Baba were such that they just believed this was God and did not differentiate between Brahma Baba and Shiv Baba and then telling the story of how the concept of BapDada emerged. I was really touched by that.

We have some trouble deciphering God's teachings although we sincerely believe He is behind all of these.

This is how I feel myself anyway and I see nothing wrong about it.

He says that he explains very clearly but 90% of it is not so clear to me. On the other hand he also says that these are very deep secrets, which I interpret as: not many will really understand. And then he also says to think about it, to churn the knowledge and decide for ourselves if we think it is true. I believe there is benefit in that. This is not blind faith, he says, this is about understanding. What's wrong about admitting that we do not understand everything and it can be opened for discussion?

I wonder if Truth is not really hidden in the process itself. It may never be possible to neatly and fully frame Truth in words.

We teach soul consciousness but I feel I am only giving a basic concept, a few hints and I cannot say that I really know what soul consciousness is. It seems to me that the real thing is the journey itself, my experiments with it, my churning on it. It is not something that I can put in a box ... It is the same thing with God, eternity, the cycle of time ...

The same applies to science. Although it is often presented as hard facts, it is full of holes. It is a process of understanding, constantly readjusting to new discoveries but, although incomplete and imperfect, it is very useful. In the same way my understanding may be incomplete, it may be seen as mere child like beliefs but it has been helping me a lot.

More at some other time ...

Love to all!

[fluffy bunny]

I remember Dadi Janki telling how their experiences with Brahma Baba were such that they just believed this was God and did not differentiate between Brahma Baba and Shiv Baba and then telling the story of how the concept of BapDada emerged

I remember the very same stories to the very same questions but having read the original documents and letters I would say it is clear that they just did not have any clue or idea at all about Shiva ... Prajapati God Brahma was their god confirm by all the supernatural events happening around them

I asked personally asked such question and, I must say, I feel let down and deceive by the lack of full disclosure. I still want to know HOW and WHEN Shiva entered the equation. You cannot tell me NO ONE wrote it own!!! Not even Lekhraj Kirpalani in his diaries.

• "Woke up this morning. Realised I was not God it is Shiva inside me ..."

[bkti-pit]

When I heard Dadi J telling her story I did not know what I learned here but it sounded as if they did not care if it was Shiva or Brahma. Now I understand that they did not even know that Shiv was there, or was he?

I cannot remember her exact words but it makes sense that she just experienced so much love, etc from Brahma Baba that she was just lost in that, did not care for anything else and was very happy with him being Prajapati God Brahma. It was interesting to know how the BapDada concept came about but she did not say anything about how Shiv came into the picture.

[tinydot]

But, of course, the BKWSU HAS profited out of those previous teachings, the leadership HAS asserted their status on the basis of those teachings, and those teachings ARE said to be absolute and from God. So it is as we have discussed, ethically and theologically problematic for them to revise them.

And the only way for them to get out of this mess is to use the legality of man-made laws invented by Shudras in the US and worldwide.

The undemocratic attitude of the BKWSO leadership is using the USA Law which has evolved throughout the centuries using the democratic principles of the Shudras.

[jannisder]

Get out?? What do you mean, they never get out! They end up like Scientology with lawsuits to them!!

What do you think, that they can get away with all the ******* they bring about!! Its all in the open now and just a matter of time. The media shall be all over them and many shall feel so ashamed and embarrassed for ever being part of it.

[abrahma kumar]

Thanks tinydot. So good that it needs repeating. I must really look for the memorial of this in the Scriptures from whence Gyan came.

But, of course, the BKWSU HAS profited out of those previous teachings, the leadership HAS asserted their status on the basis of those teachings, and those teachings ARE said to be absolute and from God. So it is as we have discussed, ethically and theologically problematic for them to revise them.

And the only way for them to get out of this mess is to use the legality of man-made laws invented by Shudras in the US and worldwide.

The undemocratic attitude of the BKWSO leadership is using the USA Law which has evolved throughout the centuries using the democratic principles of the Shudras.

The BKWho?
regards
abek