Bridge between Shankar Party and Vishnu Party

[fluffy bunny]

When he says, "You", does he say it in the singular or the plural? I don't know how Hindi handles multiples like that.

Vous or tu?

[new world]

Murli describes Bharat as the most elevated & the most degraded. In Murli it is said that Bharat (the soul of Prajapita according to PBKs) was 16 degree complete at the beginning of the Golden Age, when he was in his the most elevated stage. BKs & PBKs believe that with the passage of time, dignity of Bharat (Prajapita or whoever he may be) decreases so that at the end of the Iron Age, when he is in his the most degraded stage, he becomes nearly degreeless (Kalaateet), i.e, at the end of the Iron Age, he possesses only 2 or 3 (or less than 2 but greater than 0) celestial degrees.

In other words, he never achieves the stage of 0 celestial degree level (believed by BKs, PBKs). And BKs, PBKs also accept that with the practise of RajYoga, Bharat (or any other soul) regains his original level of complete 16 degrees from the lowest level of 2 or 3 (or less than 2 but greater than 0) degrees. Thus during the whole cycle of the World Drama, out of 16 degrees, Bharat looses approximately 13 or 14 (or more than 14 but not complete 16) celestial degrees. Then logicaly we have to accept that Bharat never ... never looses 2 or 3 celestial degrees, i e, 2 or 3 degrees are eternaly fed within him. But is this acceptable??? This is not my conclussion. I've derived it from BK, PBK consideration that Bharat (or any other soul) never achieves 0 celestial degree level.

In 7 day course of BKs we are taught that we receive the inheritence of peace, bliss, happiness etc from God (Shiv), so He is our Supreme Father. All of us believe that all our attributes - peace, bliss, happiness etc are inheritence from God Shiv which we receive from RajYoga meditation. Only God is self-enlightened & we have to totally depend on him for our enlightment. Then we have to receive each & every extent of peace, bliss, happiness etc only from God, as he is the only one source of peace, bliss, happiness etc.

Now peace, bliss, happiness etc are such attributes of any soul (including that of Bharat) that define celestial degrees of that soul. And according to BKs & PBKs, as the soul of Bharat(& any other soul) never achieves complete 0 celestial degree level, then this also mean that there is no complete 100% loss of peace, bliss, happiness etc within Bharat (& any other soul). Thus some extent of peace, bliss, happiness are fed eternally within the human soul (which we does not receive from God???).

Thus from this BK, PBK consideration, we come to the conclussion that though we have to depend on God Shiv to achieve peace, bliss, happiness etc, we are not completely dependent on Him to achive peace, bliss, happiness, as some extent of peace, bliss, happiness are eternaly fed within us. Thus we come to the contradictory conclussion that every extent of our attributes - peace, bliss, happiness etc - is not necessary to consider as the inheritance from God. & to some extent we are also self-enlihtened, as some extent of our attributes & celestial degrees are eternally fed within us (not my opinion, just concluded from BK, PBK considerations), i e, some amount of peace, bliss, happiness, dignity & celestial degrees are not developed by the method of RajYoga, as these attributes are already & eternally fed within us like built-in program of a computer.

But this is contradictory to the belief that only God is self-enlightened & each & every attribute of us is inheritance from him. Then we become partial children of God, as some of our attributes are not inheritance from him. Are we really self-sufficient & self-enlightened to some extent or totally dependent on God????

I've got satisfactory explaination only in Vishnu Party philosophy in BKWSU cults. They believe that everything has emerged through or created by God. Then the human soul is completely his creation. So each & every attribute & every amount of celestial degres of any soul have emerged only through God Father. There are no any trace of peace, bliss, happiness, dignity & celestial degrees fed within us, i e, there is no any built-in program within us. Everything in us has completely emerged through God.

ONLY THEN WE CAN ACCEPT THAT WE ARE NOT PARTIAL CHILDREN OF THE GOD & ONLY HE IS SELF-ENLIGHTENED & WE HAVE TO TOTALLY DEPEND ON HIM TO DEVELOP OUR ATTRIBUTES & celestial DEGREES.

[new world]

Bro ex-l & andrey, it is said in Murli that 'God is one. Unka bachcha bhi one kaha jaata hai Trimurti Brahma devtaon me bada Shankar' (Murli date 10-2-72) meaning God is one. His child is also called as one who is Shankar elder in Trimurti Brahma deities.

No doubt, this is a very good Murli point for churning. And it would be better if this Murli point is discussed in another thread. Dear administrators please move this topic at another location. Andrey is always interested in uncerned topics.

[abrahma kumar]

If anyone has managed to discern the value that the Vishnu Party brings/adds to this website please share. Thanks.

new_world, you are talking nonsense.

sakshi Delhi, your student's articles - so he himself refers to them - are nothing more than propaganda, the same as yours were, for the Vishu Party. God's mercy on the soul's that get taken in by your oklox.

Arjun Bhai, is the Vishnu Party after your student's?

[mr green]

Like a bridge between Vishnu and Shankar ... I will lay me down ... (to the tune of 'Bridge over Troubled Water').

[abrahma kumar]

Like a bridge between Vishnu and Shankar ... I will lay me down ... (to the tune of 'Bridge over Troubled Water')

Hey mr green, that is supposed to be an inspirational song! So maybe we better not refer to it here lest somebody decides to back away from the cliff edge :evil: ... and run across the bridge instead. I, for one, would not want to be accused of encouraging or even facilitating that sort of thing.

[new world]

Bro abek, for the first time I've got satisfactory (at least for me) clarifications of some Murli points when I went through Vishnu Party literature. Let me please share these clarifications with you & other respected members. And it's not necessary to answer my queries. But I request all of you to at least churn about the Murli points I am going quote here. In a Murli point, ShivBaba is termed as 'Baagwaan', i.e. gardener. I've discussed this topic. Possibly you have read it. Only in the Vishnu Party philosophy, I've received the proper explaination nf that Murli point, as the Vishnu Party believe in more than one Kalpa Tree.

I've observed that in the BKWSU circle, for the first time, Vishnu Party has presented some revolutionary perspectives that are very hard for some orthodoxist BKWSU members. I am sure that none of us has possibly gone through the Vishnu Party. At least let me try to understand them. Thanks.

[john]

Can 'ShivBaba is permanent' not refer to a permanent 100% state of purity? Why does it have to refer to some soul being permanent on planet earth ... hmmmm, why? Where does it say permanent on planet earth in Murli?

If it doesn't say then are Murli points being warped to suit an agenda?

[alladin]

AK asked "If anyone has managed to discern the value that the Vishnu Party brings/adds to this website please share. Thanks."

Since SS were always against Double Foreigners wanting to learn Hindi (waste of time they said, but I suspect that it has to do with the possibiliy for Double Foreigners to understand and appreciate the Murli prior to translation, and also communicating with Bharatwassis who don't speak English!), Baba is giving us a chance, online, to get free Hindi courses.

Little by little, if we apply ourselves to that, we can pick up some Hindi! At least, that's what I think when I find some posts + topics a bit boring or hard to follow :roll:.

[new world]

Bro John, now I've come to the conclussion that Murlis & Avyakt Vanis should be understood through an totally different perspective. During 70 years of Yagya, approximately 13,000 Murlis, hundreds of Avyakt Vanis & hundreds of clarification CDs/VCDs have been delivered. But until even the basic concepts like ShivBaba & BapDada, are not clear. Vishnu Party is going to present an alternative perspective to understand Murlis & Avyakt Vanis. Thanks to them.

[bansy]

Vishnu Party is going to present an alternative perspective to understand Murlis & Avyakt Vanis.

The Vishnu Party repeatedly indicate they wish to have no dealings with the BKs or PBKs. Not sure what Murlis and Vanis go to do with it? That needs to be clarified with the Vishnu Party.

If you want to understand the Vishnu Party, it seems you need to make a total break from BKs and PBKs. However, it just happens, ironically, it seems that the Vishnu Party spawned from the BK/PBK tree so not surprisingly the lure of BKs and PBKs is enticing.

The BKs got hold of the roots of "a Tree" first, and trying to grab that position instead of being one of the leaves or branches is the task ahead for the Splinter Groups. They'll have to uproot that "Tree" or plant their "own Tree" and make the BKs a branch in which case there is little to mention about.

I do agree that the Vishnu Party offer an alternative at looking at things, there is a lot to take in especially if you like science, but in order to do so, you simply need to put away all the BK and PBK thoughts.

Going through tons of knowledge and not understanding it does not make that knowledge is rejectable. Some things are apparently clearer to others though not to one ownself, though it may not be able to simply explain the differences. Its a personal feeling (i.e. there are plenty of non BKs who have never touched "Gyan" before, but are totally at ease with oneself and happy in their lives and their own spirituality). And hence I wish all persons good luck in their spiritual journey from whatever their roots come from to wherever it takes them. One soul does not need justification from another soul for their spirituality.

[andrey]

When he says, "You", does he say it in the singular or the plural? I don't know how Hindi handles multiples like that. Vous or tu?

This matter used to be discussed, here.

[paulkershaw]

One soul does not need justification from another soul for their spirituality.

You Go Girlfriend! You rock.

[new world]

What do you mean paulkershaw?

[beejroop]

Vishnu Party is going to present an alternative perspective to understand Murlis & Avyakt Vanis. Thanks to them.

Yes , brother you have understood the truth now. Congratulations to join Vishnu Party.