When do you know you are a BK or a PBK and use titles?

[bansy]

I'd like to follow up on from Sparkal's comment in the thread 'PBKs and BKs views on the "ex-BKs'

First we would have to ascertain what a "BK" is before we start sorting out the rest.

The moment I project "A" or "the" truth, I immediately exclude all others who do not see MY truth. And my truth IS THE truth I can assure you, I mean, it has to be, please, let MY truth be the only truth for all others, my truth mechanism needs fed, it needs that hit. So, this devotional mechanism within us which does not go away but transforms, what am I transforming my truth mechanism into. We can currently observe this mechanism at play with football Bhakti and devotional behaviour towards movie and pop stars. There seems to be this basic need to belong to some tribe or other, or is that another aspect again. Is there the parochial tribal thing, then the devotional religious thing which belongs to a temple/church/path of some kind? I guess we have not had B.O. and X.B.O. factions yet, or have we?

Thus when does one become, or who decides when one becomes a "B.K." ? Do you just add these initials whenever you like ?

Is this after you taken the 7 day course, or after becoming celibate and vegetarian for 1 month, or after listening to the first Avyakt BapDada message, or after you got your ring at Madhuban, or etc ?

I always thought a soul became a "B.K." after attending morning class and meditation, AND studying the daily Murli for at least a month, AND practising all the maraydas. Not just partial commitment. After that month, how pukka you want to become is/was up to you. OK, each person has different levels of purity so do you get approval depending on "who you know", before having the illustrious "B.K." initials to put in front of your name ?

PBKs : On a similar note, when does one have the entitlement of adding "PBK" in front of one's name ? Is this when the soul completes the bhatti at Kampil, or after signing the addifit ?

[arjun]

PBKs : On a similar note, when does one have the entitlement of adding "PBK" in front of one's name ? Is this when the soul completes the bhatti at Kampil, or after signing the addifit ?

Om Shanti. The official line about becoming a PBK may be what you have written above, but according to Baba every such soul is a PBK who on the basis of the study of advance knowledge develops an unshakeable faith on the corporeal role of ShivBaba being played presently. Besides, one has to take a vow of purity or celibacy and pledge to follow the Shrimat as given in the Sakar Murlis/Avyakt Vanis published by the BKs and the Murlis being narrated by ShivBaba through the medium of Shankar (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) and also practice it vigorously.

Mere submission of an Affidavit does not make anyone a true PBK. Some such PBKs who have submitted letters of faith or affidavits have become ShivBaba themselves now and attacking the same Mama and Baba whom they have accepted as their spiritual parents in the affidavits. But there may be many souls (especially mothers) in bondages, who might not have met Baba but have full faith in the advance knowledge and the corporeal role of ShivBaba. They are definitely entitled to be known as PBKs.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[sparkal]

Perhaps one can consider themself a BK when they start wondering if they are a BK, and have made the crossover when they start to doubt that they are indeed a BK. I remember these doubts, ridiculous of course, but necessary perhaps. Then there is the post honeymoon times.

The aim is not to become a perfect BK, but to become that which we naturally are. I see no need for fancy titles such as Angel if it is simply what we are. Others may require fancy titles, whatever.

[raviraj]

But there may be many souls (especially mothers) in bondages, who might not have met Baba but have full faith in the Advanced Knowledge and the corporeal role of ShivBaba. They are definitely entitled to be known as PBKs.

arjun is correct.

Maybe according to BKs term a soul cannot consider himself bk until he completes 7 days course in bk centres; but in my opinion, considering oneself bk is with mind and intellect. Here maybe certain criterias to say, "I am a bk" but on one side, there are some souls (like matas in household) who becomes nischaya buddhi even taking a limited Gyan through books or some printed Murlis. And on the other, some souls (like arjun said) who completes 7 days course in centres, becomes regular and later goes away. I think the former ones are entitled to be known as bk. And the same applies to advance knowledge.

But it doesn't mean that the bhatti is secondary option; one must definitely have to complete bhatti in Baba's house. As for the bandheli matas, Baba often says that if they are filled with Baba's love and Shrimat then there home is itself a place for bhatti. That is the consolation Baba gives to Matas. As for the kumars and kanyas, baba [Virendra Dev Dixit] says, "kumar jo chahe so kar sakta hai, [kumar can acheive whatever they will]". So, its not the question that they cannot become pbk because they have such and such complusion.

It is just an ignorance.

[bansy]

Firstly, I agree this thread touches a fuzzy area and there may not be any full or straight answer (at least from me), but we are all part of it and can also help us to understand who and how each of us plays our roles.

Yes, the nischaya buddhi for all souls span a wide range, some souls are just pure whilst other souls need to make effort to become pure, however all souls need to understand and maintain efforts to remain or become pure. That seems to be an underlying principle in Raja Yoga, and thus all those who belong to the Godly University are Godly students in the eyes of God (as well as being his children).

However, there are also souls who have not gone through any Raja Yoga study. Christians, Buddhists, Muslims etc who, in terms of the Raja Yoga ladder do not have 84 births, but happen to be pure during this current birth. It could even be their only birth. So purity alone cannot make who is a BK or not.

The term BK is really a fallout from the Hinduism/brahmin, as I look at this from a western perspective. I mean could all of us get a book on medicine and human physiology, bandage a leg, and claim ourselves to be a doctor. Or take a bunch of herbs mix it up and apply it, and also be called doctors?

Knowledge, Yoga, Seva and Dharna are the main subjects, but if a students completes a 7 day course and is asked by the organisation to help out with some service programme or event, is entitled to claim to be a "BK"? Can one choose to call themseves a "BK" without guidelines ? Maybe this is where the trouble lies, as mentioned in other threads, there are some more affluent members of the BKs who use their material advantage to belong to organisation and make claim to be called BKs. Aren't the titles themselves somewhat "body conscious" ?

I prefer to use the term "Godly student" as this encompasses study and practice. I also feel one does not need to indicate to another that "I am a BK" , as each souls' connection with the Supreme Soul is of the self, it's one's own and no other. After all, someone who has been in Raja Yoga for 1 day can love God equally as much as another in 50 years, wisdom is not measured in time or space.

[arjun]

Om Shanti.
I don't know if any formal rules have been framed for the BKs or not, but as far as PBKs are concerned, a set of rules has been framed for them on the basis of Murlis and avayakta Vanis under a document titled 'AIVV-An Overview". I quote:

"The following rules have been framed on the basis of the Gyan Muralis and Avyakt Vanis for the character building of the members and the smooth running of AIVV, which are expected to be followed by the members:
1. Inculcation of purity in thoughts, speech and actions and renunciation of vices like sex-lust, anger, greed, attachment and ego which are born from body consciousness.
2. Eating pure and vegetarian food cooked in the remembrance of God and in soul consciousness. The consumption of wine, tobacco, betel leaves, drugs etc. which bring impurity in mind and body , is prohibited.
3. Practice of RajYoga (meditation) at Amrit Vela (between 2 A.M. to 4 A.M.) for the experience of peace, pleasure and powers by self and others and then listening to the Godly knowledge regularly after the daily ablusions. Any person can inculcate divine virtues through this practice and bring about world transformation through self transformation.
4. Leading a life of simplicity, but high moral standards. The eating, living, clothing etc. should be simple but the behaviour should be great.
5. At AIVV there is no seeking of cash or kind from any member directly or indirectly; because God’s Shrimat (direction) is that it is better to die rather than to beg. That is why, there is no donation box at AIVV. We believe that whatever is obtained easily is like milk, whatever is obtained on seeking is like water and whatever is snatched from someone is like blood. No cash or kind will be sought from the seekers of knowledge coming to the Geetapathshalas for the practice of RajYoga and listening to knowledge. Godly version in this regard is as follows:-· “You say that we do everything for ourselves with our own expenditure. How can we do anything with others’ expenditure? That is why Baba always says-it is better to die than to beg. Whatever is obtained easily is equal to milk, whatever is obtained upon asking is equal to water.” – Murli dated 7.5.95, page 3 & 4

6. The male members of AIVV can perform the service of giving the message of the knowledge being given by Supreme Father Shiva to others and bring them to the training centre, Spiritual Centres and Gita Pathshalas of AIVV. The service of giving the basic or advance Godly knowledge to the new seekers of knowledge will be performed by the spinsters (kanyas) or mothers staying there. Godly version in this regard is as follows:-
· “You devis only become particularly instrumental in giving the knowledge. Although brothers also explain in the exhibitions etc., but mostly you mothers only show the way by becoming Brahmani (teacher). That is why Devis (female deities) are more famous.” – Murli dated 14.10.68, page3

7. Publicity of the Godly knowledge with minimum expenditure. Invaluable money is not spent by the AIVV in organizing any public programme. Neither our spiritual mother-Father, nor the members of AIVV accept any kind of gift, money or public award from any non member,government or non government officials .
8. AIVV shall not perform any task or business for the sake of earning financial profit, but their service will be with the aim of world benevolence."

The above rules are basically meant for those who consider themselves to be PBKs, but their implementation in practical life depends on every individual independantly. It would be an exaggeration to say that I or all other PBKs follow these rules strictly. But we are making efforts to achieve this ideal stage with the help of power received from God Father.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[raviraj]

2. Eating pure and vegetarian food cooked in the remembrance of God and in soul consciousness

There are some pbk souls who work in army. They are bound to eat the food made in the cookhouse. Whether they pick up just vegetarian dishes or buy the food from NAFFI or any but still it is supposed to be prepared without baba's rememberance. In this case they have to make food for themselves which is not possible. So the above quote may not apply to those PBKs (particularly kumars) working in such situations. But if the food is consumed in baba's Yaad, then baba says it can never have negative effect on our man and buddhi [mind and intellect].

'Yaad is the biggest prasad (token) of bahgvan'

[bansy]

the food is consumed in Baba's Yaad,

Do PBKs give "drishti" to their food to purify it before consumption, the way BKs do ?

[atma]

Bhen Bansy,

No.

No one but Shiva can give drishti, only he is pure.

atma

[raviraj]

Do PBKs give "drishti" to their food to purify it before consumption, the way BKs do ?

pbk souls or any other human soul are not worthy of giving dristi. dristi is taken from the one who is the 'everpure'.

during the period of brahma baba, only ShivBaba used to give dristi through him. and after his demise, when they did not find a corporeal form, then senior Dadis started giving dristi. this method has become so deep rooted now that everyone receives dirsti from one another; if a human soul give dristi to each other, the vibration will start becoming more impure, more corrupt.

that shiv jyotibindu is still in-person (corporeal). shiv, in-person [via Virendra Dev Dixit], is called ShivBaba. until he unite all the 108 souls in one 'sneha roopi mala', he cannot leave his task of establishing the New World and go away and let the children do it. he defintely has to change his form when the love of a Mother (through Brahma) couldn't complete the task. so, we should be taking the dristi from ShivBaba, not from impure humans, not even giving ourselves dristi to food or anything. it is not the matter of giving dristi ourselves, it is all about our Yaad of ShivBaba while having it.

[shivsena]

But he wishes to prove and discuss only one issue only with the PBKs (prospective candidates for the rosary of 108), that Shiv is not giving knowledge through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit now but will give in future. He has the same answers to all the questions raised by PBKs and same questions to all the answers given by PBKs/ Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit. If we were to believe him, all the PBK members of this forum should change their category to 'prospective PBKs' until we get a clearance from him to revert back to the category of 'PBKs'.

Dear pbk brothers,

Since arjun Bhai has suggested to add/change a category of "prospective PBKs", then let us all first analyse whether we have really become PBKs or not.

First of all the word 'pbk' means that we are all the children of both jagatpita (Father) and jagdamba (Maa), as opposed to BKs who are only the children of mother. Now those pbk children who have seen both jagatpita and jagdamba in person can be called as PBKs in principle but what about those PBKs who are being born after jagdamba Maa has left the Yagya in 2001. Can they call themselves as children of both mother and Father (as they have never seen their mother)? Is it not necessary that both parents have to be present physically to produce children who can then rightfully be called PBKs. That is what i have not been able to understand fully.

Also when we write our letter of faith, we accept Jagatpita and Jagdamba as our Father and mother and so we become their children. But inspite of giving in writing, both Jagatpita and Jagdamba call us anilbhai- raghubhai- rajni behan- meena behan- etc etc. They never call us baccha and bacchi WHY??? Because there is no surety that even though we become PBKs and give in writing also, there is no guarantee that we will not have any doubt in future and leave Bap's hand (as is evident by the fact that many former PBKs have had doubts and have left Baba's hand and returned to lokik life or formed their own groups).

Once Baba was asked this question by one brother, "Baba, we all children call you Baba-Baba but you call us Bhai-behan, why is it so?" Baba replied, ''that children have accepted Baba but Baba has not yet accepted the children; they will be accepted as children only when 108 rudramala will be formed (vasudeva kutumbkum) and all will be united by one thread of Godly knowledge. All will be of one opinion and all 108 will start revealing the Father in their respective sections.'' (that is when we can call ourselves true PBKs).

Also Murli says that ''prajapita brahma ki aulad Bhai-behan hote hain'' (meaning that once we become PBKs then we become brothers-sisters) and we all should become civil eyes, i.e. we should not have even a trace of lust in our eyes. Can any pbk today say with 100% certainty that he has conquered lust and has become civil eyed!!!! At least i certainly cannot say that. Baba says if anyone can say that he has conquered lust !00% then he will be put to test.

Also Baba says that ''prajapita mukh-vansha-vali brahmin sirf purshottam Sangamyug par hi hote hain'' (meaning that PBKs exist only in Confluence Age). Right now we are in the fag end of the shooting period of Kaliyug in the behad ka drama. So only when the Kaliyugi shooting ends and when the real auspicious Confluence Age of this behad ka Sangamyugi drama starts. That is when both Father and mother (who will have returned by then) will be present physically and only then we will become true PBKs. Till then BKs, PBKs are just paper titles which just describes us, how we have accepted basic knowledge and advance knowledge.

shivsena.

[arjun]

Once Baba was asked this question by one Brother, "Baba, we all children call you Baba-Baba but you call us Bhai-behan, why is it so?"

Disc. CD 228, dated 7.6.06 at Marut (Haryana)

Kisi nay kahaa: Baba, jab ShivBaba nay Brahma kay dwara Maa ka part bajaaya toh bachhon ko jab boltey thay toh meethey bachchey, meethey bachhey kahtey thay. Lekin ab jab Baap ka part chal raha hai toh Bhai Bhai kah karke boltey hain.
Baba nay kaha: Baba nay misaal diya Murli may ki lokik baap ko kahtey hain, kya? Lokik baap kabhi bachhon say kahtey hain kya mujhey Yaad karo, mujhey Yaad karo? Automatic bachhey Yaad kartey hain (kisi nay kaha-samajh jaatey hain) aur yahaan? Yahaan baar baar Baap ko kahna padtaa hai mujhey Yaad karo, mujhey Yaad karo. Fir bhi (Kisi nay kaha – bhool jaatey hain) Fir bhi nahee kartey toh ye kahaan kee baat hai? Jab Brahma Baba jeevit thay, us samay kee ye baat hai ya abhi kee baat hai? Arey, kis samay kee baat thi? Arey kuch toh bolo. Brahma Baba jab jeevit thay, us samay kee ye baat thi. Kya? Ki meethey bachchey mujhey Yaad karo, mujhey Yaad karo. Kyonki voh mujhey kahney vaala vaastavik roop tha hee nahee Baap. (Kisi nay kaha-Achhaji) Isliye baar-baar kahna padta tha ‘mujhey Yaad karo, mujhey Yaad karo’ Baar baar bhool gaye. Aur abhi? Abhi Baap toh hai lekin voh swayam sweekaar nahee kartaa ki mai Baap hoon. Gupt part hai. Isliye bachhey bhool gaye hain aur jab pratyaksh hoga toh koi ko kahnaa nahee padega ki mujhey Yaad karo. Aur na abhi kah raha hai ki mujhey Yaad karo. Pehley kahtey thay aur abhi kahtaa bhi nahee hai ki mujhey Yaad karo. Toh fark pad jata hai.

Someone asked: Baba, when ShivBaba played the part of a mother through Brahma, when he used to speak to the children, he used to say, 'sweet children, sweet children'. But now when the part of a Father is going on, he calls as ‘brother, brother’.
Baba said: Baba has given an example in the Murli that - does the lokik Father say, does the lokik Father ever tell the children – 'remember me, remember me?' The children remember automatically (Someone said – they understand) And here? Here the Father has to tell repeatedly – remember me, remember me. Even then (Someone said – they forget) Even then they do not remember. So, to which time does this pertain? Is it a matter pertaining to the period when Brahma Baba was alive or is it a matter of the present time? Arey, to which time does it pertain? Arey, speak something. It was a matter pertaining to the time when Brahma Baba was alive. What? (The matter) that 'sweet children, remember me, remember me.' Because that personality who used to say ‘me’ was not the actual form of the Father at all. (Someone said – Achcha, ji) That is why it was required to be told repeatedly – remember me, remember. They forgot repeatedly. And now? Now Father is indeed present but he himself never accepts that I am the Father. It is an incognito part. That is why the children have forgotten. And when he would get revealed, then nobody would have to be told that 'remember me'. And neither is he telling now that - 'remember me'. Earlier he used to tell and now he does not even tell that remember me. So there is a difference.

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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions. The words added within brackets in the English version have been added by the Translator to make the meaning more clear.

[shivsena]

Dear arjun Bhai and pbk brothers.

According to advance knowledge, ShivBaba played the role of mother through Lekhraj Kirpalani (brahmababa) from 1947 to 1969. During this period ShivBaba through Lekhraj Kirpalani always addressed everyone as ''baccha-bacchi''.

Now according to advance knowledge ShivBaba is playing the role of Bap-teacher-Satguru from 1976 onwards ; so why is ShivBaba addressing the students as ''Bhai-bhen''; when he plays the role of mother, He calls BKs as baccha-bacchi and when He plays the role of Bap, He calls PBKs as Bhai-Bhen. Why????????

Or was it Krishna(Brahma) who played the role of mother from 1947 to 1969, and called her bk children as baccha-bacchi and ShivBap just used his mouth to utter the Murlis(because ShivBap can never utter the words baccha-bacchi as he always sees everybody as souls); and now in Virendra Dev Dixit, ShivBap and Rambap are just observers and it is Krishna (bada Bhai-elder brother) who has been given the task to seperate out the BKs(9,00,000)-PBKs(16000) and the true brahmins(108) in the end - and only in the end when Ram=shiv, then Ramshivbaba will then start calling all his 108 children as ''Baccha".(souls)

Please give it a thought.
shivsena.